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Huns's descendants horse archery

CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior MemberPosts: 814Registered Users
edited January 2015 in General Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU
Huns horse archer power must be shown in Atiila. All infantry unit shouldnt javelin shot a lot of times..
Post edited by CagatayKhan on
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Comments

  • DetailedEyesDetailedEyes Senior Member AustraliaPosts: 4,715Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    I don't see how that last part is relevant seeing as a lot of soldiers did have javelins, but strong horse archers I'm fine with.
    "We shall have peace. We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the children that lie dead there. When the lives of the soldiers, whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the Gates of the Hornburg are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet, for the sport of your own crows, we shall have peace."

    Theoden to Saruman at Orthanc, also my total war philosophy.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,345Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    All infantry unit shouldnt javelin shot a lot of times..

    Javelins and Darts were very commonly carried by infantry in this era. Why do you think that they should be cut and history ignored?

    The rapid fire wouldn't be to much of a problem as they could just increase how quickly the unit reloads their bows.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    A half-naked spearmen maked dozens of shoot with javelins.. Is it realistic?. A infantry ,sperman carry 2-3 javelin.He can shoot them before close combatThere arent problem...
  • DetailedEyesDetailedEyes Senior Member AustraliaPosts: 4,715Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Yeah and most units in Rome for example have 2 javelins, 3 or 5 for a few exceptions. The one unit that could have that complaint made is the skiritai which isn't even available in multiplayer or most of the campaigns.
    "We shall have peace. We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the children that lie dead there. When the lives of the soldiers, whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the Gates of the Hornburg are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet, for the sport of your own crows, we shall have peace."

    Theoden to Saruman at Orthanc, also my total war philosophy.
  • ☢Wraith of Pegasus☢Wraith of Pegasus Member Posts: 88Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    A half-naked spearmen maked dozens of shoot with javelins.. Is it realistic?. A infantry ,sperman carry 2-3 javelin.He can shoot them before close combatThere arent problem...
    This is all fairy tail Persian had better horse archers.
    ☢Exponential Decay☢
  • SebideeSebidee Senior Member Posts: 3,798Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Cool video I enjoyed it!

    I hope something like this doesn't make the Huns too OP :)

    By the way, how similar were the Huns to the Mongols?
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,345Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    A half-naked spearmen maked dozens of shoot with javelins.. Is it realistic?. A infantry ,sperman carry 2-3 javelin.He can shoot them before close combatThere arent problem...

    Speaking of this time period, the Roman infantrymen often times carried around half a dozen plumbatae (Lead Weighted Darts). So it isn't that far fetched for them to have this. In Rome 2 most infantry (I'm not speaking of skirmishers) carry 2 javelins which is realistic for them (so if the unit has 160 men in it that is 320).

    I'm not sure that I'm fully understanding the comments you are making...
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • madwapitimadwapiti Senior Member Posts: 602Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Cool video and very impressive technique.

    I'm worried about the Huns being OP in the GC. Hopefully they compensate by giving shields a better "block" bonus. An solider with a shield in a braced/shieldwalled unit should be pretty hard kill.

    A soldier behind a scutum is more that 3/4ths covered, and a unit in testudo would be neigh impregnable.
  • LinkeLinke Senior Member Posts: 821Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    This is all fairy tail Persian had better horse archers.
    I've never heard of Persian horse archers. Research I've done for mods show they were mostly infantry with the Persian cavalry being heavy cavalry. Unless you mean the Parthians
  • TheDeaconBoscoTheDeaconBosco Member Posts: 83Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Linke wrote: »
    I've never heard of Persian horse archers. Research I've done for mods show they were mostly infantry with the Persian cavalry being heavy cavalry. Unless you mean the Parthians

    The Sassanian army also adopted horse archers at some point, for the Arab Caliphate's forces only started using heavy horse archers after the fall of the Sassanids and these were said to be of both Persian or Turkish origin.
    If you know anything about the Romano Berber states, send me a PM.
  • gage2617gage2617 Senior Member Posts: 751Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    I feel like naturally the Huns will have, and should have, the best horse archers. Not to the extent that they are massively OP compared to other factions' horse archers, like the Sassanids, but a bit better. Still, I feel like in a shootout, foot archers should still be superior to horse archers. The foot archers would outnumber them, would be in a loose formation, and the horse archers are significantly larger and easier targets, even when they are moving.
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynPosts: 10,688Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    gage2617 wrote: »
    I feel like naturally the Huns will have, and should have, the best horse archers. Not to the extent that they are massively OP compared to other factions' horse archers, like the Sassanids, but a bit better. Still, I feel like in a shootout, foot archers should still be superior to horse archers. The foot archers would outnumber them, would be in a loose formation, and the horse archers are significantly larger and easier targets, even when they are moving.

    Quite right. :) As skilled as the Huns were, they could be, and indeed were beaten. I'd rather that this not be ignored.
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  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    This is all fairy tail Persian had better horse archers.
    I think that Parthians and Sasanids adopted from nomads It just is warfare tactic for sasanids. But It is lifestyle for nomads. nomads riding horse and mounted archert since childhood..Nomads have to better horse archery...
  • roflrofl Member Posts: 88Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Linke wrote: »
    I've never heard of Persian horse archers. Research I've done for mods show they were mostly infantry with the Persian cavalry being heavy cavalry. Unless you mean the Parthians
    The Persians have been doing it for a long time.

    "Their sons are carefully instructed from their fifth to their twentieth year, in three things alone---to ride, to draw the bow, and to speak the truth." -Herodotus

    However, I agree with the rest. The nomads should have the best horse archers for gameplay reasons.
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 1,351Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Sebidee wrote: »
    By the way, how similar were the Huns to the Mongols?

    The tactics were more or less the same but the Mongols were much better armed. A lot changes in about 1000 years.
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  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    rofl wrote: »
    The Persians have been doing it for a long time.

    "Their sons are carefully instructed from their fifth to their twentieth year, in three things alone---to ride, to draw the bow, and to speak the truth." -Herodotus

    However, I agree with the rest. The nomads should have the best horse archers for gameplay reasons.
    Nomads had lived in world in living Heredotus time. It is not proof that parthians discovered horse archery.. Heredotus were some historan ,some myth teller..How can Massagate ,Mongols,Seljuks ,Timurds defeat Persia all times :).They are good at miltitary.They have better cavalry ,horse archer,army
  • SebideeSebidee Senior Member Posts: 3,798Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Did the Huns ride European horses or the Mongol ponies?
  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Sebidee wrote: »
    Did the Huns ride European horses or the Mongol ponies?
    Asian horse.. Is their name Mongol ponies? . They are more endurance against long spirnt and snow...
  • roflrofl Member Posts: 88Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Nomads had lived in world in living Heredotus time. It is not proof that parthians discovered horse archery.. Heredotus were some historan ,some myth teller..How can Massagate ,Mongols,Seljuks ,Timurds defeat Persia all times :).They are good at miltitary.They have better cavalry ,horse archer,army
    I'm pretty sure I didn't say the Parthians discovered horse archery.

    If Herodotus is just some myth teller then the Massagetae beating the Persians is just a fairy tale because the Massagetae weren't mentioned by Xenephon and the rest. I'm pretty sure the Massagetae= Saka haumavarga and they were conquered by the Achaemenids. As for the Mongols, Seljuks and Timurids Persia was divided and weak. Also, you didn't mention the Gokturks.
  • LinkeLinke Senior Member Posts: 821Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    The Sassanian army also adopted horse archers at some point, for the Arab Caliphate's forces only started using heavy horse archers after the fall of the Sassanids and these were said to be of both Persian or Turkish origin.

    Oh nevermind I thougt this was Rome II forum and you were talking about Achaemenid Persians, I known little of
    Sassanid Persia
  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Linke wrote: »
    Oh nevermind I thougt this was Rome II forum and you were talking about Achaemenid Persians, I known little of
    Sassanid Persia
    Gokturks politics are balsnced between Byzantion and Sasanids..Gokturks had diffrent problems . They arent intersted for Persia ..I use reagional term as "persia".. I dont hear Achamanedis using horse archery.Maybe they use Sacaen mercenary horse archer
  • roflrofl Member Posts: 88Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    The Gokturks wouldn't have started a war if they weren't intrested in Persia. The Achaemenids did use horse archers. Achaemenids horse archers were mentioned in Anabasis and Gadal-lama's inscription proves it.
  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    rofl wrote: »
    The Gokturks wouldn't have started a war if they weren't intrested in Persia. The Achaemenids did use horse archers. Achaemenids horse archers were mentioned in Anabasis and Gadal-lama's inscription proves it.
    Gokturks Khagan's center setlled centra asia. Gokturks 's start vassal of Sienpi( Mongolic).. Independence war, tribal war, war for controlling trade route with China are %95 all of gokturks war ...Gokturks are alliance with Byzantion. Because they war against Sasanids 1-2 times
  • darthfantadarthfanta Senior Member Posts: 367Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    I think that Parthians and Sasanids adopted from nomads It just is warfare tactic for sasanids. But It is lifestyle for nomads. nomads riding horse and mounted archert since childhood..Nomads have to better horse archery...
    More precisely,nomad horse archers were described as fighting more 'freely',apparently lacking any formations but with more individual initiative while Persian or East Roman horse archers are more often than not locked into much rigid formations,
  • ☢Wraith of Pegasus☢Wraith of Pegasus Member Posts: 88Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    darthfanta wrote: »
    More precisely,nomad horse archers were described as fighting more 'freely',apparently lacking any formations but with more individual initiative while Persian or East Roman horse archers are more often than not locked into much rigid formations,
    Indeed plus it is Parthia shot, and Sassanian used Parthia in their army so if anything they should have better horse archers.
    ☢Exponential Decay☢
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,625Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    This is all fairy tail Persian had better horse archers.

    Nope. Nomads always were better on horse back; horse archers and heavy cavalry if we talk about the Sarmatians (Alans in Attila).
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  • gage2617gage2617 Senior Member Posts: 751Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Indeed plus it is Parthia shot, and Sassanian used Parthia in their army so if anything they should have better horse archers.

    The Huns would likely employ Parthian shot as well. Just because the technique is named after Parthia, does not mean they are better than all others just because the Sassanids control Parthia. With that same logic, I could conclude that the Western Roman Empire should have the best horse archers because they controlled Cantabria at the time. It is nonsense.

    For gameplay reasons, I think the Huns should have the best horse archers, but at a small margin. This is because realistically the Byzantines and Sassanids would outclass the Huns in all other forms of warfare due to their centralized command structure and professional soldiery. The real advantage to the Huns was that they were incredibly mobile, and their being nomadic allowed them the ability to attack when and where they were strong, but stay out of reach where they were weak, and this is most accurately reflected in the hit and run ability of horse archers.
  • TuranistTuranist Senior Member Posts: 416Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    This is all fairy tail Persian had better horse archers.

    Its better to hear fairy tails from Persians.

    Its a known fact with evidence that Turkic(Turanian) people were the best in archery. No offence.
  • ColeusColeus Senior Member Western Roman EmpirePosts: 666Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Horse archers aside, what really set the Huns apart from the other barbarians was their ability to take cities like Naissus; heavily fortified and well garrisoned fortresses. The Huns will need to beaten by more than just a line of archers protected by some spearmen or the campaign will fall flat. I'm hoping we'll see more allied warfare to meet and beat the common foe.
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  • CagatayKhanCagatayKhan Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    edited December 2014
    Indeed plus it is Parthia shot, and Sassanian used Parthia in their army so if anything they should have better horse archers.
    Parthian shot is western term..Nomads definitely can shoot backward on horseback
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