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Cheats Abusing Funding limits in match made Games

ZenkaiZenkai Junior MemberPosts: 6Registered Users
Ive been running into alot of players abusing the funds to make victory no sweat. I get a match made battle with a fund of 5000$ so small.

Before the match starts and the countdown is almost finished these players add units increasing above budget but the game continues in and on the battlefield there rocking 5 units of katana samurai nagari spearman....bow samurai then to top it off yari cavalry and not just 1 or 2 its 3-5.

No wai this is below or on 5000$ exact and when I excused the guy of cheating, he just laughed and continued on arguing he didnt develop the game so his gona abuse it.

The one guy recent which is gona make me stop playing multiplayer till this is fixed because No point playing cheats over and over was GeneralMad I do have a replay of his over budget army.

TL: DR Players abusing Fund budget to Slaughter in match made battles.
Post edited by Zenkai on
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Comments

  • Krisko!Krisko! Junior Member Posts: 9Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    If you think that the player is cheating, warn them at the start that as the game is run through steamworks with VAC (Valve Anti Cheat), a ban would be very permanent.

    Then, at the end of the battle (if he hasn't left beforhand), save the replay and make a folder of suspected cheaters. Wait a few days to see if CA has set up some sort of a report-cheaters function, and if not, send an enquiry to customer support. Just make sure you don't name names on the forum.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I thought people could only get banned for trying to alter stats to cheat not abusing bugs am I wrong? Not that I cheat anyway abusing bugs, just asking. :)
  • AggonyLion{Leo}AggonyLion{Leo} Junior Member Posts: 28Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Zenkai wrote: »
    Ive been running into alot of players abusing the funds to make victory no sweat. I get a match made battle with a fund of 5000$ so small.

    Before the match starts and the countdown is almost finished these players add units increasing above budget but the game continues in and on the battlefield there rocking 5 units of katana samurai nagari spearman....bow samurai then to top it off yari cavalry and not just 1 or 2 its 3-5.

    No wai this is below or on 5000$ exact and when I excused the guy of cheating, he just laughed and continued on arguing he didnt develop the game so his gona abuse it.

    The one guy recent which is gona make me stop playing multiplayer till this is fixed because No point playing cheats over and over was GeneralMad I do have a replay of his over budget army.

    TL: DR Players abusing Fund budget to Slaughter in match made battles.

    Best thing you can do Zenkai is play normal mp battles 1v1 or 2v2 until you have unlocked enough units and upgrades you think you can use in the match made battles :) also you can pick an army and save it before you join or host a match made battle as well ;)
  • Confused JohnnyConfused Johnny Member Posts: 78Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I had the same thing last night, over and over and over. Man, i was sick of the hackers in NTW, but here with XP, ranking up etc its so much more annoying.

    All i could afford was 3 Bow Ashigaru, 4 Yari Ashigaru and 2 Light Cav, my opponent had 4 Bow Ashigaru, 4 Yari Ashigaru, 2 Light Cav, 1 Yari Cav, 1 No'Dachi Samurai, 1 Katana Samurai and 2 Yari Samurai!

    If S2TW has Valve Anti Cheat, why isnt it doing anything? I literally had it happen in 6 battles in a row, the 7th battle the guy i played must have had coz when he saw my army he said "Hmmm, someone whos armies are eventually same size as mine".

    I hope they sort it soon, coz this coupled with the Dishonourable General bug is really killing off the MP for me and my friends, and its the MP that we have heard so much about. I dont wanna compare with ETW release, its not even close to that yet, but it is on the same lines coz whilst the game doesnt CTD etc, these things (to me at least) are considered gamebreakers!
    I refuse to engage in a battle of wits as i dont take advantage of the handicapped!
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,068
    edited March 2011
    If anyone can post us repro steps as to how this issue is happening feel free to post.

    Dave B
  • L'Ost de MalpesteL'Ost de Malpeste Senior Member Posts: 121Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    The cheaters won't tell, Dave :)

    I think my first mp game was against a cheater yesterday. He used 1700 men (2 cav, something like 5 archers, at least 4-5 yari ashigaru + at least 3 katana "empire spirit" or something) against my proud army of 1100 men on a 5000 budget. I'm not sure 5000 allows you to pull an army like this.

    Result is heroïc victory against this nooblet, I just steamrolled him :) :) :)

    I saved the replay, I have to watch it just to be sure.
  • Sirius 21Sirius 21 Senior Member Palermo, ItalyPosts: 1,619Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    If anyone can post us repro steps as to how this issue is happening feel free to post.

    Dave B
    If I understand correctly the OP, the steps would be:
    - join a match made battle
    - prepare your army
    - click "ready" and wait for the other player to do it
    - when the countdown is almost finished, add some troops

    The OP states that the game will let you use those troops added during the countdown in the actual battlefield.
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  • SkurkanasSkurkanas Senior Member Posts: 533Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Heh. Actually i just had a game against Zenkai, and we both accused the respective other of abusing this bug :D

    Somehow in 5k battles, you dont get prohibited from modifying your army even when the clock is ticking. It's important to have a 5k fund battle here. It's the only setup where i've seen this.
    I remembered this thread, saw him having -4k funds and wildly bought additional units too.

    However, the game did not start (even though the clock was at 0) until we both had reduced the unit count below the fund limit (It was sort of a mexican stand off with each of us reducing the unit count one by one, while checking the others fund level)

    Then again, we changed our army setups pretty fast. The game might start if no changes are made for a while
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  • CraigTWCraigTW Lead Community Manager, The Creative Assembly Dat Horsham doePosts: 1,141Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff, Tools Admin, Cakes!, SuperAdmin, Community Team
    edited March 2011
    Re-opened. Please could anyone encountering this issue save replays for us and detail how and when they experienced it.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,068
    edited March 2011
    Hi everyone here is how you cansend us your replays.

    1. Please send your steam dumps to customersupportuk@soe.sega.co.uk
    2.Replays can be found here C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR _NAME\Application Data\The Creative Assembly\Shogun2\replays
    3. In the subject box please put the title of the thread and REPLAYS . EXP Cheats Abusing Funding limits in match made Games (Steam.dmp files)
    4. Please Zip any files to save space
    5. Add any additional details and a link to the original forum post.

    Thanks

    Dave B
  • Lord BladeLord Blade Junior Member Posts: 12Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    You set up your armies, and go into a match.
    When the game is about to start, you can still add units to your army. While this will move your army size up to higher levels, it won't stop the game that's about to commence, or give you a new opponent who matches your new army size.

    So basically anyone can do it, because the game doesn't cancel the battle when changes are made to the armies… and it doesn't stop you facing someone who you're now massively overpowering.

    That needs to be fixed. If someone makes any army changes, it should cancel the battle.
  • daniudaniu Senior Member Posts: 2,081Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Can't you just prevent going over the funds limit once the countdown has started?
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,068
    edited March 2011
    Lord Blade wrote: »
    You set up your armies, and go into a match.
    When the game is about to start, you can still add units to your army. While this will move your army size up to higher levels, it won't stop the game that's about to commence, or give you a new opponent who matches your new army size.

    So basically anyone can do it, because the game doesn't cancel the battle when changes are made to the armies… and it doesn't stop you facing someone who you're now massively overpowering.

    That needs to be fixed. If someone makes any army changes, it should cancel the battle.

    Thank you for the comment Lord Blade, However we do have a system in place that removes all units that take you over the funds limit automatically. Thus yes it will enter you into battle, however you will never have any more units than the opponent can field. I have personally tested this today.


    Dainu, We do indeed have a system that will unready you if you go over the limit, the exploit would be doing it with 1-2 seconds left, which the removal of units system then catches.

    Thank you for all the feedback so far guys
  • NamuNamu Junior Member Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    So you're saying you have fixed the problem? Or simply saying you have implimented a system that is not functioning as it should?
  • BunzaeBunzae Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Is the amount of funds you actually get in a battle always the same? Because sometimes when i enter in a game (i noticed its always when its someone the same rank as me) i get a glorious amount of funds, almost being able to completely fill up all my army slots. I THINK the other guy also gets a similar amount of funds because his army is also big. *these are ranked games btw


    Maybe you just joined a game with increased funds and and you didn't notice it.
  • Confused JohnnyConfused Johnny Member Posts: 78Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Chivalry wrote: »
    Thank you for the comment Lord Blade, However we do have a system in place that removes all units that take you over the funds limit automatically. Thus yes it will enter you into battle, however you will never have any more units than the opponent can field. I have personally tested this today.


    Dainu, We do indeed have a system that will unready you if you go over the limit, the exploit would be doing it with 1-2 seconds left, which the removal of units system then catches.

    Thank you for all the feedback so far guys

    Lemme get this straight, so your saying it doesnt happen, or that it solves itself, coz both are WRONG. Me and a clan mate tested this earlier, after your 2nd "patch" (which hasnt fixed anything major btw, so nice work there). He chose an army that stayed within the 5k limit, i fielded 4 Light Cav, 4 Yari Samurai, 3 Bow Ashigaru, 4 Yari Ashigaru and 3 of my Veteran units at 750 each, which obviously costs more than 5k in total.

    Thank you for thanking us for our feedback, but id rather be thanked by having a game from you guys that actually does what it claims to do, not some wash your mouth out with soap and water.-CraigTW
    I refuse to engage in a battle of wits as i dont take advantage of the handicapped!
  • Undesired_HeroUndesired_Hero Senior Member Posts: 486Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I have been a victim of cheaters. I need to ****yze the gameplay clip i made. I record all my games
  • WalkerWalker Member Posts: 76Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    This is really worrying... I've let the [TWC] clan know of this issue and they should report on it if they see it. For now I hope a solution is being worked out.
  • GhostReaperSixGhostReaperSix Member Posts: 55Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I just quit out of a matched game because the other player had 16 units that I could spot by the one minute mark. The game was 5000 gold limit. I could afford a general, a few katana samurai and a few other units.

    I don't know the exact composition of the enemy army, because for some reason my replays fail to load. I do remember:

    4 katana samurai, 1 bowman, 1 flint lock, 2 cavalry, general, and 8 other units. The cheapest units I see are 350 gold... so we can see just between the katana samurai is 3000 gold, the 2 cavalry and a bowman is another 1000, the general is at least 500, so that leaves 500 gold for a flintlock, and 8 other units????

    MP is broken.
  • Psycho VPsycho V Registered User Posts: 460Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I just quit out of a matched game because the other player had 16 units that I could spot by the one minute mark. The game was 5000 gold limit. I could afford a general, a few katana samurai and a few other units.

    I don't know the exact composition of the enemy army, because for some reason my replays fail to load. I do remember:

    4 katana samurai, 1 bowman, 1 flint lock, 2 cavalry, general, and 8 other units. The cheapest units I see are 350 gold... so we can see just between the katana samurai is 3000 gold, the 2 cavalry and a bowman is another 1000, the general is at least 500, so that leaves 500 gold for a flintlock, and 8 other units????

    MP is broken.

    Hmmm ... may be possible with two cost reduction avatars if the Katana were the only samurai units.
    "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE!" - (John Donne, 1572 – 1631, Meditation 17)
  • Squid DivisionSquid Division Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Guh, just happened to me. Guy had twice as many units as I did, all veterans too. If it happens again, I'm not going to bother playing MP anymore until it is for sure fixed. Sent an email in too.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,068
    edited March 2011
    I'm sorry for the shorter reply earlier chaps, I will be testing this from every possible angle all of today to try and reproduce it and find the cause. If anyone has any infomation on exactly (and Please make it as specific as possible) on how they are achieving this. please PM me with details, I'll track it down asap.
  • Stowelly CAStowelly CA Creative Assembly Posts: 32CA Staff
    edited March 2011
    There are a number of measures in place to ensure that even using memory hacks that a user wont be able to get into the battle with more units than the specified funds allow. even in the rare cases that it is possible for a user to display that their army has negative funds in their army the game will remove units until the funds are back within the specified limit before the battle actually begins.

    if this is not the case we really need to have replays sent to us of such battles to verify this is happening. and also as a few people in this thread have said that they can reproduce this, would they be willing to join a battle with myself or Chivalry today so that we can witness this happening?

    thanks
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • Undesired_HeroUndesired_Hero Senior Member Posts: 486Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I got vicitm of a bug not long ago that said i had to chose another army cause it was already in use, could not press ready but others could.
    The timer started counting down and to my surprise i could still add units so i had like 20 and the timer was still counting down for game start.
    But i didn't want to cheat so i didn't do it.
  • daniudaniu Senior Member Posts: 2,081Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Should be pretty easy to recalculate funds at battle start (ie after loading into 3D finished) once more for each player and give an immediate win to the other side without bothering to even fight the battle anymore.
    And while you're at it, can you add VAC infractions for people doing this once you got a foot in the door with it?
  • Stowelly CAStowelly CA Creative Assembly Posts: 32CA Staff
    edited March 2011
    daniu wrote: »
    Should be pretty easy to recalculate funds at battle start (ie after loading into 3D finished) once more for each player and give an immediate win to the other side without bothering to even fight the battle anymore.
    And while you're at it, can you add VAC infractions for people doing this once you got a foot in the door with it?

    we do recalulate the funds at battle start, after the user cannot interact with them.

    we cant add any vac infractions without being able to determine how people are abusing the system (and in which case we would rather fix the issues as opposed to banning people for using an exploit)

    if any of you can reporduce this I would love to have a battle with you to see this occuring

    thanks
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • daniudaniu Senior Member Posts: 2,081Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Stowelly wrote: »
    if any of you can reporduce this I would love to have a battle with you to see this occuring
    I think I know how to do it but since this works in matchmade only, it's going to be hard to get together if you can't guarantee that you'll be the one the system finds for me.
    You still owe me five provinces btw :( and a level or two.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,068
    edited March 2011
    Daniu's theory proved wrong unfortunately, so if anyone else been able to reproduce this, please PM me and have screenshots replays anything you can attach. Thanks again
  • Confused JohnnyConfused Johnny Member Posts: 78Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    Hmmm, it is pleasing to see you guys trying so hard to adress this issue! I may have come across as raging, i didnt mean to, i simply feel so dissapointed and felt i needed to express my dissapointment!

    Anyways, before checking here iw as at TWC where i saw Daniu asking for the same thing, PM from people who have done it, so i sent him a pm there detailing the once i have tried to do it, and actually was able to do it!

    I have also had it used against me many a time, in one example a 2v2 last night, mine and my allies army combined was smaller than just one of the opposing armies.

    I fear the people who have this "sussed", as in know how to do it everytime, are the type of people who wouldnt want to part with this info as it gives them a clear advantage over everyone else!

    (on a side note, is there any news or anything on when we can expect the Dishonourable Coward" bug to be fixed, as its this one as well as the unit hacks/cheats/bugs that is really killing the MP experience for a lot of people)
    I refuse to engage in a battle of wits as i dont take advantage of the handicapped!
  • daniudaniu Senior Member Posts: 2,081Registered Users
    edited March 2011
    I got another hint from someone at twc, sending it to you.
    I tried to reproduce it but I couldn't, but it may give you an angle.
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