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  • blademaster3090blademaster3090 Senior Member Posts: 402Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    The way I see it, there are two ways to revive the game's multiplayer:

    1. Focus on unit and faction diversity, improving the longevity of the game because there will inherently be new tactics and army types to experiment with. Of course there will be a set of factions or a tactic that will reign supreme in tournaments, a la barbarian rush in Rome 2 tournaments, but it would make for a more long-lasting multiplayer experience generally.

    2. Improve balance to the extent that even though there are a ton of factions that have 90% the same roster, you could use multiple combinations of these rosters to make different armies, resulting in a different playstyle each time and thus, a more diverse experience and more fun multiplayer.

    Path 1 is the path Rome 2 took, which I'm fine with.

    Path 2 is the path Shogun 2 took more or less, which is fine as well. From what I've read here, there are people who do very well with traditional Shogun 2 armies and beat FOTS armies with them, and there are a lot of different units that have an equally important role in an army.

    Attila is in between these two, not much diversity faction or unit-wise, but the balance isn't great either so players are forced to bring a certain army type. In this case, it is a ton of elite cavalry with the strongest shock infantry to support it and the cheapest skirmishers to either serve as a charge bait or as a long-range threat to force the opponent in to rushing.

    There's also a path 3 which is something more akin to Napoleon and Shogun 2, where the map and the environment plays a much bigger role in deciding the game. Buildings to occupy where your men can shoot from, Dojos to own and bridges/natural chokepoints would play a much, much bigger role in deciding the outcome of a battle than it does now.

    Ideally a combination of the 3 would make for the best game, but realistically, I would like Attila to take a combination of 1 and 3. More unit and faction diversity with larger maps. While dojos would be awesome, I don't think we can expect that from CA any time soon, so having user-created maps with big hills in the middle, or just natural barriers, bridges etc etc. would really help multiplayer in Attila a long way.
    Check out my youtube channel! Mainly Rome 2 Multiplayer tactics, tutorials and replays :)
    www.youtube.com/wolftotalwar
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    I decided to stop waiting for them to release a warhammer TW and just decided to play actual warhammer instead. No regrets. :)
    RedStag
  • TheokolesOfRomeTheokolesOfRome Senior Member The Highlands in me kilt.Posts: 1,485Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    I decided to stop waiting for them to release a warhammer TW and just decided to play actual warhammer instead. No regrets. :)

    They will likely announce it or at least some details later this year. Personally I'm fine if they wan't to take their sweet time in making that particular game.
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/brightbluejacket1
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  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    The way I see it, there are two ways to revive the game's multiplayer:

    1. Focus on unit and faction diversity, improving the longevity of the game because there will inherently be new tactics and army types to experiment with. Of course there will be a set of factions or a tactic that will reign supreme in tournaments, a la barbarian rush in Rome 2 tournaments, but it would make for a more long-lasting multiplayer experience generally.

    2. Improve balance to the extent that even though there are a ton of factions that have 90% the same roster, you could use multiple combinations of these rosters to make different armies, resulting in a different playstyle each time and thus, a more diverse experience and more fun multiplayer.

    Path 1 is the path Rome 2 took, which I'm fine with.

    Path 2 is the path Shogun 2 took more or less, which is fine as well. From what I've read here, there are people who do very well with traditional Shogun 2 armies and beat FOTS armies with them, and there are a lot of different units that have an equally important role in an army.

    Attila is in between these two, not much diversity faction or unit-wise, but the balance isn't great either so players are forced to bring a certain army type. In this case, it is a ton of elite cavalry with the strongest shock infantry to support it and the cheapest skirmishers to either serve as a charge bait or as a long-range threat to force the opponent in to rushing.

    There's also a path 3 which is something more akin to Napoleon and Shogun 2, where the map and the environment plays a much bigger role in deciding the game. Buildings to occupy where your men can shoot from, Dojos to own and bridges/natural chokepoints would play a much, much bigger role in deciding the outcome of a battle than it does now.

    Ideally a combination of the 3 would make for the best game, but realistically, I would like Attila to take a combination of 1 and 3. More unit and faction diversity with larger maps. While dojos would be awesome, I don't think we can expect that from CA any time soon, so having user-created maps with big hills in the middle, or just natural barriers, bridges etc etc. would really help multiplayer in Attila a long way.

    I agree with you. option 1 and 3 all the way. Give me variated factions and bigger maps. (making the terrian important like it was in med2 could be a good idea too).
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    I decided to stop waiting for them to release a warhammer TW and just decided to play actual warhammer instead. No regrets. :)

    Exept warahammer went into oblivion.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    Exept warahammer went into oblivion.

    I like the bit where you paint the toys
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • blademaster3090blademaster3090 Senior Member Posts: 402Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    I like the bit where you paint the toys

    ayyyyyy lmao
    Check out my youtube channel! Mainly Rome 2 Multiplayer tactics, tutorials and replays :)
    www.youtube.com/wolftotalwar
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    Exept warahammer went into oblivion.

    Not in Australia, just attended a 60 person tournament. Several other events this month too. Fun times.
    RedStag
  • IdioManiacIdioManiac Senior Member Posts: 330Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    sigh I just miss my gun games and shogun 2... SH2 was so much fun : / everytime I play it i get a nostalgia rush and feel like tearing up. and then Empire and Napy. <3 god I wish CA just wouldn't **** it up.

    My biggest problem with atilla is the fact you cant disengage. it takes a lot of strategy and micro out of the game. yes it replaces it kinda but makes it a very boring type of game. :/ 4 me at least
    Me
    [-DF-] Skritshell: Hey whats up?
    [-DF-] Chaos: about to start a tourney game
    [-DF-] Skritshell: cool guy any good?
    [-DF-] Chaos: Should win 2-0
    [-DF-] Skritshell: and?
    [-DF-] Chaos: lost 2-0
    [-DF-] Skritshell: ahhh
    [-DF-] Skritshell: well done
    [-DF-] Chaos: ty
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    IdioManiac wrote: »
    sigh I just miss my gun games and shogun 2... SH2 was so much fun : / everytime I play it i get a nostalgia rush and feel like tearing up. and then Empire and Napy. <3 god I wish CA just wouldn't **** it up.

    My biggest problem with atilla is the fact you cant disengage. it takes a lot of strategy and micro out of the game. yes it replaces it kinda but makes it a very boring type of game. :/ 4 me at least

    You can disengage if you have the right support and its better than when pull through was a massive issue.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • blademaster3090blademaster3090 Senior Member Posts: 402Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    You can disengage if you have the right support and its better than when pull through was a massive issue.

    yeah but the pull through stuff was perfect in rome 2 EE, why'd they have to change it? :(
    Check out my youtube channel! Mainly Rome 2 Multiplayer tactics, tutorials and replays :)
    www.youtube.com/wolftotalwar
  • SnipingAchillesSnipingAchilles Senior Member BelgiumPosts: 289Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    @Memccann No, this fatigue system kills competitive play.
    AggonyAchilles on Steam.

    YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/snipingachilles
  • obelixthegreatobelixthegreat Senior Member Posts: 228Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    yeah but the pull through stuff was perfect in rome 2 EE, why'd they have to change it? :(

    Yep. They finally had gotten it right.
    Disengaging is kind of random now, sometimes (few) it works ok, but most of the time the atacked in the rear penalty and the unit losses make it not beeing worth.
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    @Memccann No, this fatigue system kills competitive play.

    I've literally heard no one complain about it apart from you. It doesn't kill competitive play at all.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • obelixthegreatobelixthegreat Senior Member Posts: 228Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    No, this fatigue system kills competitive play.

    Care to explain?
  • jonasneejonasnee Senior Member Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    I've literally heard no one complain about it apart from you. It doesn't kill competitive play at all.
    well then your blind, fatigue system does nothing to add dept to the game or add a fun mechanic you can exploit, all it does is limiting your possibilities.

    there now you heard at least 2 people say it and quite frankly more people believe in it.
    put your actions where your mouth is.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TJpmII-kxuM
    Total war is best when it is kept simple and not overly complex
  • PykeandDykePykeandDyke Member Posts: 56Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    That's because we haven't been that vocal about it. I also think the fatigue system, the way it is implemented at least, is very bad for the game. There are more people who share this opinion.

    Aye, I agree with you TPP!
    TW player since April 2003. Clanless for 12 years,(Finally joined Sith) I have an avid interest in history. STEAM: |Sith|P|Pyke & D y ke (Stupid name censoring)
  • HallorranHallorran Senior Member Posts: 130Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    The fatigue system discourages fast attacking imo the old one was way better. Its also ridiculous how fast units recover making it pointless in a number of ways.

    Its like when they stop they get an intravenous drip full of supercharged redbull.
    AggonySpoon, MizuSpoon
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    How does it discourage fast atracking? Rome II where you had to walk up because you would get tired I understand but not this you can actually run at the start of games.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • PaminaPamina Senior Member Posts: 934Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    The fatigue system it doesn't penalise movement, it penalise brainless rush forward.
    "because you know nothing of multi-player and know nothing of tactics." Hero of Freedom (Too much GoT)

    I'm Panda_Warrior on steam.
  • SnipingAchillesSnipingAchilles Senior Member BelgiumPosts: 289Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Pamina wrote: »
    The fatigue system it doesn't penalise movement, it penalise brainless rush forward.

    It does punish a quick rush. Lol. If something is fast it isn't necessairily brainless.
    AggonyAchilles on Steam.

    YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/snipingachilles
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    It does punish a quick rush. Lol. If something is fast it isn't necessairily brainless.

    It kinda is :rolleyes:

    If your plan is to use your reflex and micro without a proper plan, or a really basic one (rush) than it is kinda brainless as panda said.
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    It does punish a quick rush. Lol. If something is fast it isn't necessairily brainless.

    You can't just run straight forward in the battle you have to put more thought into your approach without it being slow as ****. I'm sorry but 90% of people still rush so I don't get your point at all.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • vaensonvaenson Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    sry not allowed to do this kind of jokes...
  • SnipingAchillesSnipingAchilles Senior Member BelgiumPosts: 289Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    You can't just run straight forward in the battle you have to put more thought into your approach without it being slow as ****. I'm sorry but 90% of people still rush so I don't get your point at all.

    Rushing is still a valid tactic and a style. If you have to walk up, nicely put your troops into position, take your time, and then attack. Your opponent has all the time in the world to find a counter for it. The only viable rushing factions are the celts because they can spawn right in your face.
    you CAN run straight forward into battle, there is actually some thought behind it. And attacking in general is harder then defending. What do you do with Jutes, Huns or Burgundians? You right click and see the enemy die. :P
    AggonyAchilles on Steam.

    YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/snipingachilles
  • DiplomattDiplomatt Senior Member Preston, UKPosts: 1,136Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Apart from the fact Jutes are OP that is the stupidest argument ever 'you just right click and see the enemy die'. First of all you can lose with any of those factions and second you could sat that about any game if you wanted to put it in really simple terms. You're not showing how the fatigue system is bad here at all.
    [WOLF]Diplomatt

    Moderator of www.reddit.com/r/totalwar
  • vaensonvaenson Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    a proper rush can be something beautiful if u can manage to quick route the enemy just by brutal force....anyway the fatigue system works well when u try to flank a pike boxing opponent with lots of skirmishers...
  • jonasneejonasnee Senior Member Posts: 1,737Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    Belialxv wrote: »
    It kinda is :rolleyes:

    If your plan is to use your reflex and micro without a proper plan, or a really basic one (rush) than it is kinda brainless as panda said.
    while rushing a good player will designate certain targets by priority (for example "kill cav and collapse on flanks") and then visualize how they do it while the rush is happening, that means once it comes to it all you have to do is micro cause you already calculated the likely results.
    put your actions where your mouth is.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TJpmII-kxuM
    Total war is best when it is kept simple and not overly complex
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    jonasnee wrote: »
    while rushing a good player will designate certain targets by priority (for example "kill cav and collapse on flanks") and then visualize how they do it while the rush is happening, that means once it comes to it all you have to do is micro cause you already calculated the likely results.

    Just know the game well and micro. :rolleyes:

    No great strategic action there.
    ajz9uoslnqoi.jpg


    HUITZILOPOCHTLI

    god of war

    LIZARDMEN #makelustriagreatagain
    Clan Moulder #masterclan
  • SnipingAchillesSnipingAchilles Senior Member BelgiumPosts: 289Registered Users
    edited April 2015
    memccann wrote: »
    Apart from the fact Jutes are OP that is the stupidest argument ever 'you just right click and see the enemy die'. First of all you can lose with any of those factions and second you could sat that about any game if you wanted to put it in really simple terms. You're not showing how the fatigue system is bad here at all.

    The fatigue system is bad because it punished the attacker in general. Imagine you made up your mind and want to rush, you sit and wait right out of range. If you want to close the distance ASAP to get to his troops, your units will be tired, neary very tired when they engage. It's as simple as that. You want to flank? Sure, but your unit will be very tired after you've flanked another unit...

    There is nothing more to it, they should make the fatigue system like it was in Napoleon and Shogun 2, because then every possible strategy can almost be as easily executed.

    I can understand that we all have different preferations when we talk about the fatigue system, perhaps that is why we are not on the same page.
    AggonyAchilles on Steam.

    YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/snipingachilles
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