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CA, please release map editing tools.

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  • MordrethMordreth Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,130
    edited December 2014
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    I don't even want to discuss this. All I'll say is that I also make models for Rome II mods. And I have been getting a lot of requests in the past 4 months. There are simply too few 3D artists in this community.

    And the LotR mods shouldn't be any motivation. Obvious legal issues.

    My point still stands; I would love these tools. But only when more/the people who will actually use them are supporting this thread.

    The only way they are going to get into trouble is if a company is making a game exactly like what they are doing, and no one is.

    They can avoid a lot of issues since they are not making money off it, as well since they are not basing it off the movies, they will avoid more there.
  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,179
    edited December 2014
    Does someone have to waste his time now to create a campaign map in Shogun 2 just to prove to you that he means business?

    Because then the modders will learn the actual workflow and will be capable to use the tools in the first place. If you have no plan, no experience and no intention to get experience from similar tools, I doubt developers will invest in those things. Next thing you know people start to demand full written /1 hour video tutorials. *shudders*

    'The community will be thankful' is hardly true. Modders will be thankful. I've read the accusations on TWC before and after the release of Shogun II's mod tools. Even after release, a lot of people (mostly non-modders) complained the mod tools weren't enough, throwing insults left and right, even to the few modders who knew how those tools worked.

    I am not against the idea and suggestion. I am against parts of the motivation.

    In my opinion there'll need to be a change in mentality. Such as the voice of various team leads of certain projects that need these tools in the first place. I'll happily throw in my support for such a request on behalf of the mod team I am part of, but will not when it ends up in a giant rage when/if the tools are eventually released (like last time).
    Grudge's Mods
    Total War: Karling - Coming soon...-ish
    Grudge's Total War: Attila - Sassanid UI skin here on the Steam Workshop
  • Arcanus97Arcanus97 Senior Member The SouthRegistered Users Posts: 810
    edited December 2014
    I support this.
    Grace CA wrote: »
    I, for one, welcome our new Corgi overlords.

  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,423
    edited December 2014
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    'The community will be thankful' is hardly true. I've read the accusations on TWC before and after the release of Shogun II's mod tools. Even after release, a lot of people (mostly non-modders) complained the mod tools weren't enough, throwing insults left and right, even to the few modders who knew how those tools worked.

    With 'The community will be thankful' i think he meant that doing such operations (releasing modding tools, modding awards) increase CA reputation among all its customers and its potential ones. Which in return increase people willingness to continue support the company in the future. Something that's definitely true.

    I don't think that one or two (maybe they were 4, or 9?) guys on TWC saying "CA you poop" could be taken in account for this, and i don't think a big company such as CA does care about such tiny numbers.
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
  • SebideeSebidee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,801
    edited December 2014
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    Because then the modders will learn the actual workflow and will be capable to use the tools in the first place. If you have no plan, no experience and no intention to get experience from similar tools, I doubt developers will invest in those things. Next thing you know people start to demand full written /1 hour video tutorials. *shudders*

    'The community will be thankful' is hardly true. Modders will be thankful. I've read the accusations on TWC before and after the release of Shogun II's mod tools. Even after release, a lot of people (mostly non-modders) complained the mod tools weren't enough, throwing insults left and right, even to the few modders who knew how those tools worked.

    I am not against the idea and suggestion. I am against parts of the motivation.

    In my opinion there'll need to be a change in mentality. Such as the voice of various team leads of certain projects that need these tools in the first place.

    The thing is, people want CA to make the mods FOR THEM. Which is of course ridiculous.
  • Mr_JMr_J Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 296
    edited December 2014
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    Accepting something as valid is highly subjective. Counter arguments are deffinitely there. If you feel I was offended, not my intention at all. I just completely disagree with the way this community askes for new mod tools.
    If you say campaign map is a 3d model then it's not that hard to work on: there are few ways to make custom one:
    1. Use heightmap plus 3d max tool for plane (I guess you can move vertexes only by Z-axis(height));
    2. Copy spots like mountains and merge with new map;
    3. Another long long way to move each vertex(one-by-one).
    P.S. I don't have Shogun2 and I have no imagination how campaign modding works there. Above points are only my ideas based on my knowledges.

    I know some people who knows how to import 3d models to the game and of course how to create them(:D).
    Also just remember first modding years from another games: A couple of modders use a lot of free time to find out how to do this or that and then they post a tutorial. Other modders with less time learn it and in this way community grows. If we get all we need(tools) then in near 1-2 years we can expect overhaul mods. Think about it..
  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,179
    edited December 2014
    Mr. J wrote: »
    If you say campaign map is a 3d model then it's not that hard to work on: there are few ways to make custom one:
    1. Use heightmap plus 3d max tool for plane (I guess you can move vertexes only by Z-axis(height));
    2. Copy spots like mountains and merge with new map;
    3. Another long long way to move each vertex(one-by-one).
    P.S. I don't have Shogun2 and I have no imagination how campaign modding works there. Above points are only my ideas based on my knowledges.

    I know some people who knows how to import 3d models to the game and of course how to create them(:D).


    A height map is only part of the process. A height map is a black-white picture only for Shogun II. You have an entire max file dedicated to regions. Don't know if pathfinding is included in that, but there are also various CS2 files (possibly exported from that max file). This is all Shogun II ofcourse. Rome II, I imagine may be a tad more complicated.
    Also just remember first modding years from another games: A couple of modders use a lot of free time to find out how to do this or that and then they post a tutorial. Other modders with less time learn it and in this way community grows. If we get all we need(tools) then in near 1-2 years we can expect overhaul mods. Think about it..

    There is also barely any certainty this will happen based on the arguments in the OP. What needs to happen is modders who have and/or will use these tools. I don't think developers happily release tools knowing there's a large chance barely anyone will use them.

    Again. Not against the idea. I am against the motivation.
    Grudge's Mods
    Total War: Karling - Coming soon...-ish
    Grudge's Total War: Attila - Sassanid UI skin here on the Steam Workshop
  • Mr_JMr_J Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 296
    edited December 2014
    Cmon many will start use such tools but not many will be good with them. If you dedicate needed time for the tool you will be good in it and that's what I'd like to do if I get such tool/source.
    Yes now I see the process of map editing and this will bring a lot of fun, bugs, nerves and time used:cool:
  • HannibalBarkasHannibalBarkas Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,860
    edited December 2014
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    A height map is only part of the process. A height map is a black-white picture only for Shogun II. You have an entire max file dedicated to regions. Don't know if pathfinding is included in that, but there are also various CS2 files (possibly exported from that max file). This is all Shogun II ofcourse. Rome II, I imagine may be a tad more complicated.

    None of that is extremely difficult. The biggest difficulty is having the right programs.
    There is also barely any certainty this will happen based on the arguments in the OP. What needs to happen is modders who have and/or will use these tools. I don't think developers happily release tools knowing there's a large chance barely anyone will use them.

    Again. Not against the idea. I am against the motivation.

    Of course there is no certainty. What do you want to happen for CA to release the tools? This is not the first thread on this topic. There have been hundreds from modders and non-modders. What more needs to be done?

    PS: Please don't project the behaviour of some idiots on TWC to the whole community. We all know that forum is full of CA haters.
  • HannibalBarkasHannibalBarkas Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,860
    edited December 2014
    Just for the fun of it I tried to mess around with the campaign map a bit. The system doesn't look very complicated, standard stuff actually but very bloated. However you need the plugin for cs2 files which is provided only for the versions 2009 and 2010 of 3ds Max. Both of them are not available anymore. So as it seems modding the campaign map in Shogun 2 isn't even possible anymore as the provided plugins are outdated.
  • LiberalsSuckitLiberalsSuckit Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1
    edited January 2015
    I concur. I registered just to comment on this thread. I bought medieval 2 kingdoms twice just to play the third age mod. The disk became unplayable so I spent money on your product again just to play that amazing mod. Later I played the actual game and loved it. Please release a map editor at the very least once the DLC is finally done releasing for Rome 2. The community wants this so badly.
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