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Thread: Using Spartan Hoplites effectively.

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel The Kestrel's Avatar
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    Oh sorry, yes I did mean cohorts.

    The Spartans did manage to pull off the elite military, but they also only had one city to worry about. You will need to concentrate on your entire empire. This project will be extremely challenging, especially since at the beginning you won't even be able to recruit them at most cities.

  2. #12
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    All good points, I will be hiring merc archers, cavalry, etc. to support the Spartan army as I will not be able to crank out that many at first. I will be using mercs throughout the entire campaign as support as well. During the first part of the game I will focus solely on economics to be able to fund them as well as hiring lesser troops in the beginning. After enslaving enough cities with mercs and lesser Greek troops I will be able to upgrade my two cities enough to be able to produce the Spartans. As for cost and upkeep yes they are expensive, but they are worth every penny in combat(or every denari). I'm also considering employing an onager into combat, like one for every general's army. Just to cause a bit of chaos in enemy ranks and cause them to rout faster. I was wondering: Is it better to use flaming rocks or just rocks? I know the flaming kind reduces accuracy a bunch and also causes more damage, but what are the odds that it will hit my own troops? If there is a decent chance it will destroy Spartans then it is not worth the risk but if it is rare then it would be a calculated risk.
    Last edited by EricMiller; 05-26-2012 at 11:46 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Colonel The Kestrel's Avatar
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    Onagers are really for breaking down walls so that sieges happen in one turn (remember to destroy the towers too; they will destroy phalanxes at high level fortifications). If you must use them against troops, I seem to remember fire was best for massed infantry and rocks were best for cavalry. Don't even bother shooting quick units or skirmishers, now hitting a testudo with fire...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Major Che's Avatar
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    A lot of (veteran?) players say that the TW games are too easy. Therefore, I reckon your Spartan idea might be a satisfying game for people who want more of a challenge.

    BTW, if I remember correctly, the Spartans often or always had auxiliary soldiers who were not Spartans, fighting alongside them. Certainly at the Battle of Thermopylae, soldiers from other cities fought alongside them.
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    Ya you're right i will be using other forces as well to support my Spartan Army, mostly mercenaries but other lesser Greek troops as well. The challenge will be in raising the mostly Spartan army in the first place and will be a good challenge for me, which is why I like the idea of doing it. I will be using mostly mercenaries because you can send them in first and if they win then great, but I don't really mind losing them either. They will mostly serve to thin the enemy ranks before they reach the Spartans.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Colonel flamingryu30's Avatar
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    My advice is to remember to use cavalry heck you could even use Greek Cav to a degree now I know everyone prob gonna be all like "Oh don't do that Greek Cav sucks it's the worst in the game!" But the thing is if you use your cavalry tactically even the Greek Cav are good. Now don't think I am saying always just rush in some Greek Cav cuz I'm not but they are good for getting rid of siege equipment and missile troops and heck maybe a well placed hammer and anvil move here and there but ya I have used them well that way just you have to know how to use your troops.

  7. #17
    Member Lance Corporal aceskipper's Avatar
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    1. If in phalanx formation, most of the missiles will just hit the shields.

    2. Nah, don't put them in a v formation by a wall. You would think that the AI would just send in units one at a time and get them slaughtered but most of the units are sent in at once and they manage to force your units back and gain lots of space. It's ok if they send cavalry in first but if you are against a good unit for example the legionary first cohort, you will lose. The best thing to do is to send all your men half way through the breach making it more confined which means less enemies and less space to attack. Just make sure you are in defensive mode because the last thing you want is all ypour men running outside the walls just to be slaughtered.

    3. If you have a big enough army you don't need to worry.
    "Bonaparte has often made his boast that our fleet would be worn out by keeping the sea and that his was kept in order and increasing by staying in port; but know he finds, I fancy, if Emperors hear the truth, that his fleet suffers more in a night than ours in one year."
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Sergeant Maximusdecimusmeridius's Avatar
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    The "Spartan" part of the Spartan army (the Spartiates) was actually very small compared to the rest of the army, which I think was composed of the slave classes. Those could probably be represented by militia hoplites in RTW. The actual number of spartiates was always in decline during the time period of RTW and they were basically an outdated soldier after the rise of the macedonian phalanx (and even before that).

  9. #19
    Moderator Major Corpius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricMiller View Post
    All good points, I will be hiring merc archers, cavalry, etc. to support the Spartan army as I will not be able to crank out that many at first. I will be using mercs throughout the entire campaign as support as well. During the first part of the game I will focus solely on economics to be able to fund them as well as hiring lesser troops in the beginning. After enslaving enough cities with mercs and lesser Greek troops I will be able to upgrade my two cities enough to be able to produce the Spartans. As for cost and upkeep yes they are expensive, but they are worth every penny in combat(or every denari). I'm also considering employing an onager into combat, like one for every general's army. Just to cause a bit of chaos in enemy ranks and cause them to rout faster. I was wondering: Is it better to use flaming rocks or just rocks? I know the flaming kind reduces accuracy a bunch and also causes more damage, but what are the odds that it will hit my own troops? If there is a decent chance it will destroy Spartans then it is not worth the risk but if it is rare then it would be a calculated risk.
    I shamelessly took your idea and am currently playing a greek cities campaign with field armies consiting of one general (an "of sparta" familiy member obviously) 18 spartan hoplites and 1 greek cavalry for rout hunting purposes; just being the one cavalry unit their tactical value is next to nothing anyway. Some greatly expierenced from the recruiting city in Sparta thanks to the temple of Nike bonusses.

    I have no finanical problems whatsoever, the economy in RTW is neigh indestructible anyway, let alone when starting with the Greeks. Even "bought" me some settlements, Athens, Massila, Cyrene and Kydonia all fell to my bribes. (Massila was "re-bought" twice after the britons bribed it from me... twice) Only using militia -and hoplites in defence of my cities. Ruined the Roman's factions' day by having a constant stream of spies who've kept the scripted plague alive through out Italy for so long the largest city has less than 3000 inhabitants. Both Julian starting regions are down to the 400 minimum.

    Early republican Roman forces don't stand a chance against a decent size spartan hoplites force. I've had battles killing over 4000 romans and losing barely 100 spartans. Got a steady stream of "reinforcements" just a few turns behind the main force to replenish losses and then send the remaning units back to sparta/syracuse for retraining. Early game my naval strategy paid off handsomely, I recommend that to be one of your early focus points, open ports are vital.

    Now I just sieged plague wrecked Croton with my second field army, my first is working their way up in Illyria, and will sweep into Italy from the north.
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  10. #20
    Junior Member Private chenshas's Avatar
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    actualy with the selucids mix catapratchs with pikemen and archers to togther the perfect army

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