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Attacking Rome: timing and consequences

strad23strad23 Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 20
edited January 2015 in Rome: Total War
Dear friends,
I received my first message saying that it would be a good time to attack Rome...so questions:
( I'm Valery family own 30 cities and my economic and military situation is pretty good)
1) How much importance should I give to these messages? Will they be repeated if I ignore them? I would like to wait a little more, waiting too much could be e mistake? Should I wait to own more cities?
2) Generally speaking how can I evaluate the "right time" for attempting an attack to Rome? In Tarentum and Croton I've got 2-3 strong armies...
3) Attacking Rome will mean to enter in war with ALL roman families? In my case Giuli and Corneli? Will they attack me anywhere in "Italy" if I become enemy of SPQR? I thing I could conquer Rome even now, but I couldn't afford a total war against Giuli and Corneli right now...
4) According to your experience, the SPQR armies are strong? Greek, Pontus and Egypt armies were quite easy to beat until now. Should I send strong units (or send a general with many "stars" in command) from even far cities? (Not all my cities have smith and forge, and the units with 1-2 degrees of experience are those who fought a lot, so far away from "Italy", the armies in Tarentum and Croton actually never fought....)
Thanks for every possible advice on this subject...
Post edited by strad23 on

Comments

  • caninelegioncaninelegion Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 309
    edited January 2015
    The other factions can be tough and they are right next to you. I find that the message happens at the most inconvenient time :). I'd at least wait until you had armies near them since you are likely fighting some far off power at the moment and perhaps wait until that one is defeated. I am not sure if the message can go away but I think not as it has never happened to me. I'm not sure what happens if you start the civil war before getting that message by attacking another Roman faction as I've not yet done that but I assume it means a lot of pro-other Roman rebellions as the plebeians do not like you. If you wait too long, the Senate will simply demand that you kill your faction leader. If you do, repeat with the new one. If you refuse, the civil war starts.
  • CheChe Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 804
    edited January 2015
    It sounds like you haven't been using spies to investigate your rivals. How about you send some spies to look at their armies, so you know what units to prepare, to counter their armies? (You know, cavalry to counter enemy missile units, long range missile units to crush enemy infantry - especially lightly armoured infantry, and enough infantry to defeat all infantry that are not stopped by your missile units, etc.)

    I also suggest that you look at the campaign map, and think about where the enemy armies would go if a civil war starts. E.g. could they attack you at a coastal city? Do you have places that they MUST pass through to reach you (or along the fastest route), where you could defend well (e.g. woodland for ambushes, hills for a strong defensive position)? You can then plan an effective strategy - e.g. maybe you can ensure you have a powerful navie(s) to defend against sea-crossings, or maybe you prefer to save money and defend coastal settlements with strong armies? You could keep generals with small armies (low cost) in areas where you can gather mercenaries in a hurry, IF the enemy approaches.

    One more thing, I highly recommend that you use the appropriate buildings to give every unit strong armour (and if you have them or can build them, buildings to give weapon and experience upgrades to your units). In the short-term, this costs more, but in the long term, it saves money: once a unit is upgraded, they cost the same maintenance as normal units, but they are stronger for the same cost, so you can maintain a smaller (cheaper) army of the same strength. :D Also, units gain experience based on how many enemies they kill compared to how many soldiers are in the unit that does the killing, so, having less soldiers with the same fighting strength means you gain more experience per unit. :D
    "You can learn more about a man in one hour of play, than in an entire year of conversation" - Plato

    "Just because you don't take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles, 430BC

    "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" - Ernesto "Che" Guevara
  • strad23strad23 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 20
    edited January 2015
    Che wrote: »
    It sounds like you haven't been using spies to investigate your rivals. How about you send some spies to look at their armies, so you know what units to prepare, to counter their armies? (You know, cavalry to counter enemy missile units, long range missile units to crush enemy infantry - especially lightly armoured infantry, and enough infantry to defeat all infantry that are not stopped by your missile units, etc.)

    Yes I use spies all the time, but not in a such complete way you're suggesting, but you're surely right. I use them (until now) to verify army strength in cities (but only as quantity, you're right that also the quality of the army should be verified) , civil order etc...I'll use them better...thanks

    (e.g. woodland for ambushes, hills for a strong defensive position)?

    This is interesting for me: I'm quite good about strategy in battle, but I never used ambushes, how to make ambushes, which advantages can they take you in a battle? Ambushes mean that the enemy doesn't see you at all (or untils he's very close) and you can take advantage of the "surprise effect"? You can even know from your strategic map if a spot is suitable for ambushes? If you clarify this detail about battles I'll appreciate.

    Thanks again
  • CheChe Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 804
    edited January 2015
    strad23 wrote: »
    Yes I use spies all the time, but not in a such complete way you're suggesting, but you're surely right. I use them (until now) to verify army strength in cities (but only as quantity, you're right that also the quality of the army should be verified) , civil order etc...I'll use them better...thanks


    This is interesting for me: I'm quite good about strategy in battle, but I never used ambushes, how to make ambushes, which advantages can they take you in a battle? Ambushes mean that the enemy doesn't see you at all (or untils he's very close) and you can take advantage of the "surprise effect"? You can even know from your strategic map if a spot is suitable for ambushes? If you clarify this detail about battles I'll appreciate.

    Thanks again

    :) To make an ambush, you move your army on the campaign map onto "woodland". The army will only make an ambush if it has not used all of its movement that turn. You can see if the army is ready to ambush if it crouches down on the campaign map.

    I think if your army is in sight of a faction's agent, unit or city on the turn when it crouches down, then that faction will not suffer an ambush from your ambushing army. Also, if a faction's spy moving around spots your ambushing army, then that faction will not suffer an ambush from your ambushing army.

    Otherwise, if an enemy faction moves next to your ambushing army on the campaign map, then you will always (or usually?) ambush them. A battle will be triggered, which you, as the ambusher, can agree to, or retreat from. If you agree to the battle, then you get a special ambush set up, where the enemy is spread out in a column, marching formation, and you, the ambusher, can set up your units around them. :D

    Try it and see! ;)
    "You can learn more about a man in one hour of play, than in an entire year of conversation" - Plato

    "Just because you don't take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles, 430BC

    "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" - Ernesto "Che" Guevara
  • caninelegioncaninelegion Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 309
    edited January 2015
    I've never tried this - not good on forecasting where an enemy will march to - but, aren't there some units that can't ambush (perhaps elephants, etc) that make it impossible for the whole army to hide?
  • CheChe Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 804
    edited January 2015
    I've never tried this - not good on forecasting where an enemy will march to - but, aren't there some units that can't ambush (perhaps elephants, etc) that make it impossible for the whole army to hide?

    You can forecast where an enemy will march if you find their army (e.g. with spies) and send YOUR army on the shortest route to them, and stop at a woodland spot on the way. You can also forecast where an enemy will march if there are a limited number of routes between them and you - e.g. because of only a short length of shared border, mountains with a limited number of mountain passes, and rivers with a limited number of crossings.

    Even without a woodland spot to ambush at, river-crossings are another great defensive position that I forgot to mention earlier. Pike and hoplite units (e.g. Romans can hire mercenary hoplites), long range missile units and artillery are extra useful in defending at river crossings.

    As far as I know, all unit types can ambush in a woodland spot on the campaign map. I mean I don't recall ever having a problem of that type, and the campaign map advisor who tells you about ambushing does not mention unit types. The battle map is a different issue - certain unit types may not be able to hide in trees on the battle map.
    "You can learn more about a man in one hour of play, than in an entire year of conversation" - Plato

    "Just because you don't take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles, 430BC

    "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" - Ernesto "Che" Guevara
  • Khan DEVASTATORKhan DEVASTATOR Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 917
    edited January 2015
    Che wrote: »
    ...............Even without a woodland spot to ambush at, river-crossings are another great defensive position that I forgot to mention earlier. Pike and hoplite units (e.g. Romans can hire mercenary hoplites), long range missile units and artillery are extra useful in defending at river crossings.

    Bridge defenses are loads of fun. I regularly park on bridges daring enemies to attack. I use a handful of mercenary hoplites stacked on top of each other at my end of the bridge and war dogs. Lots and lots of war dogs. I release them so they attack just when the enemy touches my spears. Its virtually a lock to have a rout and 100% enemy kill rates. Fun to watch too. I usually try to create at least two bridge defense armies and march them around to key areas.
  • strad23strad23 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 20
    edited January 2015
    war dogs. Lots and lots of war dogs. I release them so they attack just when the enemy touches my spears. .

    I never used dogs and pigs...are they useful? Can be a dog ( or pig) unit more useful than actual soldiers? Or will they be useful only in certain situation as the one you've mentioned? (Bridges)
  • Khan DEVASTATORKhan DEVASTATOR Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 917
    edited January 2015
    strad23 wrote: »
    I never used dogs and pigs...are they useful? Can be a dog ( or pig) unit more useful than actual soldiers? Or will they be useful only in certain situation as the one you've mentioned? (Bridges)

    I never use pigs but wardogs can be the most effective unit in the entire game in the right situations. The game literature says they are ideal for running down fleeing enemies. I always found them useless for this because the animation they use to "attack" actually has them stop running then jump at the enemy. When they stop before jumping a fleeing enemy will actually run just out of range of the wardog's "attack jump". Go figure.

    On the other hand they are absolutely spectacular in two situations. My "bridge defense" unit usually consists of at least 3 hoplite units and as many wardogs as I can recruit - often the rest of the army but a minimum of 8 units. They will rout enemy units coming over the bridge almost immediately then start a chain reaction rout which ends in a 100% enemy kill rate. Anyone who does make it past the dogs gets chewed up by the phalanx waiting for them at the end of the bridge. I regularly wipe out enemy armies of 1200+ with this tactic.

    The other excellent use for them is attacking small and medium sized cities - ones without complex streets. Barbarian settlements instead of Greek ones for example. Complex streets cause them to lose their way and just run around in circles. Again, I've wiped out settlements like this with huge garrisons by using an entire wardog army with only a unit or two of infantry (someone has to push the ram). They aren't as good against a deployed phalanx but great against other units especially chariots when they are stuck in their town.
  • caninelegioncaninelegion Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 309
    edited January 2015
    Pigs can frighten elephants and lower morale of troops but the timing of their lighting seems off (they tend to route close to elephants and prior to lighting) so I haven't been successful getting them to do what they are designed for. When the AI lights them, I generally just run a way and let them bother their own troops - they burn out pretty quick. Cool dog trick with the bridges - I haven't found them to be more then a nuisance to the enemy but usually equipped each Roman army with one (they're just fun to watch) unit of them anyway but haven't even thought of using them as described. Be sure not to let the AI build - they like to make tons of dogs and burning pigs.
  • Dooron101Dooron101 Registered Users Posts: 2
    To attack Rome , you need the support of the plebeians- at least eight points. When you achieve this, the message pops up. If you try to attack Rome beforehand, the game will not let you. If the meter goes down, you will have to wait for it to go back to eight before attacking. Also, regarding attacking Rome itself, the best tactic is to build up a large force in your Italian city/cities (there’s no rush) and then attack SPQR. You should break down the iron door with onagers, ( battering ram takes ages, and if you try and build one one of the armies will attack you outside the city and probably deal a massive blow to your force)then rush into the city and capture the main square A.S.A.P, ignoring wether or not you are losing. Then once you have captured it( the enemy army could be closing in on all 4 sides while your singular unit of peasants holds the square when the timer ends, you still win) the faction will die, having lost its only city, and the remaining SPQR army will disapppear, thus eliminating the enemy forces with the least loss of life
  • Dooron101Dooron101 Registered Users Posts: 2
    strad23 said:

    Dear friends,


    ( I'm Valery family own 30 cities and my economic and military situation is pretty good)
    3) Attacking Rome will mean to enter in war with ALL roman families? In my case Giuli and Corneli? Will they attack me anywhere

    I am confused- I have played total war for some time and was under the impression that the three starting factions were julius, Brutus and scipio- plz explain to me. And, to answer your question, if you attack Rome, you will be “outlawed” and no longer considered roman. From then on the two remaining roman factions will gang up on you. When I did i this, I had a good position - I was richest faction, well over a hundred thousand coins, but I soon spent it on large armies. When it was all but spent, I attacked. I had some northern Balkan barbarian territories, this made it easy to sweep through the northern faction in a pincer movement and take his capital in about 5-10 turns. I am still way richer than the other factions, and I control all the wonders of the world. I have not yet defeated Egypt but I have large armies on the way. My secret was to spend all money on trade- every city should be building, at all times! The remainder spent on the army, I find you only need a small one in the beginning.send diplomats to collect signatures from everyone- barbarians, Greeks, Carthaginians- until you are required to wage war.
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