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Any Chance of Retro-fitting Rome II?

IstvanIstvan Senior MemberLondon, CanadaPosts: 1,232Registered Users
edited February 2015 in General Discussion
Rome II has come a long way over the last year, and has become for the most part a stable, playable and even - dare I say - enjoyable game. Nonetheless, a few further improvements to Rome II wouldn't be a step in the wrong direction from the player's perspective, either (particularly with naval battles, which are unfortunately rather painful and best left to autoresolve or masochists). TW: Attila has the potential to rectify some of these issues by retro-fitting some of its fixes and improvements to the base Rome II game.

I understand that it's impossible to simply copy and paste code from one game to the other, and I also understand that CA has generally avoided retro-fitting features from expansion packs into the base game (the only exception I can think of is the unofficial Retro-fit mod for Medieval II by one of its developers). However, I believe that CA should take note of its past releases and consider the possibility of appeasing the player base a little more (I know, I know, we're quite insatiable). Empire: Total War was on the whole, in my humble opinion, an utterly brilliant game which was then seemingly dropped and left in the middle of the patching process that should have mended its glaring issues, which continue to plague the game to this day. Instead of a completed Empire, instead we were given Napoleon: Total War, which fixed almost all of Empire's greatest issues but the game never retro-fitted any of its fixes to its predecessor.
I like to believe as an insatiable gamer that that was a mistake and should not be repeated. If Napoleon would have retro-fitted its improvements to Empire, is it not possible that Napoleon's sales would not have been so lackluster? Naturally there were other reasons behind its poor sales, but fixing the base game could not have hurt either.

Of course, not every feature a Total War expansion pack introduces can be retro-fitted into its vanilla predecessor, particularly as TW games tend to span varying time periods, however, that shouldn't completely prevent the retro-fitting of all improvements across the board. Take an example from other studios whose expansion packs not only offer a new campaign but breath new life into the base game itself. Many Civilization titles, Starcraft: Brood War, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, etc. these expansion packs are what defined and made popular the base game itself.

Don't leave Rome II behind like what happened with Empire- give it some new life, even if those new features us the price of buying Attila (and rightly so, as any gamer with sense understands development comes along with costs that have to be born by someone).
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Post edited by Istvan on
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Comments

  • Joey CAJoey CA Creative Assembly Posts: 750Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    edited September 2014
    Istvan wrote: »
    Rome II has come a long way over the last year, and has become for the most part a stable, playable and even - dare I say - enjoyable game. Nonetheless, a few further improvements to Rome II wouldn't be a step in the wrong direction from the player's perspective, either (particularly with naval battles, which are unfortunately rather painful and best left to autoresolve or masochists). TW: Attila has the potential to rectify some of these issues by retro-fitting some of its fixes and improvements to the base Rome II game.

    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.
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    The formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • Herr BreeHerr Bree Senior Member Posts: 690Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    At this point I don't think the problem with Rome 2 is lack of features, but more of the bland and empty features that are already in game. The same features that look so good and refined in Attila. (research tree, army and general skill tree) little touches like that would go a very long way in Rome 2.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Senior Member Posts: 2,164Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Herr Bree wrote: »
    At this point I don't think the problem with Rome 2 is lack of features, but more of the bland and empty features that are already in game. The same features that look so good and refined in Attila. (research tree, army and general skill tree) little touches like that would go a very long way in Rome 2.

    Completely agree. Attila looks much more polished and well thought out. Would love to see some of it's content added to R2
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  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,422Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.
    I may understand not using back features such as family tree and more complex ones, since they have not been designed for Rome II.

    But using Attila improvements such as MSAA, improved graphics, some UI improvements, axe animations, improved AI and many others would be easy to do, since the 2 games run on the same engine!
    I honestly will not buy Attila if this will not happen.
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


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  • AstroCatAstroCat Senior Member Posts: 373Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.
    Well that is greatly disappointing and I think a huge missed opportunity. Sad, but here we go again.
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  • ArthusArthus Senior Member Posts: 148Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    It's not clear to me how I should interprete 'however the new content team will continue to work on Rome II'.
    Could you be more specific?
    They continue with new patches or really content?
    What is the nature of the content? free? paid DLC, or perhaps a mix of both?

    I'd also like to compliment the OP on the intelligent mature and civilised manner he brought this subject up, and I agree with the OP.
  • TheSuebiBerserkerTheSuebiBerserker Senior Member Posts: 412Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Vastator wrote: »
    I may understand not using back features such as family tree and more complex ones, since they have not been designed for Rome II.

    But using Attila improvements such as MSAA, improved graphics, some UI improvements, axe animations, improved AI and many others would be easy to do, since the 2 games run on the same engine!
    I honestly will not buy Attila if this will not happen.
    Same here.
    All of my posts in the Rome 2 forums are satire unless I say otherwise.
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  • Dangerman1337Dangerman1337 Member Posts: 67Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    I don't think the New Content Team can pull things out of their figurative a** (not any offense towards the team BTW just stating that they can't do things in an instant), while we may not get something as good (like the governors) would could get a family tree thought it could be problematic with say the Roman faction with its clans which is composed of many families. Also there's the prospect of coding the whole thing where an entirely new factor has to be placed in for the likes of the AI and replacing various segments of code and testing it all.

    Though I recall Jack CA saying something about the possibility of a family tree before Attila was revealed though demand could mean it could mean a tree of sorts but not the same one in Attila. I'd love Attila features to be in Rome 2 vanilla but it would require redesign and re-coding.
  • foxhound71foxhound71 Member Posts: 78Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    I wish they would put R2's aero-style UI in the trash where it belongs and replace it with Attila's sensible looking one. That's the only retrofit that I feel would be do-able without requiring too many changes, which wouldn't happen anyway.
  • VessingerVessinger Senior Member Posts: 804Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Arthus wrote: »
    It's not clear to me how I should interprete 'however the new content team will continue to work on Rome II'.
    Could you be more specific?
    They continue with new patches or really content?
    What is the nature of the content? free? paid DLC, or perhaps a mix of both?

    I'd also like to compliment the OP on the intelligent mature and civilised manner he brought this subject up, and I agree with the OP.

    I can be more specific. We might see one or two minor features added in the coming months before R2 is abandoned for other projects. I don't even have to work for CA to tell you that, just look at past experience. They've got bills to pay and R2 is old news and getting older. That's the harsh reality of the way the business has to work. It's either this or Total War Online F2P with microtransactions.
  • DodanodoDodanodo Senior Member Posts: 341Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.
    With all do respect, if CA plans on making more content for Rome II, could it start by making content the fans are actually asking for please? Not saying the content you are making isn't fun, but honestly, I would rather have a family tree then the Emporer Augustus campaign, and I know I ain't the only one. And if that's not marketable enough, add it to other, more flashy content and charge an extra dollar.

    Please, I ask you this not out of greed, but out of love for the TW franchise and Rome II in particular. I am willing to pay for it, just make it available to us!
  • DodanodoDodanodo Senior Member Posts: 341Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Vessinger wrote: »
    I can be more specific. We might see one or two minor features added in the coming months before R2 is abandoned for other projects. I don't even have to work for CA to tell you that, just look at past experience. They've got bills to pay and R2 is old news and getting older. That's the harsh reality of the way the business has to work. It's either this or Total War Online F2P with microtransactions.
    Sadly, this is not entirely true. I point you to Europa Universalis. I don't like comparing it to Rome 2, because they are entirely differant games, but Paradox gives constant love to EU IV despite having plenty of other games in developement. They do the same with CK 2!
  • Tim_WardTim_Ward Senior Member Posts: 347Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    This was the reason I didn't buy Napoleon. Not buying a new game just to get features & fixes that should've been in the last one.
  • DGPDGP Senior Member Posts: 731Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Dodanodo wrote: »
    family tree
    Stop that already, it WON'T happen.
    How many times do these people want CA to state that?
    Vastator wrote: »
    MSAA, improved graphics, some UI improvements, axe animations, improved AI
    Agree!
  • TheBraveKnightTheBraveKnight Senior Member Posts: 1,641Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    AstroCat wrote: »
    Well that is greatly disappointing and I think a huge missed opportunity. Sad, but here we go again.
    That is shame

    I'm afraid Attila will be nothing more than a polished Rome 2.....
  • Herr BreeHerr Bree Senior Member Posts: 690Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Erstus wrote: »
    That is shame

    I'm afraid Attila will be nothing more than a polished Rome 2.....

    Except almost 1000 years later which is a huge let down to me
  • LesrekLesrek Senior Member Posts: 613Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Dodanodo wrote: »
    With all do respect, if CA plans on making more content for Rome II, could it start by making content the fans are actually asking for please? Not saying the content you are making isn't fun, but honestly, I would rather have a family tree then the Emporer Augustus campaign, and I know I ain't the only one. And if that's not marketable enough, add it to other, more flashy content and charge an extra dollar.

    Please, I ask you this not out of greed, but out of love for the TW franchise and Rome II in particular. I am willing to pay for it, just make it available to us!

    Speak for yourself because the IA campaign is the most fun I have had in a Total War game since Napoleon. It is easily better than the minor effect a family tree would have had on the GC.
  • Blue-SanBlue-San Senior Member Posts: 406Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    My "deal" is the following and simple one. Charge me for the UI (family tree, governors etc) from Attila or similar one that can be used for RTW II or make it so that if I buy Attila I get to see it in RTW II as well.

    What's the problem here?
  • GawkyPlayer5GawkyPlayer5 Senior Member Posts: 150Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    foxhound71 wrote: »
    I wish they would put R2's aero-style UI in the trash where it belongs and replace it with Attila's sensible looking one. That's the only retrofit that I feel would be do-able without requiring too many changes, which wouldn't happen anyway.

    Oh plz..plz.. I know one of the official CA member said long time ago that there won't be any major changes to UI for Rome 2 or something. But plz consider putting a little more authentic UI like in Shogun 2's and the new Attila's UI. I know... I know there are good UI mods out there. Nevertheless something more needed for the UI from CA, than the current existing simplified 75% transparent black UI one that we have now, before Rome 2 EE is completely done.
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  • Siven80Siven80 Senior Member Posts: 484Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    I have no trouble with the family tree not coming to Rome 2 as they seem to have features like the Governers etc that look to be only for Atilla.

    But i would love to see the Tech tree and General/Character skill trees and other UI Changes ported across.

    I dont think that would be that hard to do......but then i have no coding exp :)
  • Herr BreeHerr Bree Senior Member Posts: 690Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Siven80 wrote: »
    I have no trouble with the family tree not coming to Rome 2 as they seem to have features like the Governers etc that look to be only for Atilla.

    But i would love to see the Tech tree and General/Character skill trees and other UI Changes ported across.

    I dont think that would be that hard to do......but then i have no coding exp :)

    Exactly. I completely agree with you. The family tree is a no go, because they would have to change to much to add it (I think). But the cosmetic features like the research trees and skill trees and UI shouldn't be that hard, and I think would add a ton to Rome 2.
  • IstvanIstvan Senior Member London, CanadaPosts: 1,232Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    Thanks for the clarification.
    Battle not with Canadians, lest ye become a Canadian, and if ye gaze into the maple syrup, the maple syrup gazes also into you.
  • amitchell22amitchell22 Senior Member Posts: 131Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    Does this bother you at all? On a personal level that is.
  • AggonyDuckAggonyDuck Senior Member Posts: 3,641Registered Users, Smiley
    edited September 2014
    It should probably be possible to mod the Rome 2 Grand Campaign into Total War: Attila. Might require some work, but shouldn't be too hard to import stuff. That said you might require a permission by CA to do so.
  • Emperor DomitianusEmperor Domitianus Senior Member Posts: 1,243Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Herr Bree wrote: »
    At this point I don't think the problem with Rome 2 is lack of features, but more of the bland and empty features that are already in game. The same features that look so good and refined in Attila. (research tree, army and general skill tree) little touches like that would go a very long way in Rome 2.

    True. In Attila it seems they have polished it more. Now it would be the time to do the same for Rome II. It's the flagship of TW games since Rome I and sincerely making the same job for Rome II would be nice.
    Completely agree. Attila looks much more polished and well thought out. Would love to see some of it's content added to R2

    Agree.
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    What does it mean? It sounds to me like "we don't do it as we don't have interest in doing that but we will give you a small content". I don't like this. Attila serves Rome II not the opposite man.
    Vastator wrote: »
    I may understand not using back features such as family tree and more complex ones, since they have not been designed for Rome II.

    But using Attila improvements such as MSAA, improved graphics, some UI improvements, axe animations, improved AI and many others would be easy to do, since the 2 games run on the same engine!
    I honestly will not buy Attila if this will not happen.

    Instead as the engine is the same, the same features in Attila are clearly possible in Rome II. So no excuses for them. I can't care less of Attila game if Rome II is not receiving the same attention especially after so much earning from it in this year.
  • Brutally HonestBrutally Honest Senior Member Posts: 570Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Does this bother you at all? On a personal level that is.

    Don't expect sympathy and I don't mean that in a nasty way but that's just the nature of the job. I admire it as they are able to continue to be professional despite the disasters. We can accept none of the pr team play the game but are charming messengers to their target audience.
    I feel so sorry for the developing team. Due to the lack of communications with the ambitious PR team they've had so much stress and so many problems to deal with.
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,422Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Instead as the engine is the same, the same features in Attila are clearly possible in Rome II. So no excuses for them. I can't care less of Attila game if Rome II is not receiving the same attention especially after so much earning from it in this year.

    Of course they are possible. But implementing complex features such as family tree is (in practice) impossible, because that would require more resources and it will not fit on "CA vision of the game".
    Using some other improvements (e.g. MSAA) should be really easy to do (same engine). I think we should be grateful if they'll do this, behaving differently than what they did for Emp/Nap.
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


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  • Emperor DomitianusEmperor Domitianus Senior Member Posts: 1,243Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Vastator wrote: »
    Of course they are possible. But implementing complex features such as family tree is (in practice) impossible, because that would require more resources and it will not fit on "CA vision of the game".
    Using some other improvements (e.g. MSAA) should be really easy to do (same engine). I think we should be grateful if they'll do this, behaving differently than what they did for Emp/Nap.

    The problem has Always been "their vision". It took 1 year to make them understand.
    However making it for I game is the same making for the other. Same engine, same map and only a make up improving as seen so far so i don't see such difficulty. In practice Attila is the same Rome II with more additions.
  • madmariomadmario Senior Member Posts: 115Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    There's no money in a retrofit. It makes very little business sense with a game of this budget level.

    But no way will I preorder, and I'm heavily disinclined to buy at all--I didn't play Napoleon much, and this seems similar. Unless the Guardian and Joe give the game a glowing review (forget Gamespot, IGN etc.) I can't see me buying.
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  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited September 2014
    Joey CA wrote: »
    At the point, there is no intention to directly do that. However, the New Content Team will continue to work on ROME II.

    I admire your courage. Writting in these forums must be sometimes like a visit to a purgatory.
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