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View Full Version : plz no more archers.....



Rumpullpus
04-01-2011, 05:26 AM
ok i think there needs to be a patch about how many archers the CAI builds. its getting to the point now that the CAI builds nothing but armies of archers. its such a pain.....

iHenk
04-01-2011, 05:45 AM
oh yh i recognize this :)

Louie
04-01-2011, 06:50 AM
reloading time should be increased or size should be reduced.

Yngve
04-01-2011, 06:52 AM
Build your own archers or cavalry to counter this?

Bandit17
04-01-2011, 06:58 AM
ok i think there needs to be a patch about how many archers the CAI builds. its getting to the point now that the CAI builds nothing but armies of archers. its such a pain.....

I'm on my 2nd campaign (normal-long) and I haven't seen what your describing. On average I would guess the ai armies have a 30% archer composition.

What difficulty are you playing on as this might have something to do with this and maybe the enemy clan(s) as well.

Wazabi
04-01-2011, 08:21 AM
The more archers the AI has the better...just send in an army of katanas and yari cav.

GuardianOfBlind
04-01-2011, 08:43 AM
I make my armies also consist 30% of archers (6 out of 20). And have few units of cavalry, is no big deal to counter AI

The Great Dane
04-01-2011, 11:22 AM
I agree - most battles gets bogged down by this arrow-hell....

MidnightInsomnia
04-01-2011, 12:06 PM
An army with high proportion of archers will never beat a pure melee army with healthy amount of cavalries and heavy infantries.

Archers can't never win land battles alone, they are only for support/skirmish. If you lose to pure archer armies you are doing it wrong.

TheCuchulainn
04-01-2011, 12:17 PM
An army with high proportion of archers will never beat a pure melee army with healthy amount of cavalries and heavy infantries.

Archers can't never win land battles alone, they are only for support/skirmish. If you lose to pure archer armies you are doing it wrong.

No true, archers in this game are devistating. And if you have a full stack of archers (20 units) then it can take out infantry troops. Cavalry would eventually get bogged down in melee combat and run and melee infantry would be decimated before it even reached the front lines. I play on hard, and on average from what Ive played, one archer unit can take out a katana samurai unit within 5-10 shots. Unit sizes on Ultra. Peasant archers with little to no experience.

So lets paint this picture, 150 archers a unit times 20, thats 3000 arrows raining down on poor foot soldies. Cavalry cant outrun it either. My advice, try and ambush as much as you can. on both campaign map and battle. This will allow you to suprise the archers and break their moral quicker. Nothing is more enjoyable then routing over 2000 men and slaying every single one of them with light cavalry. Talk about a major experience jackpot.

R1DS
04-01-2011, 12:22 PM
An army with high proportion of archers will never beat a pure melee army with healthy amount of cavalries and heavy infantries.

Archers can't never win land battles alone, they are only for support/skirmish. If you lose to pure archer armies you are doing it wrong.

I aggree with this point completely, I'd fear a balanced army with 4 or 5 highly experienced archer units more than a unbalanced archer spammed army.

I dont see why people get so upset with archer heavy AI armies, they are a godsend in a typical land battle as it means your army, once engaged in melee will overwhelm them. During a siege battle on the other hand... a different story.

Proper scouting of an army will allow you to custom tailor your army as a direct counter to an AI stack, that will or is currently posing a threat to your regions. Intelligence is everything in war and and too much of any one unit is a weakness, hence the importance of unit balance and the resulting mutual support to your whole army from a correct balance of unit types and their strengths and weaknesses.

Yoshitsune
04-01-2011, 12:45 PM
If you are heavy on melee and the AI doesn't have warhorse resource handy he will go heavy archer to counter you.

MidnightInsomnia
04-01-2011, 01:18 PM
No true, archers in this game are devistating. And if you have a full stack of archers (20 units) then it can take out infantry troops. Cavalry would eventually get bogged down in melee combat and run and melee infantry would be decimated before it even reached the front lines. I play on hard, and on average from what Ive played, one archer unit can take out a katana samurai unit within 5-10 shots. Unit sizes on Ultra. Peasant archers with little to no experience.

That's impossible. One volley will kill ~10 men at a time. By the time you order all your 20 archers to rout two (at most three) katana samurai units before they are in melee range, the other melee units would have already sprinted and closed the gap.

Try it with your friend. 20 archers will never be quick enough to rout all 20 melee units, especially if they have cavalries to flank while you are busy shooting the incoming infantries.

As long as a couple melee units can engage in combat, your archers are done. Even bow samurai is only marginally stronger than boshigaru in melee.

Bikethief
04-01-2011, 01:19 PM
I definitely don't get enough cavalry when I play. I'll be chugging along fine until I reach an army that is half archer samurai. My ashigaru apparently don't like to 'fight in the shade' if you know what I mean.

Chris42899
04-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Yes. AI builds too much archers. And AI archers seem to be more effective than my own archers. Pelase CA make AI archers less powerfull and add an archer liimit for the AI.

Apotheosis
04-01-2011, 03:21 PM
The real counter to archers is naginata samurai, or katana samurai from encampment with armory add-on, or blacksmith with master armorer. or katana/yari cavalry/great guard - heavy cavalry.

no-dachi samurai, warrior monks, light cavalry, archer cavalry - all get slaughtered by mass bow ashigaru.

abandit
04-01-2011, 03:54 PM
Archers are very strong in this game. A full stack of samurai archers can beat most armies the AI throws at you.

Mr Suplex
04-01-2011, 05:47 PM
That's impossible. One volley will kill ~10 men at a time. By the time you order all your 20 archers to rout two (at most three) katana samurai units before they are in melee range, the other melee units would have already sprinted and closed the gap.

Yeah, I'm calling bull**** on that too.

Face-sploder
04-01-2011, 06:22 PM
I have the best advice EVER

buy the limited edition off e-bay and Hattori some of those arrowheads :D

works for me every time


But you really shouldn't be losing to an all archer army, If you make a nice balanced army or do some sneaking around with your ninja/geisha I'm sure you can easily counter them. In fact if you want some help play Date and become christian, that's my best advice. You could also be Buddhist Chosokabe and beat those punks at their own game :D

Whether you have the limited edition or not you should be able to beat them, heck I would saying having to fight an army like that is and advantage for you. Just sit down, think about how to overcome them and implement the proper strategy cause charging headfirst will probably fail to large numbers of peasants and focus fire.

greggbert_totalwar
04-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Even light cavalry and samauri katanas clean up archers. They are not as good agsint armored samauri. Maybe you should build the armor upgrade for the blacksmith, I think it's better than the weapon upgrade. Also running your infantry while in the loose formation and then closing ranks right before the charge works good even with the peasant spearmen.

dala
04-01-2011, 08:17 PM
naginata samurai with gold armour (14 armour total) = the most awsome archer counter, and it works against other stuff aswell aslong as u got cav to support.

Dogthinker
04-01-2011, 11:32 PM
For a laugh, I tried fielding a pure bow ashigaru archer army. It tore up the AI, every time, even against pure samurai armies.

The AI's melee units made contact, sure. But only with the first row of archers - out of four rows. It was a massacre every time. I'd lose a unit or two of my worst archers, they'd lose their whole army.

The ashigaru archers don't rout like they *should* because the general's rally ability is game breakingly effective.

I wouldn't expect this tactic to beat a human player, but it's hilarious against the AI, you don't even need to issue any orders (except Stand and Fight, and/or Rally.)

Madae
04-02-2011, 12:48 AM
I've noticed this in past TW games - Medieval 2 specifically. England always ended up building a bunch of longbowman, and I've seen full armies of them quite a few times. Can't remember how well they fared, but it can't be that effective.

Rumpullpus
04-02-2011, 04:54 AM
For a laugh, I tried fielding a pure bow ashigaru archer army. It tore up the AI, every time, even against pure samurai armies.

The AI's melee units made contact, sure. But only with the first row of archers - out of four rows. It was a massacre every time. I'd lose a unit or two of my worst archers, they'd lose their whole army.

The ashigaru archers don't rout like they *should* because the general's rally ability is game breakingly effective.

I wouldn't expect this tactic to beat a human player, but it's hilarious against the AI, you don't even need to issue any orders (except Stand and Fight, and/or Rally.)

this is what ive have been seeing. armies that are almost 80-90% bow ashigaru with like 4 different generals and thats it. its extremely annoying because they take forever to break with their generals running around everywhere.

just to be clear i dont mind archer heavy armies, but im finding more and more armies being made up of just missle troops and nothing else, its just not fun.

Jean Plantagnet
04-02-2011, 05:12 AM
The first time I encountered an all bow samurai and bow ashigaru army, my fully stack of samurai were completely destroyed. They only managed to inflict about 400 casualties before mass routing.

To beat this I simply came back with a new army that had 8 units of katana cavalry with armor upgrades.

Archer heavy armies were no longer a problem.

It does ruin the game's enjoyability though when you face so many archer heavy armies...

Bandit17
04-02-2011, 07:02 AM
naginata samurai with gold armour (14 armour total) = the most awsome archer counter, and it works against other stuff aswell aslong as u got cav to support.

Armor upgrades rock. In my current Date campaign my No-Dochi (full armor upgrades) heavy armies can tear through just about anything. I just tread carefully around cavalry heavy forces.

I still haven't encountered too many archer based forces but the few that I have ran into have all been squashed. In early game use cheap units to soak up the arrows while your shock troops crush all. Keep your general(s) close for influence.

Sainty
04-02-2011, 07:04 AM
this is what ive have been seeing. armies that are almost 80-90% bow ashigaru with like 4 different generals and thats it. its extremely annoying because they take forever to break with their generals running around everywhere.

just to be clear i dont mind archer heavy armies, but im finding more and more armies being made up of just missle troops and nothing else, its just not fun.

Its a perfect opportunity to level your horsies! Just scan ahead, handpick your army and general and then go cowabunga on them!