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Getae Roster

karge068karge068 Senior MemberPosts: 1,162Registered Users
edited August 2014 in General Discussion
The Getae roster is seriously lacking in melee infantry

They would really benefit from Thracian warriors or another mid tier unit

anyone else agree or have any other suggestions?
Post edited by karge068 on
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Comments

  • Lemonater47Lemonater47 Senior Member Posts: 3,372Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    The Dacians had a high number of swords. Higher than other barbarian societies.

    Yet they only have 1 sword unit and its an elite unit.

    Need more sword and shield units.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • MarijanMarijan Senior Member Posts: 2,001Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    The Dacians had a high number of swords. Higher than other barbarian societies.

    Yet they only have 1 sword unit and its an elite unit.

    Need more sword and shield units.

    Please back that up with actual historical evidence. They were known for their use of the falx and they probably used the Sica as well, since that is basically just a small one-handed falx, although to a lesser degree than the Thracians or Illyrians, but the Dacians aren't known for any distinct swords as far as I know, but the falx, which is represented in the game.

    The unit roster of the Getae seems to be kind of balanced in direct comparison to other Balkan factions, which have lackluster ones. The Odrysian Kingdom lacks any spear infantry for no reason for example, although that makes absolutely no sense in terms of historical accuracy and game-play, especially since their description even mentions their adoption of the Greek phalanx, while the Illyrians have considerably worse melee units than the Getae, but only two very bad and basic missile units and horrible cavalry, unlike the Getae. The Illyrians need an improvement to their unit roster much more than the Getae, preferably Sica-wiedling melee infantry, considering that the Sica was very popular in Illyria and Thracia.

    I am generally not against improvements to any unit roster, but improving those which are comparably fine while others are still obviously lacking just increases the gap between them and makes the already bad ones even less competitive.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 35,872Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited August 2014
    A possible partial solution might be to allow a Daco-Thracian confederation to recruit units from both the Getae and Odrysian faction rosters.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

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  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    A possible partial solution might be to allow a Daco-Thracian confederation to recruit units from both the Getae and Odrysian faction rosters.

    That would be cool but it would require a new system. From what I can tell confederation only turns control of those armies and lands over to you and renames you. To make that suggestion work they would to switch your faction mid campaign to the Confederation Faction. I would actually love to see that happen.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • MarijanMarijan Senior Member Posts: 2,001Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    A possible partial solution might be to allow a Daco-Thracian confederation to recruit units from both the Getae and Odrysian faction rosters.

    Actually every confederation should be able to recruit the units of its factions, as compensation for the inability to create client states or satraps, at least if CA keeps being too stubborn about this matter to change something about that. Trying to create some variety through diversity, as result of artificially restricting the possibilities of specific cultural groups, just seems to be a terrible approach in general.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 35,872Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited August 2014
    I did not mean to imply that this should only be available for the Getae/Odrysians, I was simply keeping to topic and trying to avoid a broadening of the discussion.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • Lemonater47Lemonater47 Senior Member Posts: 3,372Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Marijan wrote: »
    Please back that up with actual historical evidence. They were known for their use of the falx and they probably used the Sica as well, since that is basically just a small one-handed falx, although to a lesser degree than the Thracians or Illyrians, but the Dacians aren't known for any distinct swords as far as I know, but the falx, which is represented in the game.

    The unit roster of the Getae seems to be kind of balanced in direct comparison to other Balkan factions, which have lackluster ones. The Odrysian Kingdom lacks any spear infantry for no reason for example, although that makes absolutely no sense in terms of historical accuracy and game-play, especially since their description even mentions their adoption of the Greek phalanx, while the Illyrians have considerably worse melee units than the Getae, but only two very bad and basic missile units and horrible cavalry, unlike the Getae. The Illyrians need an improvement to their unit roster much more than the Getae, preferably Sica-wiedling melee infantry, considering that the Sica was very popular in Illyria and Thracia.

    I am generally not against improvements to any unit roster, but improving those which are comparably fine while others are still obviously lacking just increases the gap between them and makes the already bad ones even less competitive.

    Read it somewhere. Said that in Celtic armies only about 10% of them had swords. In dacian armies there were a lot more.

    Though this was in the Dacian wars in Trajan's time.
  • karge068karge068 Senior Member Posts: 1,162Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Erminaz wrote: »

    Nice little plug there :)

    Im not too fussed if its a sword of falx unit, would prefer the latter though

    Otherwise my Getae campaign is going to be spear wall armies, heavy on skirmishers, with a bit of cavalry. No real melee "charge" units until I unlock noble swords

    Hence goigng to give it a pass
  • MarijanMarijan Senior Member Posts: 2,001Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    I did not mean to imply that this should only be available for the Getae/Odrysians, I was simply keeping to topic and trying to avoid a broadening of the discussion.

    I did not mean to imply that you implied that either, just agreed with a great suggestion and was extending it to other factions as well. Technically it is still on topic, since it wouldn't only fix the supposedly existed lack of melee infantry for the Getae, but also the complete lack of spear infantry for the Odrysian Kingdom, which is great. It wouldn't be really imbalanced either, even if you allow them to recruit even the elite units of each other, since the combined unit rosters of Barbarian factions of the same kin would still rarely match those of Rome or the powerful successor kingdoms, like the Seleucid Empire, which can also recruit levy units from their clients/satraps in addition to their own units and potential partners for a confederation are usually very limited or offer little unit variation anyway, while every faction can be turned into a client state or satrap.
    Read it somewhere. Said that in Celtic armies only about 10% of them had swords. In dacian armies there were a lot more.

    Though this was in the Dacian wars in Trajan's time.

    I read that the Romans took advantage of the big iron deposits in Dacia after they took control over they region, but I never read that the Dacians during the period of time featured in the game would have been using considerably more swords than other "Barbarians", in addition to the falx, which one-handed version was probably considered as a curved sword, similar to the Sica. I actually prefer the unit roster of the Getae in terms of melee infantry and especially swords over the ones of most other Barbarian tribes, which are completely overusing "swords" and underrepresenting other weapons like axes and clubs. While the Getae lack any club- or axe-units, actual swords are exclusive to nobles, but their unit roster gets balanced by a cheap unit of melee infantry, using the falx.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    karge068 wrote: »
    Im not too fussed if its a sword of falx unit, would prefer the latter though

    Otherwise my Getae campaign is going to be spear wall armies, heavy on skirmishers, with a bit of cavalry. No real melee "charge" units until I unlock noble swords

    Hence goigng to give it a pass

    My Getae Campaign comprised of a spear core, Falx flanking units, Archers and a mixture of melee Cavalry and Horse Archers. I used the spear core to hold the enemy while the falx hit them on the flanks and my cavalry dealt with enemy horses. If the path was clear, horse archers to shoot into the enemies backs. That campaign made the Getae one of may favorite factions.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • TomislavTomislav Senior Member Posts: 651Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    karge068 wrote: »
    Im not too fussed if its a sword of falx unit, would prefer the latter though

    Otherwise my Getae campaign is going to be spear wall armies, heavy on skirmishers, with a bit of cavalry. No real melee "charge" units until I unlock noble swords

    Hence goigng to give it a pass

    Falxmen aren't "charge units"? It looks like they should be good early on but relegated to a flanking force later.

    Anyways, I wouldn't be opposed to Getae getting a sica or stronger falx unit but other rosters are more in need of expansion.
  • karge068karge068 Senior Member Posts: 1,162Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Tomislav wrote: »
    Falxmen aren't "charge units"? It looks like they should be good early on but relegated to a flanking force later.

    Anyways, I wouldn't be opposed to Getae getting a sica or stronger falx unit but other rosters are more in need of expansion.

    you're right hat they are charging units, but they are pretty weak I thought....would be nice to have something mid tier like Thracian warriors
  • TomislavTomislav Senior Member Posts: 651Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Read it somewhere. Said that in Celtic armies only about 10% of them had swords. In dacian armies there were a lot more.

    Though this was in the Dacian wars in Trajan's time.

    Wikipedia? Their source is "The Dacian threat, 101-106 AD" by Michael Schmitz.
    From what is available to read online he says that one-tenth of Spanish and Gallic warriors had swords and Dacians had a greater percentage, but doesn't specify by how much.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    karge068 wrote: »
    The Getae roster is seriously lacking in melee infantry

    They would really benefit from Thracian warriors or another mid tier unit

    anyone else agree or have any other suggestions?

    I do agree they lack a med mele inf that could cost like 700 to 800.

    But again, Ardiaei and Odryssian need it more, even if Getae need it too.

    I propose sica warrior, a unit with good mele attack that cost 800 and do worth his 800. :)
    It could be avaible to those 3 faction and boost them up and give them more viability in multiplayer.
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    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
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  • Ironside12Ironside12 Senior Member Posts: 6,127Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Marijan wrote: »
    I read that the Romans took advantage of the big iron deposits in Dacia after they took control over they region, but I never read that the Dacians during the period of time featured in the game would have been using considerably more swords than other "Barbarians", in addition to the falx, which one-handed version was probably considered as a curved sword, similar to the Sica. I actually prefer the unit roster of the Getae in terms of melee infantry and especially swords over the ones of most other Barbarian tribes, which are completely overusing "swords" and underrepresenting other weapons like axes and clubs. While the Getae lack any club- or axe-units, actual swords are exclusive to nobles, but their unit roster gets balanced by a cheap unit of melee infantry, using the falx.

    "Swords

    At least two kinds of double-edged sword were used by the Dacians. They used a short stabbing blade closely based on the Roman gladius, and noblemen and cavalrymen also used a longer blade like those used by Celtic warriors. Dacian warriors wore their sword on the right side of the body, so that they would not be covered by the shield. Most warriors did not own a sword, so these privileged few were keen to show off their luck."

    This was later than the game period though, and swords were rare at this time, the time of Trajan, so I think it's unlikely that they had many men using swords during the time period.

    Source: http://historum.com/ancient-history/11139-dacian-warrior.html
    Sjiriki wrote: »
    Balancing is a far more intricate thing than looking at who wins a 1v1 fight.

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  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Ironside12 wrote: »
    "Swords

    At least two kinds of double-edged sword were used by the Dacians. They used a short stabbing blade closely based on the Roman gladius, and noblemen and cavalrymen also used a longer blade like those used by Celtic warriors. Dacian warriors wore their sword on the right side of the body, so that they would not be covered by the shield. Most warriors did not own a sword, so these privileged few were keen to show off their luck."

    This was later than the game period though, and swords were rare at this time, the time of Trajan, so I think it's unlikely that they had many men using swords during the time period.

    Source: http://historum.com/ancient-history/11139-dacian-warrior.html

    Same source but a bit lower:
    The Falx

    The dreaded Dacian "war scythe" is the iconic weapon of these peoples - and few other weapons ever instilled such anxiety in Rome's gritty legionaries as this vicious blade. The falx came in many sizes - there was a hand version not much bigger than a dagger; others were nearly as big as the men wielding them.

    This weapon crucially represented a samurai sword turned inside-out. It curved sharply at the tip, forming a sort of "beak" at the end which could be used to puncture helmets, armor, and shields - not to mention unguarded flesh. The Dacian warrior appears to have wielded the falx almost like a huge medieval broadsword - lifting it above his head before swinging it down onto his enemy. In loose formations Dacians also wielded the falx in broad, sweeping strokes that could slash a man's legs out from under him.

    Archaeology and Roman testimony indicate that the falx - though an important weapon - was not a prestigious one - it was wielded to terrible effect by nobleman and commoner alike. A partially Germanic tribe living near the Dacians, the Basternae, were especially famed for their dreadful skill wielding the falx, but all Dacian tribes produced this weapon. During Trajan's Dacian Wars, legionaries were actually equipped with gladiatorial-style arm and leg armor (manicae) to offer at least slightly more protection against the falx.

    End of the quote :)

    He talked about a one hand version... -_-*

    We simply want a soldier with a mele weapon and a shield, thats it. It will had alot to those factions.
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    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • tak22tak22 Senior Member Posts: 2,384Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    I wouldn't object to having a medium sword unit in the roster, but I have to say I played a good bit of a campaign with them when they came out & they really don't need much help. Their spears (esp. the late armoured version) are good enough to hold against most swords, their heavy skirmishers, falxmen, and cav are highly effective flankers, and the noble swords (which you can get as a general's unit) provide a good bit of 'stiffening' to the lines where needed. They function very similarly to Macedon in terms of being a combined arms force - although they just have regular spears, not pikes - but if treated as such with units in specialist roles around a core of heavy spears who are designed to hold under pressure while specialist units win the battle, they can be very effective.
  • jonasneejonasnee Senior Member Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    i think this faction is OP or close to OP, i see no reason for "more swords" if you want that then buy some mercs.
    put your actions where your mouth is.
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  • TempestWolfTempestWolf Senior Member Posts: 789Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    oh hai... I see people supporting my favorite faction again :))...

    also, saw a link to my thread earlier... that one is simply for the sica as a model with a few specific stats (maybe if coerced piece by piece into expanding the balkans CA will do it). Although I've also started a thread on their expansion, I'll support this one, as mine is quite old and buried by now.

    My two cents:

    Sica model... with armor piercing between a sword and an axe... given to dacian nobles.

    Medium sica unit for dacians and thracians.
    Replace ardiaei marine spears with sicas and/or maybe add an elite marine sica unit.


    One stronger falx unit... either modify the original one, or add a new one (bastarnae mercs/allies?)... oh, and give it more ap than a rhomphaia... that beak isn't there for nothing. Actually they should be on par with the thracian warriors... having more killing power (armor piercing) at the cost of even less defense.

    Overall... modify the draco to scare horses on charge (passive), and give it to dacians also (and steppe factions).

    There is no reason to say balkans have a poor roster to keep them unique in their own way, when all other factions have rich rosters and still are unique in their own ways.
    We kill-slay all surface-things yes yes? Wait... no no... beard-things are not not surface-things... kill beard-things too... and surface things... yes yes.



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  • ARTOISARTOIS Senior Member Posts: 878Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    boys..its all about variety... why have every faction with level 1, 2, 3 sword, level 1, 2, 3 spear....etc its boring... this way it makes u play differently..thats the aim guys!
    You KNOW I'm right.
  • kornskorns Senior Member Posts: 122Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    They have falxmen wich are very good for flanking and noble swords with frenzy and head hunt abilities. But you don't even need those to win battles on legendary. A line of armored spears with shield wall can hold long enough for missiles and cavalry to destroy the enemy.
  • TempestWolfTempestWolf Senior Member Posts: 789Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    korns wrote: »
    They have falxmen wich are very good for flanking and noble swords with frenzy and head hunt abilities. But you don't even need those to win battles on legendary. A line of armored spears with shield wall can hold long enough for missiles and cavalry to destroy the enemy.

    Then why not cut half the rosters of egypt, seleucids... even rome... and have them use their one be all end all tactic for campaigns?

    Besides, falxes should be armor piercers... I know wikipedia is not the best place to quote, but:
    Using the falx, the Dacian warriors were able to counter the power of the compact, massed Roman formations. During the time of the Roman conquest of Dacia (101 - 102, 105 - 106), legionaries had reinforcing iron straps applied to their helmets. The Romans also introduced the use of leg and arm protectors (greaves andmanica/SUP][/COLOR][SUP][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"][COLOR=#ffffff]citation needed[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/SUP][COLOR=#ffffff][SUP) as further protection against the falxes.
    We kill-slay all surface-things yes yes? Wait... no no... beard-things are not not surface-things... kill beard-things too... and surface things... yes yes.



    I add this image of Ikit Claw to beak up the monotony that threads can fall into (except the screenshot one). I take no credit for it and the author seems to be watermarked on it.
  • revaniusrevanius Senior Member Posts: 288Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    "known for their shock cavalry units."

    has one shock unit..
  • MarijanMarijan Senior Member Posts: 2,001Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Then why not cut half the rosters of egypt, seleucids... even rome... and have them use their one be all end all tactic for campaigns?

    Besides, falxes should be armor piercers... I know wikipedia is not the best place to quote, but:
    Weapon Damage 46
    ├ Melee Weapon rome_falx
    ├ Melee Damage Base 30
    ├ Melee Damage Ap 16
    ├ Armour Piercing Yes

    ├ Bonus vs. Large 15
    ├ Bonus vs Elephants 15
    └ Bonus vs Infantry 10

    There is definitely no need to increase the stats of the falx as weapon in this game anymore, after they added the bonuses. I am not going to reply to the other obviously nonsensical demand.
    revanius wrote: »
    "known for their shock cavalry units."

    has one shock unit..
    "Description of the Getae in Rome 2"]Famed for their impressive shock cavalry and hit-and-run raiding tactics, the Getae earned the reputation during their time under the control of the now-weakened Odrysian Kingdom, to whom they provided military services.

    Were you trying to quote this description of the Getae? They also wrote here, that "Odrysia produces some of the finest bowmen in the world, and any Odrysian general would be wise to take advantage of this when considering his army composition". Whether this is true in reality or not, which I highly doubt based on what I have read so far, it is definitely false in the game. They got a single bad unit of archers and no horse-archers, although that is historically inaccurate. My point is that CA isn't a viable source for history and I would rather have my game kind of historically accurate, which differs from the false descriptions than a historically inaccurate game, based on false descriptions.

    Furthermore you don't need a variety of cavalry to become "famed" or "known" for it and their elite shock cavalry isn't bad in comparison to other factions and significantly better than their melee cavalry. In addition to that they have access to horse-archers, unlike the Odrysians, which are obviously great for "hit-and-run raiding tactics". They were also neighboring and frequently allied with nomadic tribes, which would obviously provide more cavalry than other factions. Their cavalry is in general kind of balanced, especially in comparison to other Barbarian factions, which don't have a greater variety either, especially the Illyrians, which are, as I already said, in much more urgent need for an improvement of their unit roster.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    jonasnee wrote: »
    i think this faction is OP or close to OP, i see no reason for "more swords" if you want that then buy some mercs.

    I have to disagree with you there mate. Their cav is too weak and they dont have a med mele inf unit... you cant be powerfull without that
    oh hai... I see people supporting my favorite faction again :))...

    also, saw a link to my thread earlier... that one is simply for the sica as a model with a few specific stats (maybe if coerced piece by piece into expanding the balkans CA will do it). Although I've also started a thread on their expansion, I'll support this one, as mine is quite old and buried by now.

    My two cents:

    Sica model... with armor piercing between a sword and an axe... given to dacian nobles.

    Medium sica unit for dacians and thracians.
    Replace ardiaei marine spears with sicas and/or maybe add an elite marine sica unit.


    One stronger falx unit... either modify the original one, or add a new one (bastarnae mercs/allies?)... oh, and give it more ap than a rhomphaia... that beak isn't there for nothing. Actually they should be on par with the thracian warriors... having more killing power (armor piercing) at the cost of even less defense.

    Overall... modify the draco to scare horses on charge (passive), and give it to dacians also (and steppe factions).

    There is no reason to say balkans have a poor roster to keep them unique in their own way, when all other factions have rich rosters and still are unique in their own ways.

    I agree in all the points that you wrote... It will help make those factions complete.
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  • tak22tak22 Senior Member Posts: 2,384Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Belialxv wrote: »
    I have to disagree with you there mate. Their cav is too weak and they dont have a med mele inf unit... you cant be powerfull without that

    'Too weak'??? They get heavy melee cav at T2, HAs at T3, heavy lancers at T4. They're the only non-nomad barbarian faction to get shock cav or HAs at all; and their melee cav can equal or outclass most non-elite cav. They might not be as good as the nomads, but they get 2 things the nomads don't: spearmen and foot archers, which more than makes up the balance.

    And as for lacking med. melee infantry, I think that's made up for by the fact that they have some of the best non-elite spearmen in the game, who can hold pretty easily against anything except maybe Oathsworn long enough for flanking units to do their work.

    And really - put a unit of falxmen into the rear of an Oathsworn unit, Oathsworn will positively melt.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,252Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    Though I would like to see more units for the Dacians, I can see where CA went with them.

    Their excellent spears hold the line while cavalry and skirmishers soften up and break the enemy line, once that's taken care of, falxmen charge in to annihilate any opposition.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    tak22 wrote: »
    'Too weak'??? They get heavy melee cav at T2, HAs at T3, heavy lancers at T4. They're the only non-nomad barbarian faction to get shock cav or HAs at all; and their melee cav can equal or outclass most non-elite cav. They might not be as good as the nomads, but they get 2 things the nomads don't: spearmen and foot archers, which more than makes up the balance.

    And as for lacking med. melee infantry, I think that's made up for by the fact that they have some of the best non-elite spearmen in the game, who can hold pretty easily against anything except maybe Oathsworn long enough for flanking units to do their work.

    And really - put a unit of falxmen into the rear of an Oathsworn unit, Oathsworn will positively melt.

    For what they were in real life, yeah their cav is weak. They got few varity of cavalry, only one mele cav and one shock plus 2 misile cav... It's pretty bad.

    Also they should have access to draco and spears are weak in general right now... so having good spears dont help that much.

    And no their mele cav cant match or outclass most non-elite cav. What were you thinking when you wrote that?
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  • ACWMANEACWMANE Senior Member Posts: 790Registered Users
    edited August 2014
    This looks like a job for the mods! I'm sure there are some modders out there who could create a "non-elite" sword unit for the Dacians...
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