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Music and Sound: Is this what is lacking in Rome 2?

JanduinJanduin Senior MemberPosts: 449Registered Users
edited November 2013 in Total War: ROME II
Music. It's bland and ambient, and is the same for all factions and in all battles. I've been thinking about what makes Rome 2 seem so... lifeless, and I think this is it (more so than the missing cinematics, UI, faction intros, etc.). I think it is often overlooked when focused on visuals, but music and sound are 1/2 of the sensory input you get from any game and make a HUGE difference in the atmosphere and immersion. In Rome 2, its not that the music is bad, it is just... forgettable.

I think this is why so many people feel the game lacks immersion and is 'soulless.' Total War, for me, was never the type of game where you turned down the sound and played your own music. You needed and wanted the music in previous titles to set the tone, add drama to battles, and pull you into the time period. But I think they basically viewed the music as window dressing when designing the game, and didn't put that much effort into the composition. It is just there. It doesn't specifically detract from the game, but doesn't really add to it either.

Comparing some music from previous titles illustrates my point (composed by Jeff Van Dyck):
RTW music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POO2ZYipJ24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAlMaVYIzqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SejW_WIftyQ&list=RD02QAlMaVYIzqw
RTW battle music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWg_N1EkIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKGO6AWoFXk

MTW Viking battle music (one of my favorites)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aQoax3bgKM

p.s. does anyone know of a mod for adding music to Rome 2? Maybe faction specific background music? Thanks.
Post edited by Janduin on

Comments

  • MonkeyChief1170MonkeyChief1170 Member Posts: 37Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Completely agree - the music isn't bad, its just completely uninteresting. I would also be very interested to find out if there is a music mod...
    "I will remind you, the last time Carthage resisted Rome, your Fathers were buried in the fields of Sicily." - Scipio Africanus
    Loyal Supporter of DeI http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?2024-Divide-et-Impera-(DeI)
  • RealWarfareRealWarfare Senior Member Posts: 2,036Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited November 2013
    I've heard a few quite good soundtracks in the game, but for the greater part of the time I don't even notice the music. I really miss the music of the original Rome which changed depending on the situation on the battlefield.
    The best is yet to come
  • The Chocolate JesusThe Chocolate Jesus Senior Member Posts: 1,170Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Sound is good. Music is indeed lacking at points.
    It's gotta be a Chocolate Jesus to keep me satisfied.
  • The Chocolate JesusThe Chocolate Jesus Senior Member Posts: 1,170Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    By the way... we can't really blame Richard Beddow as he mentioned in one of the videos about music and sound before the launch, that the inspiration mainly comes from the game itself. So no wonder the music isn't that good. There's nothing inspiring about the game.
    It's gotta be a Chocolate Jesus to keep me satisfied.
  • HildorHildor Senior Member The MidlandsPosts: 3,283Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wPwBeXC5VU

    Easily the best R2 soundtrack. The main theme is weak though, and the others generic and un-inspiring
    There'd be something witty here if I could think of it
  • BloodSpillerBloodSpiller Senior Member Posts: 489Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    someone need to mod the music from Rome 1 to Rome 2
  • JanduinJanduin Senior Member Posts: 449Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    someone need to mod the music from Rome 1 to Rome 2

    I was just thinking this. Music doesn't age. I would be happy with the EB/EBII team making a mod with their music as well. I thought the factions specific background music they used was pretty good.
  • CladdozCladdoz Junior Member Posts: 6Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Janduin wrote: »
    Music. It's bland and ambient, and is the same for all factions and in all battles. I've been thinking about what makes Rome 2 seem so... lifeless, and I think this is it (more so than the missing cinematics, UI, faction intros, etc.). I think it is often overlooked when focused on visuals, but music and sound are 1/2 of the sensory input you get from any game and make a HUGE difference in the atmosphere and immersion. In Rome 2, its not that the music is bad, it is just... forgettable.

    I think this is why so many people feel the game lacks immersion and is 'soulless.' Total War, for me, was never the type of game where you turned down the sound and played your own music. You needed and wanted the music in previous titles to set the tone, add drama to battles, and pull you into the time period. But I think they basically viewed the music as window dressing when designing the game, and didn't put that much effort into the composition. It is just there. It doesn't specifically detract from the game, but doesn't really add to it either.


    This is exactly how i feel. M2TW has one of the best soundtracks i've ever heard, not because the music is great, but because it fits perfectly the game's setting.

    TWR2's soundtrack just doesnt fit into the game very well. It is decent at best.
  • MacklesMackles Senior Member UKPosts: 5,352Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited November 2013
    I think the the sound effects are largely excellent. Can't fault them on that score.

    The music however... It's not bad. It's just not right for the game. It never quite hits the right pitch, or matches the mood of the moment. And it isn't dynamic such as in RTW/M2TW. Just the same track that you forget about throughout the entire battle.
    "Conquer, Punish, Enslave" - Words for the would-be Imperialists to live by!

    Somewhere on that hill, its gonna get bloody contradictory between us and them real fast. - Anon
  • BloodSpillerBloodSpiller Senior Member Posts: 489Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I will pay for a Rome 1 soundtrack to Rome 2 as a DLC CA:mad:
  • AhsasAhsas Member Posts: 47Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I can still remember the music from Shogun, Rome, and Shogun II. I honestly couldn't even give you the tune for any of the music in Rome II. The music is bland and forgettable. I wouldn't say it's the only reason Rome II is lifeless, but I'm honestly confused as to why they replaced Jeff Van Dyck.

    So much of Rome II would have been better if CA had stuck with the mantra of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Innovation is good, but Rome II was too much reinventing the wheel to make anything work properly.
  • JanduinJanduin Senior Member Posts: 449Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Ahsas wrote: »
    I can still remember the music from Shogun, Rome, and Shogun II. I honestly couldn't even give you the tune for any of the music in Rome II. The music is bland and forgettable. I wouldn't say it's the only reason Rome II is lifeless, but I'm honestly confused as to why they replaced Jeff Van Dyck.

    So much of Rome II would have been better if CA had stuck with the mantra of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Innovation is good, but Rome II was too much reinventing the wheel to make anything work properly.

    Good point and agree with the last. Although I don't think Van Dyck has been involved since M2TW. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
  • DeciusAemiliusDeciusAemilius Member Posts: 41Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I think the music has never been the same since they stopped using Jeff Van Dyck; the Empire, Napoleon, and Rome 2 songs are... okay. I'd play them as background music at work because they don't catch the attention. Which is the PROBLEM. The music SHOULD catch your attention.

    I, too, would pay money for a Rome 1 music DLC. Creative Assembly must own the rights to the Rome 1 soundtrack; the music already exists and they have the coding tools, so it should be EASY for them to code, much faster than creating new factions. Get on it, CA! The Rome 1 Music DLC for Rome 2 would be really worthwhile.
  • VursinjetəriksVursinjetəriks Senior Member Posts: 828Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Agreed! Music is lacking. Along with the horrible copy&Paste voice acting.

    ^ Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai-Ebb&Flow

    Absolutely love this track. It captures the turmoil and the transition at such a pivotal point for Japan. Fall of the Samurai is such a wonderful expansion to Shogun 2, if not sad as well. It's always a bit cringing to see the old familiarities die out to the new innovations. -SeventhBeat

    I agree with this person.

    Rome 2 just feels like an empty shell. It has improvements, but at the same time, it takes steps back.
    To lead. A man must understand that there are forces in this world he cannot change ...


    There can be no peace, no peace with Romans, men of stone, and iron, and lies! There can be only war!

    Barbarian Victory
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjfwlVQzMmI

    Barbarian Intro
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWoYlhhJ39s
  • HildorHildor Senior Member The MidlandsPosts: 3,283Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    The expansion needs it's own new soundtrack. They could remake the R1 theme, keep the best elements of the current one and add new tracks with a melancholic feel to them (assuming it is the fall of Rome expansion)
    There'd be something witty here if I could think of it
  • Tr0stskYTr0stskY Senior Member Posts: 708Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    A lot of the problems with sound in this game are caused by poor mix downs and bad levels.

    Practically all campaign voiceovers from Generals are WAY too quiet but the "end turn" sound effect is WAY too loud!
    In battle, marching is LOUD but actual battle sounds are really quite quiet, and so are units unless you are right next to them when selecting.
    All skirmish units (archers, slingers, javelins) have sound problems. A rain of Javelins actually does just sound like a bit of rain! The sounds need more "weight" (bass) to them, they are way too wishy washy at the moment. It's almost impossible to hear the sound of a Javelin hitting off a shield or hitting the floor. I feel like 300 Javelins being thrown at the same time should actually be quite loud......

    Anyway, like I said, I think a lot of the problems are with the mixdown. The campaign music has a similar mix down issue, but it is more to do with the fact that music tends to reset upon battles and upon end turns. This means that the song barely gets going half the time before it is interrupted. I actually quite like some of the campaign music but I would definitely NOT say no to a return of ;

    I mean this song just brings back TONNES of wonderful memories the moment you hear the first note. It gives me chills that none of the music really does in Rome 2.
  • CrazyflyingpandaCrazyflyingpanda Member Posts: 73Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I think the sound of effects in battle are pretty decent, but I honestly forget that Rome 2 has a soundtrack sometimes. I agree with most of the posters here Rome I was my favourite soundtrack, it just blended with the rest of the game perfectly.
    Add me on steam if you want to: Crazyflyingpanda

    Experience is the teacher of all things- Julius Caesar
  • nigesybarnigesybar Senior Member Posts: 1,065Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Tr0stskY wrote: »
    A lot of the problems with sound in this game are caused by poor mix downs and bad levels.

    Practically all campaign voiceovers from Generals are WAY too quiet but the "end turn" sound effect is WAY too loud!
    In battle, marching is LOUD but actual battle sounds are really quite quiet, and so are units unless you are right next to them when selecting.
    All skirmish units (archers, slingers, javelins) have sound problems. A rain of Javelins actually does just sound like a bit of rain! The sounds need more "weight" (bass) to them, they are way too wishy washy at the moment. It's almost impossible to hear the sound of a Javelin hitting off a shield or hitting the floor. I feel like 300 Javelins being thrown at the same time should actually be quite loud......

    Anyway, like I said, I think a lot of the problems are with the mixdown. The campaign music has a similar mix down issue, but it is more to do with the fact that music tends to reset upon battles and upon end turns. This means that the song barely gets going half the time before it is interrupted. I actually quite like some of the campaign music but I would definitely NOT say no to a return of ;

    I mean this song just brings back TONNES of wonderful memories the moment you hear the first note. It gives me chills that none of the music really does in Rome 2.
    Fantastic isn't it. I don't mind the music in r2 but nothing compares to this.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 7,062
    edited November 2013
    I will pay for a Rome 1 soundtrack to Rome 2 as a DLC CA:mad:

    Yep I would too.
  • POemilPOemil Junior Member Posts: 24Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I am inclinded to agree. With all respect to the creator of Rome 2's music, it is not doing what it is supposed to be doing. It is not bad or disturbing, but it is not good either.
    I personally always had a thing for the Shogun 1 soundtrack.
  • shipanda01shipanda01 Senior Member Posts: 206Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Rome 2 soundtrack is boring, in campaign it's always the same track for every culture and I don't think it's good for immersion..
  • HildorHildor Senior Member The MidlandsPosts: 3,283Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    There'd be something witty here if I could think of it
  • DopksetDopkset Member Posts: 41Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Completely agree, the soundtrack does have its moments but they are far and few in between. I'm a Viola player of 13 years and the score falls into some of the most generic orchestral pieces that I've heard or played. Most of the music in R2 is just..."Ok-meh". Nothing special, nothing heart pounding, nothing very immersive, nothing authentic. It's just there for the sake of being there.

    There was a previous thread about this where a video was posted comparing R2 music to previous titles. It makes the same mistake as Empire/Napoleon where the music actually lulls you into a sense of boredom regardless of what's happening on the battlefield.
  • NinbladesNinblades Senior Member Posts: 241Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Jeff Van Dyck wasn't hired to make the music for R2. He was the one who made the music for RTW, MTW, S2TW, STW, & M2TW. Richard Beddow, the same guy responsible for ETW & NTW's music was hired to make the music for R2TW.
  • CaliberCaliber Senior Member Posts: 932Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Tr0stskY wrote: »
    A lot of the problems with sound in this game are caused by poor mix downs and bad levels.

    Practically all campaign voiceovers from Generals are WAY too quiet but the "end turn" sound effect is WAY too loud!
    In battle, marching is LOUD but actual battle sounds are really quite quiet, and so are units unless you are right next to them when selecting.
    All skirmish units (archers, slingers, javelins) have sound problems. A rain of Javelins actually does just sound like a bit of rain! The sounds need more "weight" (bass) to them, they are way too wishy washy at the moment. It's almost impossible to hear the sound of a Javelin hitting off a shield or hitting the floor. I feel like 300 Javelins being thrown at the same time should actually be quite loud......

    Anyway, like I said, I think a lot of the problems are with the mixdown. The campaign music has a similar mix down issue, but it is more to do with the fact that music tends to reset upon battles and upon end turns. This means that the song barely gets going half the time before it is interrupted. I actually quite like some of the campaign music but I would definitely NOT say no to a return of ;

    I mean this song just brings back TONNES of wonderful memories the moment you hear the first note. It gives me chills that none of the music really does in Rome 2.

    Exactly.
    "Isn't it a lovely thing to live with great courage, and to die living an ever lasting failing. Come Macedonians, why do you retreat, do you want to live forever!? In the name of Zeus, attack!!!"
    - Alexander the Great


    Battle of Hydaspes in the far Indus, when his Center was being routed by massed Elephants he rushed in un-supported on his horse Bucephalus.
  • GrimageGrimage Junior Member Posts: 41Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Rome 1 had indeed very addictive music(s). I was emotionnaly invested everytime i turned it on.

    Rome 2 has good ambient music, but it hardly compares to its predecessor.
    One thing bothers me, about sounds : the end turn sound effect. It sounds too much asian to my ears, was it shogun's end turn sound by any luck ? It sounds like it...
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,412Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    There are a lot more things lacking/broken/badly implemented in Rome II.
    But surely musics is one of those.
    In my opinion, the problem is Richard Beddow: he's not able to make musics for games, though some of his tracks are awesome and i think that they'd fit more for movies.

    Look how bad are "user scores" for Richard Beddow games
    http://www.metacritic.com/person/richard-beddow?filter-options=games&sort_options=user_score&num_items=30
    Let's compare with Jeff Van Dyck.
    http://www.metacritic.com/person/jeff-van-dyck?filter-options=games&sort_options=user_score&num_items=30

    :eek:
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
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