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Patch 3 changes

SKill3ssSKill3ss MemberPosts: 39Registered Users
edited April 2015 in Multiplayer
What changes would you like to see in the next patch?

For me Attila is in pretty good shape now bar a few things:


Tiny maps, tiny map pool - add some more maps to the QB pool. Maps are tiny, no use for anything other than 1v1.

Cavalry charge speed specific to class. Heavy cav should not have the same charge speed as light. This would give light cav a role - baiting charges, drawing cav away etc. Easy fix.

Parthian shot for some horse skirmishers, focus on Sassanid roster. Useless without it. Not every unit needs it but some certainly do.

200 range for Sassanid archers, price decrease for royal archers. Slinger range increase to 150. I'd also like to see archers somewhere between r2 and current state in terms of damage.
Post edited by SKill3ss on
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Comments

  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Maps aren't a problem because mod tools are coming soon, we can make our own. Hopefully CA add the best ones to the game or at least have it so that if 2 players meet on quick battle and have the same custom map installed then there's a chance of that being selected.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • SKill3ssSKill3ss Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    That's good, hopefully sooner rather than later
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    IIRC it should be this month
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    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • PERESTRELKAPERESTRELKA Member Posts: 38Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    1. Slavonic tribes DLC (Antes, Sclavins, Venedi)
    2. Parthian shot for horse skirmishers
    3. Make units with onehanded ex much cheaper or stronger against some of the infantry units.
    4. Give to Danes some unique units
    5. Make elephants cheaper then it now
    6. Increase shoot speed of the horse archers
    7. Do not make massive changes in balace like in Rome 2.
    8. Immortals have unfair bad melee stats, much worse then Germanic spear masters. Only armour is great, but all other stats are pretty low for high prise.
    9. Give the parthian shot to the horse archers of Sasanid empire. They are successors of the Parthia.
  • Pine89Pine89 Senior Member Posts: 580Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    SKill3ss wrote: »
    Tiny maps, tiny map pool - add some more maps to the QB pool. Maps are tiny, no use for anything other than 1v1.

    Cavalry charge speed specific to class. Heavy cav should not have the same charge speed as light. This would give light cav a role - baiting charges, drawing cav away etc. Easy fix.

    Parthian shot for some horse skirmishers, focus on Sassanid roster. Useless without it. Not every unit needs it but some certainly do.

    200 range for Sassanid archers, price decrease for royal archers. Slinger range increase to 150. I'd also like to see archers somewhere between r2 and current state in terms of damage.

    those things as well, and I might add something done for the hunnic HA.. more ammo? or more damage? or maybe a shorter reload time.
  • CagataiKhanCagataiKhan Senior Member Posts: 808Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    Maps aren't a problem because mod tools are coming soon, we can make our own. Hopefully CA add the best ones to the game or at least have it so that if 2 players meet on quick battle and have the same custom map installed then there's a chance of that being selected.
    why must people use a mod for larger map?
  • obelixthegreatobelixthegreat Senior Member Posts: 228Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    1. Give all more expensive Archers the 200 Range (Sassanids, WRE, ERE,...);
    2. Decrease reload time of Hunic HA by a bit;
    3. Give all factions some horse skirmishers with parthian shot (mostly the top tier units);
    4. Fix Testudo for roman inf;
    5. More ammo for slingers and 150 Range;
    6. Soft Cap for units in MP (Medieval 2 style);
    7. Adjust Cavalary charge speed to each weight class.
    8. Give one handed axe man 10 bonus vs inf;
    9. Armour upgrade in MP;
    10. Weapon upgrade in MP;
    11. Immortals should be bad ***, now theyre not.
    12. Melee cav that doesn´t fight with spears needs to make more sense and have some use in MP. (It would be nice to hear some suggestions)

    For patch 4 i would like to see some mercenary units in the faction rosters.
  • Sgt. JohnyMcChickenSgt. JohnyMcChicken Senior Member Posts: 405Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    1. Give all more expensive Archers the 200 Range (Sassanids, WRE, ERE,...);
    12. Melee cav that doesn´t fight with spears needs to make more sense and have some use in MP. (It would be nice to hear some suggestions)

    For patch 4 i would like to see some mercenary units in the faction rosters.

    Melee cav with swords or axes is better against infantry, because of higher weapondamage or bonus vs inf, faster animation. If it's useful is a complete different question. Atm you just need some weight against inf and that's it, rest is just a addition.
  • obelixthegreatobelixthegreat Senior Member Posts: 228Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Yeah...the problem is that its not usefull, since even lighter cav destroys inf at this stage of the game. Cav with spears is great against cav and is great against inf, but since the ones without spears don´t do well against other cav there use is somewhat restricted and for sure doesn´t justify their price.
    Atm they would make sense in an all cav army replacing the infantry line, which of course is nonsense.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Parthian shot to all missile cavalry (maybe except camel cav).
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • Sgt. JohnyMcChickenSgt. JohnyMcChicken Senior Member Posts: 405Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Yeah...the problem is that its not usefull, since even lighter cav destroys inf at this stage of the game. Cav with spears is great against cav and is great against inf, but since the ones without spears don´t do well against other cav there use is somewhat restricted and for sure doesn´t justify their price.

    But then it's not a problem of weapons choice, but a overall gamebalance problem. I know people requested strong cav and i was one of them. But Attila is a bit over the top in this regards. It's far to much about cav and that's why you have a boring meta. Basically there is either box or cav spam with aggresive support. It might fit, but factions usefulness is only defined by the cost effectiveness of their cav and possibly their cav support and nothing else. With the ability to get many kills so fast cav is overall way to cheap. This might not be the case for SP were everything works, but for MP cav is all and everything. It's silly that saxons and vikings best unit is a cav unit.
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Yeah...the problem is that its not usefull, since even lighter cav destroys inf at this stage of the game. Cav with spears is great against cav and is great against inf, but since the ones without spears don´t do well against other cav there use is somewhat restricted and for sure doesn´t justify their price.
    Atm they would make sense in an all cav army replacing the infantry line, which of course is nonsense.

    No because supporting cav is very important. There's a reason people don't take all cav on quick battle. Someone tried it vs me and lost because I backed up with inf. If cav was that OP then everyone would take a full stack but its not and its actually at a great place at the moment
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    No because supporting cav is very important. There's a reason people don't take all cav on quick battle. Someone tried it vs me and lost because I backed up with inf. If cav was that OP then everyone would take a full stack but its not and its actually at a great place at the moment

    Mele cavalry is way too deadly against infantry on the charge. Mele cav should only kill 10 or so men when charging infantry (even if its only braced). Shock cavalry should be the only one that crush units on the charge.
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Belialxv wrote: »
    Mele cavalry is way too deadly against infantry on the charge. Mele cav should only kill 10 or so men when charging infantry (even if its only braced). Shock cavalry should be the only one that crush units on the charge.


    That's the way i like it, killing anything with my shock cav and my melee cav stay at home sucking ****s.

    Balance is good.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Senior Member Posts: 122Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    No because supporting cav is very important. There's a reason people don't take all cav on quick battle. Someone tried it vs me and lost because I backed up with inf. If cav was that OP then everyone would take a full stack but its not and its actually at a great place at the moment

    Full-cav armies aren't a good idea, but cavalry is definitely too strong in the meta and any faction that isn't cav specialized ends up throwing that advantage away trying cover their cav deficiency because there is no reliable cost-effective way to counter cavalry.

    The Germanic Rosters also just have it too good since they have the best Heavy Cav in a game where Heavy Cav are the best units, very solid infantry options, and then they also get 200 range bows because why not I guess?
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    That's the way i like it, killing anything with my shock cav and my melee cav stay at home sucking ****s.

    Balance is good.

    Ik mate, ik. :)
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Melee cav is fine. German factions are not OP Nordics are probably better IMO, well Jutes anyway. Huns are good, romans still need a bit of work, they have nothing in their roster in any department that makes them stand out so no reason to take them. Sassanids still need a bit of work but are ok.

    Please do not complain about strong cav or we get Rome II boring game. Who cares if melee is good on charge? Shock cav is useful so is melee, they both have a role in the game so there is no need to change it. Only reason to nerf melee cav charge would be if a) it made shock cav useless or b) it made infantry useless and both of them are still very useful so don't change it. Lesson is don't let your infantry get charged.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • winsunshinewinsunshine Senior Member Posts: 820Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Melee cavs charge is too deadly, they did what they not suppose to do. The impact damage should be nerf to ground. Sword and axe cavs need more buff, about 10 bonus damage vs infantry to make them worth bringing.
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Buy spears if u can't handle cav charge.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Senior Member Posts: 122Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    Buy spears if u can't handle cav charge.

    What if the other guy does something radical like send his cavalry where my spears aren't? This is especially fun with the new bracing mechanic that means spears can't even engage cavalry aggressively without getting wrecked by a 10 meter charge.
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Voyager I wrote: »
    What if the other guy does something radical like send his cavalry where my spears aren't? This is especially fun with the new bracing mechanic that means spears can't even engage cavalry aggressively without getting wrecked by a 10 meter charge.

    You mean like where you cav is so your spear can engage his cav and kill it ? Or do you want superman spears that get 2 losses on charge with a cav.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • Voyager IVoyager I Senior Member Posts: 122Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    So how are spears reliable and cost-effective against cavalry when I need to also bring my own unit of cavalry just to get them into the fight to begin with?
  • winsunshinewinsunshine Senior Member Posts: 820Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    Buy spears if u can't handle cav charge.

    I handle cavs charge by buying more cavs, work like charm.
  • Pine89Pine89 Senior Member Posts: 580Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    mass is the critical factor that makes everything more difficult to balance. on shogun 2 you still had anti-infantry cav and anti-cav cav, but both were killed by spears much more efficiently since there was no mass system and spears could take charges much better. what did the killing was just attack and charge bonus.

    with the new system, that also has mass and individual hitpoints, it's much harder to balance melee cav vs shock cav vs spears. at this point it would be probably better just eliminate the difference between shock and melee cav.
  • obelixthegreatobelixthegreat Senior Member Posts: 228Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    No because supporting cav is very important. There's a reason people don't take all cav on quick battle. Someone tried it vs me and lost because I backed up with inf. If cav was that OP then everyone would take a full stack but its not and its actually at a great place at the moment

    If it is at such a great place at the moment why all tournament rules cap cav? First it was 8, now most of them is 6.

    That and at the end of my post i said its nonsense bringing all cav armies, which by the way was about the place of melee cav without spears in the game atm. Weapon choice or game balance thats a fact.
    I like that cav is strong in the game, but all cav types should have their specific role in battle, they don´t. Therefore its not perfectly balanced and for sure not in a great place. It´s not bad and i have fun plying the game.
    memccann wrote: »
    Melee cav is fine. Who cares if melee is good on charge?

    Well, i care, because there is already something called shock cav that is good on the charge.

    Its actually not that hard to understand...Shock cav kills stuff on the charge it should destroy infantry,if its not braced heavy spears, and do a lot of damage to cav, but if it stays unsuported it should loose to cav with anti cav bonus. This one shouldnt do much against infantry but be deadly against shock and anti inf cav, this last one however should be very cost effective against infantry in prolonged melee if it is not spears.
    Or they do this, or they make only one cav roster with units that have different stats.
  • ArhuArhu Senior Member Posts: 192Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    1. Make Shock cav withstand attacks from melee cav
    2. Nerf melee cav charge and damage fighting infantery
    3. Cav, especially shock should be able to disengage without or very few casualties and no moral penalty
    4. fix flanking spaghetti lines!
    5. make it people stop using these stupid spaghetti lines by giving these thin units a moral penalty
    6. nerf the alani noble cav
  • ArhuArhu Senior Member Posts: 192Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    1. Slavonic tribes dlc (antes, sclavins, venedi)

    5. Make elephants cheaper then it now

    noooooo
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Arhu wrote: »
    1. Make Shock cav withstand attacks from melee cav
    2. Nerf melee cav charge and damage fighting infantery
    3. Cav, especially shock should be able to disengage without or very few casualties and no moral penalty
    4. fix flanking spaghetti lines!
    5. make it people stop using these stupid spaghetti lines by giving these thin units a moral penalty
    6. nerf the alani noble cav

    1. they do
    2. why, they do average vs braced inf
    3. yes let's make cataphract unkillable like in good old rome 2 time
    4.wut ?
    5.wut ?
    6.whyt not/ bonus vs cav to 25.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • ArhuArhu Senior Member Posts: 192Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gu58XzMKVk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEIUSytFH4

    spaghetti lines are also better against ranged than loose formation!
  • ArhuArhu Senior Member Posts: 192Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    1. they do
    2. why, they do average vs braced inf
    3. yes let's make cataphract unkillable like in good old rome 2 time
    4.wut ?
    5.wut ?
    6.whyt not/ bonus vs cav to 25.

    Okay maybe making shock more lethal against inf and melee cav less lethal is already good enough, so you have 2 different roles,actually these sassanid cataphracts are already very hard to kill with the best melee cav
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