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Thread: Auxiliary Units

  1. #11
    Senior Member Captain BrahimBug's Avatar
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    Yeah I think a regional recruitment system would work well for Auxiliary troops. I think that some regions should give you the option to recruit a unit type regardless of what faction you are playing. So no matter who you conquer Greece with, you should be able to recruit Hoplite Militia from Greek cities and so forth. And if you recruit a legionnaire unit in a Germanic province that you have conquered, it should say 'Germanic Legionnaire' and they should get some bonuses available to Germanic units such as 'bonus fighting in winter' and so on. I think this will add more depth and force you to think about where you recruit and how you recruit.
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  2. #12
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    We saw the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. So the timeline goes far enough to show Augustus' Horse Guards. As far as I know, they have been germans but not batavians exclusively. And under Augustus reign, they have been just about 500-1000 men strong. So ingame they should be limited to 1 or 2 elite units, which can be just deployed together with the emperor himself.

    Unlike the praetorians. They had limited numbers, too (9 cohorts). But they could accompany other members of the caesarian family, e.g. about 4-6 praetorian cohorts fought with Germanicus.
    Last edited by UsulDaNeriak; 03-08-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sergeant Abzeblhiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCanute View Post
    As mentioned by others, you should be able to recruit exclusive auxiliary units only in the tribal or cultural regions you conquer.
    I disagree. You should be able to recruit auxiliary/mercenaries of tribal regions close to area YOUR ARMY is. Caesar didn't conquer Germany (neither Gaul at that moment) but had germanic mercenaries with him.
    "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.", Isaac Asimov, Foundation.

  4. #14

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    As discussed in the thread about regional units a regional system would indeed work best. It would also dictate in which regions you can recruit mercenaries. It is certainly not mutually exclusive...

    BTW mercenary units should replenish themselves like recruited units, albeight slower as it is partly historically accurate and eases also micro.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abzeblhiom View Post
    I disagree. You should be able to recruit auxiliary/mercenaries of tribal regions close to area YOUR ARMY is. Caesar didn't conquer Germany (neither Gaul at that moment) but had germanic mercenaries with him.
    We should not mix up auxiliaries and mercenaries here. Actually the situation was even more complex:

    socii - units of italian allies, pretty similar to roman units, in use until 90 BC
    allies - units or even complete armies of allies and client kingdoms, used local equipment. They were not recruited but requested.
    auxilia - units of pregerine citizens of conquered cities and tribes outside of Italy or roman colonies, replaced the socii but have been already available earlier to a minor extent, used local equipment and often peregrine leaders until early empire
    numeri - took over the role of the auxiliaries, when they became more and more standardized in the mid of the 1st century AD; often hired from outside the empire
    mercenaries - where available in all eras and regions. The difference between numeri and mercenaries is not always distinct.

    So Caesars cavalry of the Aedui have been allies, light infantry from Gallia Narbonensis or Tarraconenesis have been auxilia and Caesars early german cavalry have been mercenaries. The way, these different groups have been recruited / hired was fully different. I doubt CA will implement such a diverse authentic recruitment system, even if it would be great. But i expect a clear difference between mercenaries and auxilia, because this was already inplemented in Rome 1.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sergeant Abzeblhiom's Avatar
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    I totally agree UsulDaNeriak but I simplified to be quick. I try to not forget it is a game and gameplay have to be simpler than reality. I think the system of Rome 1, extend to area and not only region with slow replenishment is the way to go.
    "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.", Isaac Asimov, Foundation.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abzeblhiom View Post
    I think the system of Rome 1, extend to area and not only region with slow replenishment is the way to go.
    I hope CA looks to the great mods of RTW and their different AoR-systems.
    Legions - just in areas, which are romanized, which is a feature and needs player decisions / actions.
    socii / auxilia - recruitable just in the conquered areas they were available historically
    mercenaries / numeri - available based on larger areas/pools also from not conquered regions.

    However I would like to see a better implementation of allied troops, e.g. think about the situation when Mithradates coming from Minor Asia rescued Caesar in Egypt. Caesar did not recruit these guys, he just asked for them (diplomacy?). I have read, that in Rome 2 you can tell your allies, where to attack and when. Now that comes close.
    Last edited by UsulDaNeriak; 03-08-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Private KingCanute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abzeblhiom View Post
    I disagree. You should be able to recruit auxiliary/mercenaries of tribal regions close to area YOUR ARMY is. Caesar didn't conquer Germany (neither Gaul at that moment) but had germanic mercenaries with him.
    I'm talking about Auxilliaries and not mercenaries. They are two completely different animals. Auxiliary troops were organized, equipped and trained according to roman military doctrine and very often lead by Roman officers. During battle they were deployed alongside the Legions. Furthermore they had to serve in their units for 25 years. Caesar would not have been able to recruit auxiliaries during his campaigns in Gaul but only mercenaries or allied tribal warriors. Mercenaries were equipped according to local military tradition and used their own tactics and fighting stiles. Mercenaries were also notoriously known for their wavering loyalties and shifting sides during campaigns. Which meant that generals using mercenaries would often, but not always, restrict the use of mercenaries to simple tactical maneuvers.

    PS: Please excuse me for this delayed posting...still relevant though. My quick reply sessions keeps timing out.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Major-General Green Jacket's Avatar
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    i hope they have the historical variation of auxiliaries, from mercianaries to troops simply raised outside of rome. Even some being very similarly equipped to roman legions.

    Not many people actually know this but after the Marian reforms many roman citizens actually joined the auxiliaries instead of the legions, you could have certain almost identicle to legion auxiliaries raised in rome itself. Once your terms of service where over in the auxiliaries you became a citizen and most troops children would have instead joined the auxiliaries even though they would have had the opportunity to join the legions. During the roman period literally anyone could join the auxiliaries, citizen or not or even those outside of the empire, while legions where citizen exclusive, auxiliaries should have a massive amount of variety.

    Once reforms meant that everyone living in the empire where now roman citizens the legions became almost identical to auxiliaries, with the two eventually being merged.
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  10. #20
    Moderator Master and Commander daelin4's Avatar
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    @ KingCanute
    Your idea of auxiliaries and mercenaries being "two different animals is highly problematic. The only constant quality of auxiliaries was the fact that they were non-citizen (specifically peregrini, or non-citizen free men, re not slaves) components to the army- a trait that also applies to mercenaries. Furthermore, you are ignoring the factor of change- the meaning of auxilia originally composed of non-citizen Italian legions as treaty obligations and therein lay the origins of their differences; non-citizen also does not exclude non-Italian forces that also came under military alliance and/or client status that gave contingents as part of tributary fulfilment. These included troops that are "hired on" and lead by their own commanders, such as Gallic and German warbands lead by chieftains' sons as part of an overseas career to further personal and tribal reputation. Many of these forces had more mercenary qualities, and yet were firmly held within the sphere of auxilia.
    As for mercenaries being "notorious" for shifting loyalties, it is ironic that the Italian Socii, of which you would firmly hold into the auxiliaries category, rebelled to the extent that we have the Social War, over matters pertaining to social justice, whereas rebellions of similar nature never occurred amongst Rome's non-Italian forces. The only exception were foederati tribes like the Visigoths, a matter that occurred centuries later and of completely different context. Your ideas of mercenaries are far too generalized and romanticized.
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