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What exactly do you call a spam?

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  • CagataiKhanCagataiKhan Senior Member Posts: 808Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Should being 6 same unit rule for OP units
    Rome -Hastaiti -Evocorti -Armoured Leg
    Ardai İllyrian Marines
    Helens Tueros spear
    Pontus Noble Cav
    Falx Unit
    Carthage cheap spear

    etc..
  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    I think I figured it out...

    If you have more than 5 of something you have spam build...
    If you have build that is better/counters your opponent it is labeled as troll build...
    If you are using something which your faction is good at...it's OP
    If you have pikes, you are a noob pike boxer...
    If you have artilery you are just a noob...

    I think people should mind their own builds and stop creating artifical "rules" for MP just because it does not suit them.
  • Nelorix,the CaledonianNelorix,the Caledonian Senior Member Serbia,Jagodina/Finland,JyväskyläPosts: 2,163Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    While i do agree with the majority of what you said Dalnar,the artificial rules make the game far more balanced in a competitive scenario/regular battles - otherwise,we`d be seeing a ton of games where one of the players (or both) would bring armies such as 20 horse archers,10 pikes/4 heavily armored hoplites/6 missiles/,4 chariots/4 elephants with supporting leftover units,or Ballistae boxes .

    Admittedly ,all of these are gimmick armies that can be easily countered (with the exception of well-micro`d chariots,who can still kill just about every cav unit in the game if micro`d properly,i`ve been killing everything from median cav to azats with chariots in this patch,even did some crazy damage to cataphracts and outmicrod them so that they couldn`t catch my chariots),but it takes away the fun for 1 player ( if not both,depending on builds) - i don`t see how a cap of let`s say..6 of the same infantry hurts anyone in the long run (you`ve got plenty of other options for infantry of the same type for most factions,if not all,doesn`t matter if it`s the Ardiaei or Iceni or Arevaci),or god forbid a chariot cap when you`re playing a tournament or high-stakes non tournament game,or just a regular game.

    But quick battles will be quick battles,always and everything goes there - i`ve brought some pretty funky builds for the laughs ages ago,they did work great but boy oh boy was i not popular because of them :P
    Reptilicus #1 Nomadic Warlord,multiple tournament winner and slayer of basement dwellers.

    Team Lizardmen
    Team Slaanesh
    Team Beastmen

    My Youtube channel,bringing you competitive multiplayer and campaign guides! :cool: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilicusJungleLair

    Coming back on track with dem uploadz soon !
  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Yes the "rules" can be handy to create fun matches, but overall are just usually made so they suits the needs of the hosts playstyle and his favourite faction.

    If someone "spams" some unit, it usually makes him weaker in some area and that's completely fine by me. But I care very little about what others use :-) Admitedly 4 chariots are pretty stupid atm.
  • Nelorix,the CaledonianNelorix,the Caledonian Senior Member Serbia,Jagodina/Finland,JyväskyläPosts: 2,163Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    When it comes to battles from the "lobby",that does sound absolutely true to be honest,i`ve encountered that quite a lot before. When it comes to tournaments though,the rules are there for different reasons.

    True,and true :D Thankfully,with TW : Attila,the number of gimmick units will be way,way reduced ( unless they decide to give elephants to the Sassanids and make them useful,the elephants that is,i have no doubts that the Sassanids will be a great faction if they`re done properly)
    Reptilicus #1 Nomadic Warlord,multiple tournament winner and slayer of basement dwellers.

    Team Lizardmen
    Team Slaanesh
    Team Beastmen

    My Youtube channel,bringing you competitive multiplayer and campaign guides! :cool: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilicusJungleLair

    Coming back on track with dem uploadz soon !
  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    I'm playing MP as Pontus 95% of the time and my build was called everything. I think it's something like this and I'm very comfortable with it.

    1x royal pontic cav (gen)
    2x eastern spearmen
    3x eastern archer
    3x bronze shield pike
    2x pike
    2x pontic swords
    2x thureos spear
    4x noble blood cav, or 2x noble, 2x pontic royals (and I switch general to one of the bronze shield pikes)

    Deploying in classical formation, eastern spearmen first, archers behind, then line of pikes with thureos on sides and swords behind them. 2 cavs on each side and general behind.

    I was called a "spammer", because supposedly I have too many blood noble cavs, I was called noob pike boxer because I have pikes, it was called troll build because of eastern spearmen (they are supposedly trash and used only by noobs). It was called OP, because it is hellenic faction (they are OP right ?) And people always cry on me "Nooooo chariots". It's like people see red color when they see Pontus.

    So my experience from custom game is something like this. Quick battles, well for some reason they do not start for me and the game usually hangs. Tournaments, well I do not consider myself good player (something like above average at best) so never participated one and can't judge how rules works there.
  • Nelorix,the CaledonianNelorix,the Caledonian Senior Member Serbia,Jagodina/Finland,JyväskyläPosts: 2,163Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Whoah..the build you just described is not even close to being a spammy build. In fact,it sounds like a pretty good build.It`s just..sore loser syndrome kicking in from the opposition.

    Well,you can always add me on steam and we could play some games,i won`t call you a spammer,i`ll call you sexy. When it comes to tournaments,you should give them a go,they`re not that scary,i used to think the same,but i ended up winning the first tournament i ever played pretty easily ( though,i don`t like doing tournaments as of..the last few months. I`ve been feeling kind of burned out with Rome 2,so any excuse to drop or forfeit a tournament is good for me. However,i`ll probably start playing them again now since i`m enjoying patch 15 somewhat more than patch 14 and earlier.)


    In fact,i`ll be hosting a tournament in a couple of weeks - so,Dalnar,you get the honorary invitation :D
    Reptilicus #1 Nomadic Warlord,multiple tournament winner and slayer of basement dwellers.

    Team Lizardmen
    Team Slaanesh
    Team Beastmen

    My Youtube channel,bringing you competitive multiplayer and campaign guides! :cool: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilicusJungleLair

    Coming back on track with dem uploadz soon !
  • jonasneejonasnee Senior Member Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Dalnar wrote: »
    Yes the "rules" can be handy to create fun matches, but overall are just usually made so they suits the needs of the hosts playstyle and his favourite faction.

    If someone "spams" some unit, it usually makes him weaker in some area and that's completely fine by me. But I care very little about what others use :-) Admitedly 4 chariots are pretty stupid atm.
    in high competetive games we need to set some rules to adress unfair play.
    as i have been 1 of the crafting people of both the shogun and the Rome 2 rule-sets i think i may should elaborate a bit more, when i make rule-sets i make it to try and address over powered builds and gimmicky spam like builds, no 1 think its fun going up vs Bactria and realize they went full cav with 12 units charging towards you.
    that said though i never over restrict and i actually view over-restriction as a bad thing, people who limit units and tacs which are never actually used (ie max 6 missiles) are bad and i even once got told by a moron that there should be rules that was "max 8 infantry (all kinds), max 6 cav, max 3 foot missiles" for a shogun ruleset, that which i just described is not a ruleset its a meta set, it does not try to promote fair play or limit OP stuff, all it does is to make the game have 1 or 2 viable armies and dumb the game down to micro.
    really don't misjudge rules made by bad hosts and obviously made to put themselves at an advantage as something that even remotely could be compared to a competitive ruleset.
    put your actions where your mouth is.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TJpmII-kxuM
    Total war is best when it is kept simple and not overly complex
  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    In fact,i`ll be hosting a tournament in a couple of weeks - so,Dalnar,you get the honorary invitation :D

    That's really kind of you, but I'll skip tournaments. Trying to play R2 less and do something more productive after work. :-)) Beside I enjoy watching replays :-)) Too bad there is no website where people share replays (at least I didn't found any).
  • HannibalBarkasHannibalBarkas Senior Member Posts: 2,860Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Dalnar wrote: »
    That's really kind of you, but I'll skip tournaments. Trying to play R2 less and do something more productive after work. :-)) Beside I enjoy watching replays :-)) Too bad there is no website where people share replays (at least I didn't found any).

    Except Youtube maybe? :p

    But I know what you mean.
  • AsleAsle Senior Member Posts: 243Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    At more than 6 of the same unit we're approaching spam territory. For elephants and chariots, anything more than two in total is a bit spammy because of how overpowered they are. An elephant is fine, a chariot is fine but the massive damage two of these can do in seconds makes three spammy, four insane and anything more than that plain rude.

    Evocati.jpg
  • DalnarDalnar Senior Member Posts: 807Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Youtube is good source, but well there is like handful people who make video recording of good matches there. I mean, there are people who post their noob stomps, but seriously who is interested to see that ? I like to watch close battles and see some good tactics from which I could learn some tricks.

    For example like month ago with the patch 15 beta, I have seen some replays where someone playing Armenia used eastern spearmen to cover eastern archers to great effect ! Now that was something I instantly adopted for Pontus and it works great.

    People who do not pay attention auto fire on the spearmen, whilst your archers kills his. Some people even let you to run with your spearmen just before their lines and waste autofire javelins and it also makes their skirmishers to pull back and eat arrows in backs. I understand that what works in custom games probably won't work on experienced players, but still, always good to learn few tricks. Just wish there would be more quality replays out there.
  • CagataiKhanCagataiKhan Senior Member Posts: 808Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    I can see min 14 infantry and more over..The patch is most boring patch... I hope lesser multi playable
    factions in Attila .It is important for balance and enjoy
  • Nelorix,the CaledonianNelorix,the Caledonian Senior Member Serbia,Jagodina/Finland,JyväskyläPosts: 2,163Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Cagatay Khan best Khan
    Reptilicus #1 Nomadic Warlord,multiple tournament winner and slayer of basement dwellers.

    Team Lizardmen
    Team Slaanesh
    Team Beastmen

    My Youtube channel,bringing you competitive multiplayer and campaign guides! :cool: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilicusJungleLair

    Coming back on track with dem uploadz soon !
  • AsleAsle Senior Member Posts: 243Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    EE's multiplayer is superior in every way to every previous patch. You see a much wider variety of builds that are viable now than ever. Give me infantry slogging matches between 12 units any day over 6 elite swords and a few elite cavalry/elephans/chariots. Battles take longer, skirmishers have more time to do their work and it's more important than ever to ensure tactical advantages rather than just attack-ordering your way to victory.

    Being good at this game requires several skills.

    First, understanding what factions match up well against eachother. Then pikcing an effective build, setting it up in an effective manner and being able to use your units to counter enemy units, and using them correctly. This requires knowledge of game mechanics. Good micromanagement skills, fast reaction times and good situational awareness also helps. Being able to take the initiative and read your opponent will also go a long way.

    Having all of these things, or most of them goes a long way in making a player that gets alot of wins, but let's be honest here: We're talking about a computer game. Good sportsmanship is the x-factor, how a player deals with adversity, if he is gracious in defeat and willing to learn something new. That makes the game more enjoyable not only for oneself, but for one's opponents as well.
  • Nelorix,the CaledonianNelorix,the Caledonian Senior Member Serbia,Jagodina/Finland,JyväskyläPosts: 2,163Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Cagatay Khan best Khan


    One love

    One life

    Turan pride steppe wide
    Reptilicus #1 Nomadic Warlord,multiple tournament winner and slayer of basement dwellers.

    Team Lizardmen
    Team Slaanesh
    Team Beastmen

    My Youtube channel,bringing you competitive multiplayer and campaign guides! :cool: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReptilicusJungleLair

    Coming back on track with dem uploadz soon !
  • CagataiKhanCagataiKhan Senior Member Posts: 808Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Cagatay Khan best Khan


    One love

    One life

    Turan pride steppe wide
    You alway spoil me bro
  • L'EspionL'Espion Junior Member Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited October 2014
    Who cares? When I play multiplayer I allow anything my opponent wants to use. The idea is to have fun so create whatever type of army you want.
  • chubbyninja89chubbyninja89 Banned Posts: 1,053Banned Users
    edited October 2014
    I would think spamming really pertains to when someone uses 8+ of anyone one kind of unit. Though the nomadic factions are the exception to that since, you know, they have absolutely no even decent infantry.

    Though I swear I've seen people just spam praetorians or some other elite unit before, and just banzai charge with them. No thought process, just a mass charge. Though a few times in sieges it was pretty hilarious. A couple of them just broke the gate, that's it, and just charged in, making their troops a big mob. It was hilarious.
  • MrYellowMrYellow Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited November 2018
    The term "spam" is very broad and flexible, with most people having different ideas of what it entails.
    However in my personal opinion there are 2 main types of spam:

    1st Unit Spam:
    Basically when you pick a single unit more than lets say, 6 times.
    Total War games have sadly always suffered from unbalanced units in the multiplayer, that are either too powerfull and/or too cost efective. In the case of Shogun 2 in particular. the upgrade and retainer system made some of them even more OP. So by bringing so many of the same unit, "you" are simply abusing bad programing in order to gain a competive advantage.

    2nd Unit Class Spam:
    This would be the equivalent of bringing more than 1/3 - 1/2 of your army of the same unit class.
    Total War games use a Rock - Paper - Scissor system to balance out the units, and once the battle starts the unit selection can not be changed, meaning that there is no real way to adapt(composition wise) to your oponents strategy. So by bringing an army composed almost entirely of one type of unit, you have a very good starting chance of beating anything but an army composed mostly of the counter type of unit. The outcome of said battle is thus very linked to RNG, where one player is already at a hugge handicap before the battle even starts, and skills get relegated to a secondary factor.
    "Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"


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