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Thread: Hoplites are just useless...

  1. #51
    Junior Member Private Mads_00's Avatar
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    Well, they're not useless per se - but they're not exactly doing what they're supposed to be doing either =)

    I've played 50 turns as Macedon so far, and i trust my Hoplites to defend anything really. If used defensively the phalanx actually does work, but the flanks have to be very well protected. A narrow street for example - stick 2 units of hoplites in there side by side, and noone is ever getting through it.

    When deployed offensively the phalanx serves no purpose whatsoever. 2 possible outcomes here, the Hoplites break formation and charge(they're actually quite effective this way, their huge defense means they take very little losses and are near impossible to rout if friendy units are backing them up) OR, you march them into the enemy in phalanx and they become enveloped and die. So on the offense i never touch the phalanx button of the hoplites. Pikes are effective and work well in my opinion though, and are slowly taking over as the core of my army.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Master and Commander Clover's Avatar
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    You would be pretty useless too if you had to fight the way they do in R2TW. Underhanded, no overlapping shields, lots of space, massive clipping of weapons into your men's fronts and backs from their comrades.. If the Athenians fought Marathon like this, surely they brought some machine guns to help..
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Master and Commander daelin4's Avatar
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    To the Greeks the phalanx was simply a term to denote a close-order of hoplites together. Close enough to enable overlapping of shields. That's abut the strictest one can get to a narrow definition. The Greeks themselves seemed to have differed in their method of engagement- some charged and risked losing cohesion; the Spartans seemed to favour the steady advance that we see in RTW. The primary purpose of the phalanx was simply close order for protection.

    It seems that, like so many overlapping terms used in Rome2, hoplites and their formation seemed to be towards a more generalized spear infantry sort of use. Pikemen are now the more stereotypical phalanx units we all know and love.

    In a way having them charge forward while "out" of a phalanx formation makes sense, since charging is quite hard to pull off with everyone trying to move at the exact same pace. Perhaps this is why some armies like the Spartans preferred a slow and steady advance. It made more sense since it maximized preservation of unit cohesion. It also allows the entire group to brace against any charges.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Corporal
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    well hoplites are strong if they are in phalanx formation i routed 10 stack garrison with 4 hoplite units lost only 10 men so dont talk about weak hoplites because they are strong

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovec1990 View Post
    well hoplites are strong if they are in phalanx formation i routed 10 stack garrison with 4 hoplite units lost only 10 men so dont talk about weak hoplites because they are strong
    What were your Hoplites fighting against? Levies and slingers?

    Don't mean to be a ****, but currently a Hoplite in Phalanx formation, such as a Carthaginian Late Hoplite, can't hold it's own against a similar cost/stats melee unit. They lose to Karian axeman and swordsman in a front on engagement.

    From the custom battle testing I've done, you have a slight chance of winning if you, charge then Phalanx, yet have a better chance just charging and fighting. It needs to be buffed and so does Shield Wall.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Master and Commander
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    They should of beta tested this game large scale. Its 2013. CA needs to realise that. Its not Sega. Company of heroes 2 was beta tested. And it turned out way better than it would have. I played the beta of that from the beginning.

  7. #57
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    Default Not useless

    First of all, in history Hoplites did not stay in formation while charging. They ran at a full sprint and hit the enemy head on. Then they would keep shoving at eachother while they were lining up in their phalanx. They kept shoving at eachothers backs. So if you want the Hoplites to go into offensive, simply just charge them and when they collide with the
    Enemy then click orders to go into a phalanx. It's simple and effective.

  8. #58
    Member Lance Corporal Akos's Avatar
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    Did you try to push someone with an aspis, while someone else pushes (or tries to) your back with an aspis and use your spear at the same time?
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  9. #59
    Senior Member Brigadier Thorien Kell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleomenesiii View Post
    First of all, in history ....
    You're replying to debate which happened two years ago.

    Some participants may be dead by now, or they could move to other city, but they most certainly don't play rome 2 any more.

    Just ...Don't do that.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Sergeant Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorien Kell View Post
    You're replying to debate which happened two years ago.

    Some participants may be dead by now, or they could move to other city, but they most certainly don't play rome 2 any more.

    Just ...Don't do that.
    That's a bit dramatic don't you think? I agree though, how and why do you people end up in debates that were long gone already? This debate was also pre-EE Rome was a totally different game back than.

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