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Thread: "World of TOTAL WARcraft": not well liked IMO

  1. #11
    Senior Member Sergeant Imaloserbaby's Avatar
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    obviously a troll

  2. #12
    Moderator Master and Commander Hidden Gunman's Avatar
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    I've had more than enough of my taste for realism, and although I enjoyed it, TW doesn't give me a limp or aches in cold weather.

    I'll say it again, it's not perfect, it needs tweaks here and there, but the avi progression system is a blend of a number of game styles, but it isn't a sim.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Major icamefromouterspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedog View Post
    Thank you for your input people!!!

    The idea was not move past his avatar but kill it, and it well should have died outright, with my survivors moving on.

    Immunity to spears is ridiculous. You are trying to make a skill at something like defending against 1 or 2 people with spears work like a general immunity to spears and that is ridiculous. Being good at defending yourself or well armored is reflected in the armor stat or the melee defense stat. Those stats then factor in force strength. When you code as a separate skill it works like a magic potion that makes you immune. When you back it with some magic hit point retainer juice and yea sure 30 vs 175 on open ground! we can do it!

    Think about the physics for a moment. 1000 pounds of horse and rider are not stopping because your friend has your back, that is as silly as not wearing your seat belt because you are just going to hold on tight instead.
    and if they are deep enough in formation, you are not gonna avoid all the points because of your immunity to spears lvl 8 action.

    I think the problem may be created by the fact that this version of total war cannot decide if yari are spear or pike troops.
    So for middle ground they give them spear wall ability which magically makes their yari a realistic (historic)15-20 feet long phalanx style weapon. Open the ranks, and now they are magically weilding the 6-8 foot version you can use in man on man combat. Real life does not work that way. They went to the battle with only 1 yari folks.

    To be a proper 10 man deep phalanx, 150 ashigaru shoulder to shoulder and ten men deep is a line thinner than the length of a single yari.

    In total world of warcraft I have seen them stop huge charges like a brick wall. 1 person deep of yari hero. It is fantasy and that is a simple fact of physics, not warfare.

    I can admire those people who will admit to the tweeks in the game, because that is what this is about, but I would like to ask the honest fans of the game, and history, to put aside how much they like leveling up, and skill trees, and world of warcraft to be honest about what I am talking about.

    It is an issue of realism created by an attempt to allow people to lvl up or customize their units, and more importantly, form them as they wish. But in doing so they created realism fails. That is a fact. The brazen ones shameless admit themselves, like immunity to spears. The other ones take a little insight and total war experience to notice, like the "needs improvement" fatigue system. I can make a post on that one thing.
    It took me a while, but it doesnt seem like your complaining about immunity to spears (btw your idea of what the immunity to spears ability does is wrong), your complaining about spear units being overly effective at blocking charges. Which maybe has some merit. The spearwall formation should probably be deeper, maybe 3-4 ranks deep looks more believable.... But the game also has to limit the number of units that can be shown on screen. These are technical limitations of the game. Even though spearwalls are only 2 ranks deep, I still see it being effective. These are warriors on a stable footing who are ready for a head on charge. These aren't just some guys hangingout standing on the balls of their feet drinking soda.

    If you actually watch a katana cav charge straight into a spearwall you will see them knock over several of the yari infantry, just they wont plow through them because the horses on the frontlines are also falling over as theyre being impaled with giant sticks.

    As far seemingly small units blocking charges of entire cav units, you need to spread your cav unit out, secondly you want to avoid even some of your cav getting blocked by spear units. Men in a unit won't easily split up, they try to stay together and stay organized. The issue here isnt that a small unit is actually stopping 40 horses at full speed, its that the men riding the horses are telling their horses to slow down... additionally no living animal is going to run full speed into a large stick pointing right at them waiting to impale it through the chest. Instead of saying "how can these spearwalls stop these horses" you should be saying "how are these horsemen getting their horses to actually run to their certain death?"
    Last edited by icamefromouterspace; 06-12-2011 at 09:16 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Sergeant Imaloserbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icamefromouterspace View Post
    additionally no living animal is going to run full speed into a large stick pointing right at them waiting to impale it through the chest.
    of course they do

  5. #15
    Banned Captain blenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icamefromouterspace View Post
    .. additionally no living animal is going to run full speed into a large stick pointing right at them waiting to impale it through the chest.
    Did you ever see horseman place cloth over the horses eyes? They do that before the charge and the ''animal'' keeps going, hits a spear and still keeps going for a while at least, while the spearmen... well lets just say he wont be going home...

  6. #16
    Senior Member Lieutenant AnjinSan's Avatar
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    Not to mention war horses weren't just beasts to be ridden. There were trained since birth to be fighting machines cleaving heads left and right with their hoofs. They didn't simply just stand there and obey orders.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedog View Post
    2. Running faster than is humanly possible.
    4. Accuracy beyond the capabilities of a weapon, namely matchlock.
    7. Troops that function without any kind of fatigue.
    8. More "hit-points". In fact "hit-points" in general are fantasy.
    9. Armor far superior than any technology of the day can create.
    10. Samurai wielding virtual "light-sabers".
    Although I agree with some of the items on your list these I find are acceptable.

    2. Ever join cross country? They train us to run faster over a long distance, teaching us breathing techniques and even how to properly kick our feet out while running to use the least amount of energy possible while maintaining a certain speed.

    4. The base accuracy in the game is purely that, base accuracy. Someone can hand my sister a matchlock and because she never fired a matchlock in her life, she probably won't know how point, aim, and shoot. The training matchlock ashigaru, samurai, and monks may be different but yeah in the end the gun is capped at a certain accuracy so I can see where your argument here would be valid.

    7. Are you talking about second wind? Because if you're talking about increasing the skill points of fatique resistance that is still considered realistic when someone learns how to better control their stamina and gains it as well through experience.

    8. I don't think hit points are fantasy. I'm pretty sure Muhammad Ali can take more punches than my grandma. And sure a punch is different from a stab wound but still, some guys can still take more bullets than others. Example: Matchlock bullet goes through skinny guy more easily, causing fatal exit wound. Tough muscle guy is thicker in general, matchlock bullet fails to go through his body and create same exit wound therefore this dude lives to fight on. And I understand there are certain areas of our bodies that would cause a fatality so in a game this should be given a percentage.

    9. Mass produced armour is less superior in those days than carefully handcrafted armour using limited and rare materials of that day. I can give you a Kendo outfit made of leather and thick cloth but my rich cousin might be able to afford an armour suit made by tying plates of metal together.

    10. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this one.
    Those of us who face reality, have given up. Those of us who pursue dreams, fight on.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Moore View Post
    4. The base accuracy in the game is purely that, base accuracy. Someone can hand my sister a matchlock and because she never fired a matchlock in her life, she probably won't know how point, aim, and shoot. The training matchlock ashigaru, samurai, and monks may be different but yeah in the end the gun is capped at a certain accuracy so I can see where your argument here would be valid.
    Matchlocks were a revolution in warfare precisely because they they needed far less training to be really effective compared to other weapons. You really could just hand one to your sister and have her be effective in a fairly short time (actually women are generally better marksmen than men). Compare that to the longbow which is a weapon that is known for requiring regular training to be really effective. You can make an argument that being an expert with longbows could let you fire more quickly, accurately and use heavier more powerful bows and so on. But there is more of a built in limit with things like matchlocks.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sergeant Imaloserbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamon View Post
    (actually women are generally better marksmen than men).
    where do people come up with **** like this? 99% of stats are made up on the spot? something like that

  10. #20
    Senior Member Major icamefromouterspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaloserbaby View Post
    where do people come up with **** like this? 99% of stats are made up on the spot? something like that
    And about 90% of all stats can be made to say whatever you want.. 85% of the time.

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