Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Guide to Building an Army

Face-sploderFace-sploder Senior MemberPosts: 536Registered Users
edited August 2011 in Total War: Shogun 2
In this guide I will give you hints, tips and all the information you need in order to build a successful army. First of all I'll start with some basic tips.


What Type?

Whatever your reasons are from experimentation, to negating clan bonuses, to attacking that heavy cavalry army you scouted before, or simply making an army that can tackle any type of danger that it encounters the first thing you have to do is to think of how you want to build it. I personally find that make-it-up-as-you-go armies tend to be less successful then their more planned out cousins for many reasons. Here are some of the most obvious examples

-You can plan to have an agent actively oversee your army in order to make up for its weaknesses (an Oda ashigaru army with a monk can be very effective under the right player)
-You can plan to tackle certain forces with a planned army
-An army that knows its weaknesses beforehand can have pre-made formation already planned out
-Generals can only specialize, so if you have an army for their specialization they can be much more effective
-An army that is too unbalanced can be easily destroyed by a more balanced army.
-A planned out army can effectively use clan specializations (although you should never base an army solely on specialization, a.k.a. an all bow Chosokabe army will not be more effective then a half and half Chosokabe army, will talk about more in the next section)
-A planned out army can either specialize in either pitched battles or sieges and be more effective in it's "comfort zone"



Balance

I cannot say the word enough. You have by this point decided on your armies style but I decided this tip deserves a section all its own. No matter the army style you should always maintain some form of balance and no making an all bow stack and "always" having a melee stack right beside it does not count as by the time reinforcements come your bows might already be dead. Lets make a line with 10 ticks across it. Tick 0 is absolutely, perfectly, balanced with the same number of all troops types. Tick 10 is an army that has absolutely no balance (a.k.a. an all katana cavalry force.)

key: green= "sweet spot," highly recommended
yellow= not the best choice but workable to used correctly
red= You will REALLY need to know what you are doing to use thhis army well
blue= don't even think about it buddy unless you think the disband button isn't painful enough for your troops.

l---------l


the reason the most balanced army isn't the best is because having a specialized tactic can give you a strong counter-attack should you find yourself losing, unlike a completely balanced army. It is also worth noting some units just aren't worth a lot of unless it is a special occasion ( a.k.a. siege engines in pitched battle, cavalry as an attacker at siege, ect.)

Cost=Value?
That would be wrong, very wrong. Value of something is not determined by its cost, it is determined by its efficiency:cost:budget. To calculate a value simply calculate how much can this destroy not by itself but with the other units in your army. Though hero can destroy little by themselves they can more then live up to their cost by simply having escorts. The reason budget is in there as well is because sometimes even though your armies value is larger then it's cost (which is a very good thing) sometimes your enemy simply has more money to spend then you. In this case you not only have to have your armies value over its cost, but have its value a certain amount over its cost. Many things can help you increase the value of your army (though you an count value in units I would recommend to count the value of armies instead as an army must work together to function properly.)

-fight in larger numbers (don't separate your forces)
-fight against smaller numbers (separate your enemies units and take them out one by one)
-focusing on one unit (mostly referring to focus fire but focus charging too)
-right unit, right situation (not charging archers into melee or doing things like that)
-unit grouping (grouping together hero's and their escorts)
-compatibility (making sure that your units can function together properly [matchlock ashigaru and matchlock samurai don't work well with bow units])
-being a defender in a siege battle
-using good formation
-using abilities for effective counters (spear wall to counter charging units, especially cavalry)



Ashigaru or Hero?

One of the important questions in army building is how much should I invest into each unit. There really is no right answer. Although balanced should be maintained in some cases players have used all samurai or all ashigaru armies and done extremely well, this just takes experience. Although in some cases it will be better to take one or the other (if for example you have a huge armor bonus in your province ashigaru should be a no-brainer) it's mostly based on you and how you play. As time goes on you'll develop your own unique style and you can use this style to know how much you invest into each unit whether it be samurai, ashigaru, hero or anything in-between.



Navies
Almost all of the things on here will also apply to navies. It is still important to pick a style, use your advantages, maintain balance and make tough decisions whether on pixelated land or pixelated water.



Questions about Specific Situations
This is a general guide and if you have specific questions on things like sieges, using a certain clan or anything else that only applies in certain situations check out Kurkistan's Guide to the Guides thread (you will find it stickied) for other guides, search your question up in Google or simply ask your fellow war-gamers.


Thank you for taking the time to read this guide :D




The following has also been posted by Holy.Death in the comments below and it was just too amazing to leave out. Thanks Holy.Death you're amazing!!! Read his great stuff below! (Everything above this message is mine.)

I'll describe units advantages.

Cavalry:

Light cavalry is fast and has very good charge bonus. It's also most basic cavalry unit in Shogun 2. Until you can afford anything else I advise to have at least 2 units of light cavalry. You can hide them in the woods to attack opponent from behind and shatter his morale, you can use them to hunt down fleeing units, kill archers or bow cavalry. They also have lowest morale of all cavalry units in game, less armour (avoid arrows) and melee attack/defence than katana cavalry so I advise to get rid of them as soon as you can get anything else. Prolonged melee combat with anyone (even archers) can be deadly for them, so keep in mind to disengage and charge again.

Katana cavalry has the biggest armour, morale, melee defence/attack stats of all cavalry units in game. They also can be useful when attacking castle walls from different direction than your main army due to all their stats and the fact they are samurai on foot when dismounted. Best all-rounders, it's always useful to have unit of them or even two. Can even engage in melee for a while longer and do so better than any other cavalry unit.

Yari cavalry: If you want your enemies to fall down like grass, these guys are right men for the job. Top speed, good morale, top charge bonus, bonus vs cavalry and some armour make them excellent when charging down infantry at flanks or from the rear, especially non-spear infantry, because you don't need to surround them, just charge head-on and against cavalry due to their bonuses. However, prolonged melee fighting is unadvised, save for cavalry engagements. Dismounted can fill the yari samurai role.

Bow cavalry: Good harrasment units. Somehow simillar to archers but they have horses so they can run fast to not get cought. In extreme situations can serve as equivalent of light cavalry. Do not engage them against anything heavier than archers or they'll suffer from prolongued combat.

Conclusion: Light cavalry is good as a start. Then choose yari cavalry to charge down your enemy or attack cavalry units but remember to disengage once charge is done and then do that again, avoid archers. Katana can fulfill same role but can fight in prolonging melee combat without being wiped out. Bow archers are good for harrasment but shouldn't take arrows on them or engage in melee except emergency cases.

Bows:

Bow ashigaru: Common people with bow and arrows to fire at the enemy. Since bulk of your archers should be bow ashigaru should be wise to learn a few things. They're cheap, numerous and have sufficent accuracy to shoot down foes from afar. They also have bad morale, armour, melee defence/attack and armour. Keep the general nearby, don't let enemy melee or cavalry come close enough to get them, don't let them engage in melee yourself except in case of emergency add monk to inspire your army.

Bow samurai: Warriors skilled in use of bow and sword. They are overall better than bow ashigaru. They beat them having better reloading skill, accuracy, melee defence/attack, morale and armour. They are fewer and cost more upkeep. Suggestion is to keep 1 bow samurai for each 2 bow ashigaru so peasants can take most arrows onto themselves while leaving your samurai fresh. Good in combat enough to defend themself or as flanking force when out of arrows, also better morale allow them to fight longer.

Bow warrior monks: Masters of bows. Targets are dead when their hands let the chord go. Very expensive and very good. While having superior range, accuracy, reloading and morale they also have weak armour, so don't let them get attacked by the enemy cavalry or arrows which can be deadly. They also have some special skills that inspire fear in an enemy army.

Conclusion: Because it's hard to maintain full bow samurai army you should mix all three unit types. Make bow ashigaru at 2 to 1 ratio comparing them to bow samurai and try to recruit at least one or two bow warrior monks. Preferably use ashigaru as meatshield to protect your samurai and - more importantly - your bow warrior monks, because they have little armour and peasants are cheap to recruit and maintain.

Matchlocks:

Imported matchlock ashigaru: Just peasants with firearms. Huge recruitment cost and ability to shoot down katana master with a single pull of the trigger. You can treat them just like bow ashigaru, except they have lower range of fire, less amunition and reload slower. Bonuses? Devastating damage and can break morale better.

Matchlock ashigaru: Almost the same as imported matchlock ashigaru except they cost much less in recruitment and upkeep AND are a little less accurate and reload half as fast. If you think who should you hire I'd say to pick up these ones.

Matchlock samurai: What can be said? Samurai with firearms. They also can defend themself against melee opponents for a while, so they are not totally defenseless. Not sure if they should be deployed as you can get ashigaru who cost one third in upkeep and fire just as good, it's up to you.

Matchlock warrior monks: Holy men with guns. They can shoot enemy in the eye from hundred meters, reload faster than any other matchlock unit, have good morale but is vurneable against missile troops and cavalry charges. The best matchlock unit in game.

Conclussion: As matchlock ashigaru are overall cheaper than imported matchlock ashigaru I advise you to get them rather than the latter. Bullets kill the same. Matchlock warrior monks also should be recruited - at least one unit - because of their superior skills. Remember to keep them shielded.

Swordsmen:

Katana samurai: are swordsmen with good armour and melee defence who also have nice melee attack and charge bonus. Use them early as counter for any spear unit and archers but avoid cavalry and arrows if you can.

No-dachi: Having almost no armour and very weak melee defence skills these troops have the best melee attack and charge bonus of all sword-oriented units. Arrows are deadly for them and can decimate many men, they also can counter cavalry. Shouldn't take part in defense and during castle siege when enemy has archers.

Conclussion: It's up to you, if you have good swordsmen with some defense against arrows and melee you can pick up samurai and if you want to be entirely on offensive - no-dachi are the way to go. There aren't good solutions really. You shouldn't take them if you want to capture castles because towers and archers will kill them quickly and there is little space to charge once you're inside the outer walls.

Yari:

Yari ashigaru: Commoners with pointy sticks. They are cheap, numerous and are good against cavalry because they get bonus against horsemen. You'll get quite a number of them because you'll want to keep your army as cheap and effective as possible but they can't match swordsmen, naginata and ninjas. They die fast to missles due to their weak armour and have low morale so keep general or/and monk in the army to keep them fighting.

Yari samurai: Warriors with spears. uBetter in everything than yari ashigaru and the best anti-cavalry unit but double as costly in upkeep and even more to recruit. Try to keep 1 to 2 ratio when comparing them to yari and use them as best troops who will be victorious where ashigaru alone won't stand a chance.

Conclussion: Use yari ashigaru as main body of the army and fill the holes, if you find them, with yari samurai or just put yari samurai where you expect fighting to be the fireces. Yari samurai's special ability and superior armour combined with better melee defence/attack stats make them also better suited as charge troops if you don't have any katana or do-dachi yet.

Special troops:

Fire bomb throwers: A few men with deadly packages in their hand. They can blow up structures or people and fast. Excellent when you defend against large numbers of foes on bridge or in tiny passes or during sieges if you have to destroy some buildings or defenders in particular place. Small in number and vulnerable to missiles.

Conclussion: They can be usefull sometimes and sometimes they aren't. It all depends on the situation.

Naginata samurai: Walking armours, literally. Somewhere in-between compared to katana and yari samurai. They'll have hard times trying to withstand charge from katana samurai and even from from no-dachi and aren't nearly as good as yari samurai when it comes to taking down cavalry but their superior armour and balanced skills are make them good against archers (because can take more arrows due to their armour) and should suffice against cavalry and ashigaru troops. Try not to engage dedicated sword units tough.

Naginata warrior monks: Same as in the other cases - don't let them to stand under enemy missles due to their weak armour and let them to fight either against cavalry or any melee troops because they have good melee attack/defence, bonus fighting cavalry and when charging.

Conclussion: Monks are good in hand-to-hand combat but suffer from arrows. Naginata samurai on the other hand are more resistant to arrows and fight well enough against non-sword oriented units. It seems good to place naginata samurai before archers because in that way you'll provide shield for your archers and naginata's armour is good enough to withstand many projectiles so they should be first to assail the walls of the enemy city.

Kisho ninja: They are few and cost much, they can't survive cavalry charge and can't compete with dedicated swordsmen like no-dachi but in return offer many assets. They have pretty good melee attack with very good charge bonus and decent melee defence. They morale is as high as those of warrior monks. They also make use of blind grenades which make enemy infantry suffer because it lowers their stats for a few moments. They can easily climb on walls and are invisible as long as they walk the battlefield.

Conclussion: Kisho ninja can preform a variety of roles; they can hide behind an enemy army to either kill its general or strike troops in supprise attack after blinding their main line thus leaving enemy troops vulnerable to your forces. They are invisible when they walk and with their special skill can ever run while remaining hidden. They can climb on the walls to supprise defenders and attack them from the rear or try to take main flag and end siege without the need to kill all defenders. Finally they are fine swordsmen and can put a good fight against most units. Avoid missiles because kisho ninja aren't too heavily armoured.


Once again thank you very much Holy.Death for this extra section!
Post edited by Face-sploder on

Comments

  • pickledpicklespickledpickles Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    in a siege battle it may be a good idea to have the first army attacking to have a lot more archers and siege units than your would usually have in a normal battle, because when they run out of ammo, you can retreat them off the map, and get reinforcements from another army, that's the only time i can think it can be a good idea to stack certain units.
  • QzlingQzling Member Posts: 32Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    the guide tells me nothing aside from very very basic stuff. It will be nice if you explain more about army combination, when you said balance, i can fill my army with one of each unit and its still balance, but not necessary good for my army. good effort though
  • Face-sploderFace-sploder Senior Member Posts: 536Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    like I said in the guide I made this very general because I didn't want to overcrowd a new players head. If you are a TW veteran you should most definitely know all this stuff. The problem is if I went into more detail I would have to do everything in more detail (lets say I went into detailed siege but not detail pitched battle a play might mistake siege battle strategies for pitched battle strategies.)

    Like I said for specific things there are detailed guides that a general guide just cannot compete with so I'd rather you went to those because you would have much better resources at your disposal.
  • Holy.DeathHoly.Death Senior Member Posts: 453Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    I'll describe units advantages.

    Cavalry:

    Light cavalry is fast and has very good charge bonus. It's also most basic cavalry unit in Shogun 2. Until you can afford anything else I advise to have at least 2 units of light cavalry. You can hide them in the woods to attack opponent from behind and shatter his morale, you can use them to hunt down fleeing units, kill archers or bow cavalry. They also have lowest morale of all cavalry units in game, less armour (avoid arrows) and melee attack/defence than katana cavalry so I advise to get rid of them as soon as you can get anything else. Prolonged melee combat with anyone (even archers) can be deadly for them, so keep in mind to disengage and charge again.

    Katana cavalry has the biggest armour, morale, melee defence/attack stats of all cavalry units in game. They also can be useful when attacking castle walls from different direction than your main army due to all their stats and the fact they are samurai on foot when dismounted. Best all-rounders, it's always useful to have unit of them or even two. Can even engage in melee for a while longer and do so better than any other cavalry unit.

    Yari cavalry: If you want your enemies to fall down like grass, these guys are right men for the job. Top speed, good morale, top charge bonus, bonus vs cavalry and some armour make them excellent when charging down infantry at flanks or from the rear, especially non-spear infantry, because you don't need to surround them, just charge head-on and against cavalry due to their bonuses. However, prolonged melee fighting is unadvised, save for cavalry engagements. Dismounted can fill the yari samurai role.

    Bow cavalry: Good harrasment units. Somehow simillar to archers but they have horses so they can run fast to not get cought. In extreme situations can serve as equivalent of light cavalry. Do not engage them against anything heavier than archers or they'll suffer from prolongued combat.

    Conclusion: Light cavalry is good as a start. Then choose yari cavalry to charge down your enemy or attack cavalry units but remember to disengage once charge is done and then do that again, avoid archers. Katana can fulfill same role but can fight in prolonging melee combat without being wiped out. Bow archers are good for harrasment but shouldn't take arrows on them or engage in melee except emergency cases.

    Bows:

    Bow ashigaru: Common people with bow and arrows to fire at the enemy. Since bulk of your archers should be bow ashigaru should be wise to learn a few things. They're cheap, numerous and have sufficent accuracy to shoot down foes from afar. They also have bad morale, armour, melee defence/attack and armour. Keep the general nearby, don't let enemy melee or cavalry come close enough to get them, don't let them engage in melee yourself except in case of emergency add monk to inspire your army.

    Bow samurai: Warriors skilled in use of bow and sword. They are overall better than bow ashigaru. They beat them having better reloading skill, accuracy, melee defence/attack, morale and armour. They are fewer and cost more upkeep. Suggestion is to keep 1 bow samurai for each 2 bow ashigaru so peasants can take most arrows onto themselves while leaving your samurai fresh. Good in combat enough to defend themself or as flanking force when out of arrows, also better morale allow them to fight longer.

    Bow warrior monks: Masters of bows. Targets are dead when their hands let the chord go. Very expensive and very good. While having superior range, accuracy, reloading and morale they also have weak armour, so don't let them get attacked by the enemy cavalry or arrows which can be deadly. They also have some special skills that inspire fear in an enemy army.

    Conclusion: Because it's hard to maintain full bow samurai army you should mix all three unit types. Make bow ashigaru at 2 to 1 ratio comparing them to bow samurai and try to recruit at least one or two bow warrior monks. Preferably use ashigaru as meatshield to protect your samurai and - more importantly - your bow warrior monks, because they have little armour and peasants are cheap to recruit and maintain.

    Matchlocks:

    Imported matchlock ashigaru: Just peasants with firearms. Huge recruitment cost and ability to shoot down katana master with a single pull of the trigger. You can treat them just like bow ashigaru, except they have lower range of fire, less amunition and reload slower. Bonuses? Devastating damage and can break morale better.

    Matchlock ashigaru: Almost the same as imported matchlock ashigaru except they cost much less in recruitment and upkeep AND are a little less accurate and reload half as fast. If you think who should you hire I'd say to pick up these ones.

    Matchlock samurai: What can be said? Samurai with firearms. They also can defend themself against melee opponents for a while, so they are not totally defenseless. Not sure if they should be deployed as you can get ashigaru who cost one third in upkeep and fire just as good, it's up to you.

    Matchlock warrior monks: Holy men with guns. They can shoot enemy in the eye from hundred meters, reload faster than any other matchlock unit, have good morale but is vurneable against missile troops and cavalry charges. The best matchlock unit in game.

    Conclussion: As matchlock ashigaru are overall cheaper than imported matchlock ashigaru I advise you to get them rather than the latter. Bullets kill the same. Matchlock warrior monks also should be recruited - at least one unit - because of their superior skills. Remember to keep them shielded.

    Swordsmen:

    Katana samurai: are swordsmen with good armour and melee defence who also have nice melee attack and charge bonus. Use them early as counter for any spear unit and archers but avoid cavalry and arrows if you can.

    No-dachi: Having almost no armour and very weak melee defence skills these troops have the best melee attack and charge bonus of all sword-oriented units. Arrows are deadly for them and can decimate many men, they also can counter cavalry. Shouldn't take part in defense and during castle siege when enemy has archers.

    Conclussion: It's up to you, if you have good swordsmen with some defense against arrows and melee you can pick up samurai and if you want to be entirely on offensive - no-dachi are the way to go. There aren't good solutions really. You shouldn't take them if you want to capture castles because towers and archers will kill them quickly and there is little space to charge once you're inside the outer walls.

    Yari:

    Yari ashigaru: Commoners with pointy sticks. They are cheap, numerous and are good against cavalry because they get bonus against horsemen. You'll get quite a number of them because you'll want to keep your army as cheap and effective as possible but they can't match swordsmen, naginata and ninjas. They die fast to missles due to their weak armour and have low morale so keep general or/and monk in the army to keep them fighting.

    Yari samurai: Warriors with spears. uBetter in everything than yari ashigaru and the best anti-cavalry unit but double as costly in upkeep and even more to recruit. Try to keep 1 to 2 ratio when comparing them to yari and use them as best troops who will be victorious where ashigaru alone won't stand a chance.

    Conclussion: Use yari ashigaru as main body of the army and fill the holes, if you find them, with yari samurai or just put yari samurai where you expect fighting to be the fireces. Yari samurai's special ability and superior armour combined with better melee defence/attack stats make them also better suited as charge troops if you don't have any katana or do-dachi yet.

    Special troops:

    Fire bomb throwers: A few men with deadly packages in their hand. They can blow up structures or people and fast. Excellent when you defend against large numbers of foes on bridge or in tiny passes or during sieges if you have to destroy some buildings or defenders in particular place. Small in number and vulnerable to missiles.

    Conclussion: They can be usefull sometimes and sometimes they aren't. It all depends on the situation.

    Naginata samurai: Walking armours, literally. Somewhere in-between compared to katana and yari samurai. They'll have hard times trying to withstand charge from katana samurai and even from from no-dachi and aren't nearly as good as yari samurai when it comes to taking down cavalry but their superior armour and balanced skills are make them good against archers (because can take more arrows due to their armour) and should suffice against cavalry and ashigaru troops. Try not to engage dedicated sword units tough.

    Naginata warrior monks: Same as in the other cases - don't let them to stand under enemy missles due to their weak armour and let them to fight either against cavalry or any melee troops because they have good melee attack/defence, bonus fighting cavalry and when charging.

    Conclussion: Monks are good in hand-to-hand combat but suffer from arrows. Naginata samurai on the other hand are more resistant to arrows and fight well enough against non-sword oriented units. It seems good to place naginata samurai before archers because in that way you'll provide shield for your archers and naginata's armour is good enough to withstand many projectiles so they should be first to assail the walls of the enemy city.

    Kisho ninja: They are few and cost much, they can't survive cavalry charge and can't compete with dedicated swordsmen like no-dachi but in return offer many assets. They have pretty good melee attack with very good charge bonus and decent melee defence. They morale is as high as those of warrior monks. They also make use of blind grenades which make enemy infantry suffer because it lowers their stats for a few moments. They can easily climb on walls and are invisible as long as they walk the battlefield.

    Conclussion: Kisho ninja can preform a variety of roles; they can hide behind an enemy army to either kill its general or strike troops in supprise attack after blinding their main line thus leaving enemy troops vulnerable to your forces. They are invisible when they walk and with their special skill can ever run while remaining hidden. They can climb on the walls to supprise defenders and attack them from the rear or try to take main flag and end siege without the need to kill all defenders. Finally they are fine swordsmen and can put a good fight against most units. Avoid missiles because kisho ninja aren't too heavily armoured.
    "I can be beaten a hundred times, and still I will rise again, as strong as before".

    "Cowards and traitors deserve no second thoughts, only their complete annihilation".
  • Face-sploderFace-sploder Senior Member Posts: 536Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    Your section is amazing! I added this into my guide and gave you credit. Please tell me if your not okay with it and I will immediately take it off. Great work!
  • Holy.DeathHoly.Death Senior Member Posts: 453Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    I have no problem with that. Thanks for adding my post to your guide, that way more people will read it and eventually this'll help some in developing their army to their needs.
    "I can be beaten a hundred times, and still I will rise again, as strong as before".

    "Cowards and traitors deserve no second thoughts, only their complete annihilation".
  • BatavusBatavus Senior Member Posts: 457Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    What has always worked for me in all Total War games is: cheap infantry! No matter your losses (unless your army is completely destroyed), you'll have replenished your losses in no time.

    Yari Ashigaru are great units because they'll get the job done even though they're unskilled and have almost no armour. Plus they'll get killed before you can get too attached to them. In other words: the best cannonfodder unit. Get them some armour and decent back up from a few Samurai units and you'll do wonders with these guys.

    Light Cavalry are also great even if you never use during the actual battle. Use them to demoralize enemy units by hitting them in the back and take out archer units that have strayed away from the main pack. But most importantly have them chase routing units so they'll can't regroup and kill the fleeing enemy, racking up cheap kills.

    Bow Ashigaru: great for thinning out enemy units and to duel with enemy archer units. I always have four or five of these units and they'll do murder when besieging enemy forts. They have the same big advantage of the Yari Ashigaru: cheap, easily replaced and trained.

    Bow Samurai: not too crazy about these because of the low number of men in a single unit. I guess they're okay if you have a few to back up the Bow Ashigaru. Haven't played Shogun 2 for that long to really learn to fully appreciate this unit. Ok, they won't run and will stand their ground when attacked by melee units so I'll give them that.

    Yari Samurai: superb, excellent unit. Takes longer to train but not too expensive. Use them as 'firebrigade' units to fill up the holes in your lines or to fend off flanking attacks. I'm reluctant to put them in the first line because I don't like losing them to fire from stupid enemy Bow Ashigaru.

    Unfortunately I haven't played this game for that long to get to know the more advanced units. But as I said, from my experience from STW, RTW, M2TW and ETW, big armies made up of mostly cheap units with a few professional units will get you a big, effective, cost-efficient fighting force. I expect that as with STW, I will be mainly using the Yari Cavalry for most cavalry purposes, matchlock units if I can place them out of range of enemy melee units and Yari Samurai or Warrior Monks as shock troops. And lots and lots of poor bloody Yari Ashigaru...

    To give new players to the TW-series a modern example of cheap, effective and plenty VS. expensive, totally deadly but limited numbers: it took about quite a few Sherman tanks to take out a single Tiger tank but at least the Shermans were easily replaced. Now if you could get the Shogun 2 equivalent of the T-34 tank then you would have cheap and even more effective units to take out the enemy's Tigers and Panther 2's.

    Think strategically. Better and more expensive units will no doubt win you battles but fair and cheap units in great numbers will win you the war.
    No darn samurai ever won a war by dying honourably. He won it by letting the other poor samurai die honoroubly.

    Napoleon Total War: France Vs. Oldenburg NEW
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=talR3UZGt8M

    Shogun 2 Total War: Chaos At Sea
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRPkLPJbAr8
  • Oda NobunagaOda Nobunaga Senior Member Posts: 140Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    Uh I had a 36 win streak making 45th in the world with a 5-1 win loss rate, using only Katana Samurai and Yari Cavalry... (check on steam for proof). Occasionally used a firerocket or Katana hero but no missile troops, no Yari inf at all.

    This is a good guide, and I'd reccomend reading it, but dont take it as the bible folks, do what works for you.
    Join the Sakura Clan today, an active friendly bunch of Daimyos from a variety of locations and ages come together to rule this land. Its a laugh too ;)
    http://s4.zetaboards.com/Sakura_Clan_HQ/index/
  • BatavusBatavus Senior Member Posts: 457Registered Users
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, I think anyone could win with the right tactics using their own preferred army configuration as long as they can neutralize the enemy archers.
    I like to use a more or less historically correct army set up, which means using lots of Ashigaru troops (Yari and bow).
    Plus I like battlefields littered with the correct mix of enemy and friendly casualties.
    No darn samurai ever won a war by dying honourably. He won it by letting the other poor samurai die honoroubly.

    Napoleon Total War: France Vs. Oldenburg NEW
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=talR3UZGt8M

    Shogun 2 Total War: Chaos At Sea
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRPkLPJbAr8
  • ElmarkOFearElmarkOFear Senior Member Kentucky, USAPosts: 554Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    A note on the Kisho Ninja units: I use them to great effect while taking castles. I sneak them up on the opposite side of the castle from where my main attack is. Once the enemy moves to confront my men taking the walls, I move the kisho ninja in to both take the castle VP and help flank the engaged enemy units. It works extremely well when you have equal number of units compared to the enemy, or when you outnumber him. It can still work when the enemy has more units than you, but you have to watch your timing and wait a bit until the enemy has engaged most of his units.
    Politicians, like diapers, should be changed regularly: Both for the same reason. :D
  • KillerMonkeyBobKillerMonkeyBob Senior Member Posts: 609Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    6 yari, 6 bow ashigaru are a good bases for any army seeing as the AI usually mimmicks the same set up. Just as you progress add some samurai or cav units to pack the winning punch. Very long guide to something that really doesn't need much explaining. A samurai army is gonna cost alot and rarely does the AI use full samurai stacks, so have ashigaru as your numbers with a sam/cav wing for that winning punch.
  • ranknfileranknfile Senior Member Posts: 7,007Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    Sorry but despite the cool samurai units avaiable, they belong to an earlier era (perhaps one or more DLC's will allow me to use Bow Samurai Cav or Naginata samurai infantry). My samurai in the Sengoku period are limited to two types, yari samurai and yari cavalry. I also limit the number of samurai units to the number of provinces plus one (so I can have 2 samurai units for my first province). All the other troops are ashigaru spear, bow and teppo units. "Boring" to some, but "realistic" to me. That said, I like a mix of 8 to 10 spear ashigaru. 5 or 6 bow/teppo, 2 or 3 samurai tops (plus my general's horo unit of course).
    "Whoever desires is always poor" - Claudian
  • spicykoreanspicykorean Senior Member Posts: 1,632Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    "Realistic" is such a subjective term in this game.
  • qed_deqqed_deq Senior Member Posts: 191Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    The more you play this game and you advance on higher difficulties, the more you'll use ashigaru armies with only 3-4 samurai units added to the ashigaru stack to pack up a shock punch when needed. And this is because on higher difficulty cost is everything.
    Visit my YouTube channel for my most recent multiplayer battle replays and let's play campaigns


    The expert in battle seeks his victory from strategic advantage and does not demand it from his men
  • OGGLeepOGGLeep Member Posts: 44Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    6 yari, 6 bow ashigaru are a good bases for any army seeing as the AI usually mimmicks the same set up. Just as you progress add some samurai or cav units to pack the winning punch. Very long guide to something that really doesn't need much explaining. A samurai army is gonna cost alot and rarely does the AI use full samurai stacks, so have ashigaru as your numbers with a sam/cav wing for that winning punch.

    Early that may be true but mid/late game I routinely run up against heavy T2 and up armies. If you use 12 to 15 ashigaru in a stack, then ya you don't need much of a guide. But trying to come up with cost vs effect armies that are low on Ashigaru then every thread is useful.
  • BerserkBerserk Senior Member Posts: 346Registered Users
    edited August 2011
    "Realistic" is such a subjective term in this game.

    How is realistic ever a subjective term? its either realistic or its not
Sign In or Register to comment.