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Total War: WARHAMMER Dev Blog – Chaos Warriors, Pre-orders and DLC

Bart_CABart_CA Creative AssemblyHorsham, UKPosts: 349Registered Users, Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff
edited December 2015 in General Discussion
We know people have been asking for comment on the pre-order offer, and sorry it’s taken a few days but we wanted to get together a blog post of our view on it.

We’re not suggesting that everybody will accept our view, but we hope to explain a bit about why we’ve gone about things the way we have.

Our Creative Director, Mike, is going to talk a bit about how resources fit together to create our vision for TW: Warhammer and Brand Director, Rob, will talk about the practicalities of pre-orders, what you can expect to see next and what we’re planning for reviews.



Blog from Mike
The internet debate over TW: Warhammer's DLC and pre-order bonus content has ranged from troubling to horrific. In the studio it's sparked off a huge "wtf do we do about it" debate. A good portion of us have been arguing that whatever we say in response will just fan the flames - that there is no possible response we can actually make that would make it better.

I don't think this is true. I think the nature of our games means our players are intelligent and rational thinkers, and if we share with them the problems that we face, maybe they can help guide us to the solution that brings maximum happiness to the most players. That solution may be exactly what we are planning, but if it's something better we wouldn't hesitate to execute it.

So, the first thing we need to agree on is what we're trying to achieve - I've stated it as the maximum happiness for the most players. Even if you're uber-cynical about our motives and think that we're only interested in money, we should still agree on this because maximum happiness for the most players equals good business for us. In the long run having lots of happy customers enjoying what we make is really the only thing that's important.

As it happens, for us money isn't our main objective, but just like income in a TW campaign, it's important because more money lets us do more stuff. We can invest more in supporting products in the past, make more varied and higher quality games in the present, and invest in technology for the future.

Also, just like a TW campaign, we have to figure out the best strategy for maximising the number of happy players. Our general approach is to make the games we want to play and hope players agree with us, rather than trying to second guess what players might want and doing that. In the case of Warhammer, we want it all. All the races. All the units . All the magic. As authentically as we can possibly make it. With the best possible TW gameplay in there too.
When we were first planning the project, it was immediately obvious that this was a bit of a problem. All that lot was going to cost four times as much to build as the contents of the treasury. We were going to need more resources. Lots more resources.

To get that investment from SEGA (who are always supportive in backing us), we demonstrate that we can release a great game that results in a lot of happy players. But in order to do that with Warhammer content, it has to be split up into reasonable pieces in order to do all of it at a reasonable resource cost.

The only way we can have all the races, all the units, all the magic, all authentic and super high quality is by building it up in multiple products; and for each of them we have to give a plausible prediction of how many people will be happy to buy it, so we can justify the cost of making it.


Now I'm going to massively oversimplify this, but here's the problem…

A full game’s-worth of development resources (time, money, people) can only support a certain amount of content. In this case it works out as four playable races. There’s so much depth, breadth and variety in them, these races really are a huge investment to make above the factions of previous games.

DLCs also support a certain amount of content, less than a main game of course but big enough to add more playable races, or add extra stuff to existing races in the case of smaller DLCs.

Additionally, DLC's that come out in the first 6 months get even more resources (as they will sell a lot more), and a good value pre-order incentive increases sales of the main game, allowing yet more content to be added into the main game.
And we try and over-deliver; because we’re making the game we want to play.
To release DLC within that 6 months after release, we have to start on it well before the game is finished. It’s outside the scope and budget of the main game, but it’s developed in parallel. We hired a whole extra team to do this because in total it's almost as much work as the original game.

If we were to add this extra content to the main game, we’d be operating at a loss, which we wouldn’t do.

So in TW: Warhammer’s case, we had our four main playable races sorted, and we’ve planned for Chaos to have a big role to play later in the trilogy. But we really wanted Chaos Warriors in the main game, even without DLC – to give a big, bad end of game "boss" enemy Race for all players. But we couldn’t do that within the resources for the main game. So we added it as the pre-order incentive that also gets sold on day one – making Chaos Warriors fully playable but also giving us the extra resources to add them as an Ai race for everyone.

So is adding chaos as a pre-order incentive "cut content"? I think the opposite is true. If we didn't add it to the pre-order, it would have been DLC later on and not in the game at release.

We thought we'd done well. Maybe there is a better solution - we're listening to all suggestions for the future. Maybe pre-orders are becoming so toxic they will stop working altogether. You'd hope not though, as it quite simply means those incentives will end up just being paid DLC after launch.

Pre-orders create buzz, improve sales and give the whole studio confidence in what we’re doing. They genuinely let us give you something for nothing, and you can't lose – if you aren’t happy with the final game, you should explore your refund rights. Even if you don’t pre-order, you get Chaos as an Ai opponent.



Blog from Rob
Without wanting to repeat too much of what Mike’s said, here’s a bit more on the nature of the pre-order, what we’re going to do about showing you more of the game, and independent press and community reviews.


Chaos Warriors in the Main Game
Just to make it totally clear, as we saw some confusion, Chaos Warriors do make an appearance in the main game; you don’t need the DLC to see them, just to play as them.


***Light Spoilers Start***
It might not be a big spoiler, especially if you’re a fan of the lore, but suffice to say that the endgame in TW: Warhammer revolves around massive armies of Chaos Warriors, led by Archaon the Everchosen, descending on your race from the Chaos Wastes.

As the machinations of a certain character are revealed, Archaon will arrive – just when you think your immediate worries are under control (in uniting the empire, righting your grudges or otherwise banging some ‘eads together). Your Legendary Lord will then have something epically serious to contend with.

So while not intended to be a fully-fleshed out playable faction, Chaos Warriors are in the main game as an important ‘big opposition’ to give you a hard challenge towards the end of your campaign game. They appear even if you don’t have the Chaos Warriors Race Pack DLC.

The Race Pack enables you start a Grand Campaign as the Chaos Warriors, with a much-expanded roster and extra Legendary Lords to choose from. The Ai will then also take advantage of this expanded roster if you play another race in opposition.
*** Spoilers End***


Also to say, Chaos Warriors aren’t the same as Chaos Daemons; we are treating them as separate, just like the tabletop army books. Later on in the trilogy, you will be exposed to the full horrors of the Realm of Chaos.



About Pre-order Bonuses
We know pre-ordering is a leap of faith, but as Mike says it’s a very helpful indicator of interest in the game.
To help incentivise that and to say thanks for putting your faith in us early, we offer a pre-order bonus.

We try to make those as good as possible. Not just to convince you, but to add value as much as we can.

In the past we’ve done simple single units or factions as pre-order bonuses that were exclusive to certain retailers (see TW: Empire). We didn’t feel that was totally great as, even if you did pre-order, you never got all the available content because it was exclusive (either to a single retailer or it wasn’t available after launch).

So now we have a dedicated production budget to generate DLC in support of the main games, and we assign some of that cost to helping create a really great pre-order bonus. And what’s more we can make it available to buy from day one if you don’t want to pre-order. So the advantage is there if you do put your money down early, but you don’t miss out entirely if you decide not to.

And also you can wait for a sale after launch and still pick it all up, again because it’s not exclusive to a retailer.
We think it’s better to take the opportunity of doing a pre-order bonus and make it the best value we can.

Finally, you can take advantage of Steam Refunds, or any refund programme offered by your favourite retailer (and please check with them what it is before pre-ordering). We absolutely want you to be happy with what you’re buying and we’re committed to offering a deep and satisfying game.



I don’t want to pre-order without seeing more of the game or a review!
That’s entirely and absolutely reasonable. We haven’t even scratched the surface of the game yet and there’s plenty more to come. Soon, through the eyes of the Greenskins, we’ll be showing you campaign gameplay for the first time. Then there’s lots, lots more, including plenty of livestreams, Lets Plays and Youtuber and press coverage.

Also, for TW: Warhammer we are going to be doing the same thing we did with TW: Attila. Reviewers and Youtubers are going to get the final game before release and can make their own Lets Plays and publish their own reviews in advance of the game going on sale.

Before release day, you should be in a position where you can read reviews and see the impressions from your favourite Youtuber, and still have time to decide if you want to pre-order.

If for whatever reason we aren't in a position where we can send code out to review and give people enough time to review it before release, we will move the release date back until we can.

We know that at the end of the day it is on us to prove to you that the game we’re making is incredible. We hope to do that.
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Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
Post edited by Bart_CA on
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Comments

  • Lt.ChrisLt.Chris Member Posts: 60Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Thanks for this message guys, :) It's nice to see you guys shed some light from your position of what you have to deal with too. I think as long as you guys keep as open and transparent as possible with the things you do weather its game development or marketing strategy like the pre-orders then you I think there will be abit less ranting and more understanding
  • totalromefantotalromefan Senior Member Posts: 525Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    you can keep it much shorter to:
    you pay 60 bucks for the advertised factions which are greenskins dwarves empire and vampires
    whether you think thats worth it is up to you
    if they diddnt have any preorder dlc and offered you de chaos faction as payed dlc at a later stage people woudent be upset yet now you are offered a different price for the chaos faction instead of paying extra for the dlc you have the opportunity to get it for the price of pre ordering the main game
  • TempestWolfTempestWolf Senior Member Posts: 641Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Well... you see... the issue with this explanation is... you said that with the allocated resources you could do 4 races for the game... fair.... and to do a fifth race would take more resources and you would operate at a loss, as such you allocate it to a separate team that starts on it parallel to the main game's development and also at a separate cost, again, fair.

    But, here comes the caveat. If that were the case, then the main game would have focused on those 4 races, but the fifth race IS in the main game... so you've worked on it with the main resources, so as to not be at a loss when say, the improbable case of no one buying the dlc would happen. So where is that paralel work? As I see it it's quite perpendicular.
    We kill-slay all surface-things yes yes? Wait... no no... beard-things are not not surface-things... kill beard-things too... and surface things... yes yes.



    I add this image of Ikit Claw to beak up the monotony that threads can fall into (except the screenshot one). I take no credit for it and the author seems to be watermarked on it.
  • FalxmanFalxman Member Posts: 197Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Thank you CA for explanation. To me Chaos is a free LC not cut content.
    I can't wait for this "lots, lots more" informations coming our way.
    There is nothing if there isn't Total War
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 8,328Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Well... you see... the issue with this explanation is... you said that with the allocated resources you could do 4 races for the game... fair.... and to do a fifth race would take more resources and you would operate at a loss, as such you allocate it to a separate team that starts on it parallel to the main game's development and also at a separate cost, again, fair.

    But, here comes the caveat. If that were the case, then the main game would have focused on those 4 races, but the fifth race IS in the main game... so you've worked on it with the main resources, so as to not be at a loss when say, the improbable case of no one buying the dlc would happen. So where is that paralel work? As I see it it's quite perpendicular.
    I think you miss the difference between a unplayable AI race and a race which is playable. The latter requires (especially this time around) more work.
    s.
  • Welsh_DragonWelsh_Dragon Senior Member Great BritainPosts: 2,914Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Thank you CA. Really interesting post and enjoyed getting an insight into exactly how these things work.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.
    CraigK CA wrote:
    I think Welsh Dragon knows too much...
    "You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment."
  • CaractacusMagnusCaractacusMagnus Senior Member Posts: 370Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Applause.

    I'm not exactly the world's poster child for DLC, but thanks for being reasonable and communicating with the fans about this.
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 3,397Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Big thumbs up from me, I pre ordered High King so no loss for me at all, I have great physical items and free DLC with it, you just don't feel it with £100 price, and I'm totally fine with it..

    Only thing I can say is for the love of Sigmar, share more info like this with us!! I mean weekly blog or "Introducing..xxx" video seires, one artwork or screenshot, something to keep this train rolling and survive until 28th of April :D

    I love this game, and that's why I'm criticizing this lack of info, and again thumbs up for this blog :)
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  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Posts: 691Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Thanks for the explanations CA.

    I just want to say that, as soon as the game and dlc(s) worth it (an entire race and hopefully a unique gameplay) and that the price is reasonnable, it is ok for me.

    The only thing I can understand for some guys is that an other race could have been chose. Like kislev or bretonnia. A race "less" important than chaos. But personnaly I dont care.

    Cant wait for the campaign gameplay! So excited! But, please, stop telling SOON XD give us a date or nothing but no soon! :)
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  • Woody01Woody01 Senior Member Posts: 658Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    How I understand what has been explained is the Chaos DLC was not in the original production budget. Which I understand.

    That this DLC adds a lot more Chaos units. What units are already in the base game? How many units are being added not including the lords with the DLC?

    What I would also like to question is if you would be losing money if you included the DLC contents in the base game, how can you afford to give it away for free with pre-orders?

    Do you not see how some people might have a problem with the buy now or pay more later approach? It is wise for consumers to wait for a product to be completed so they can judge quality and suitability for them.

    Why not offer similar incentives as other developers? Some of them offer DLC's that are fluff, digital art books, soundtracks and not DLC with major content. Which makes sense to me since those items would cost you less to give away for free.

    I want to believe you but the cynic in me is telling me to believe something else.

    If the DLC cost so much to produce you would lose money if you included it in the base game why give it away for free? It would earn you more money selling to everyone after release helping insure you cover the cost.

    Chaos has a large presence in the base game. Which I assume means there are some units in the DLC that are already in the base game. Which brings me to the conclusion that this DLC might not need as many units created that were not already.

    I start this part off with you did stick with Rome 2 and released patches for about a year maybe a little longer. You also failed to give indication of any issues the game might have. We did not hear from you about these issues until after the game was released and the sales were already made.

    I want to talk about another issue that demonstrated a lack of integrity. I will leave them out since I do not think I am allowed to discuss them and would just result in my post being deleted.
  • Bart_CABart_CA Creative Assembly Horsham, UKPosts: 349Registered Users, Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff
    edited November 2015
    Woody0 wrote: »
    What I would also like to question is if you would be losing money if you included the DLC contents in the base game, how can you afford to give it away for free with pre-orders?

    Hi Woody0,

    Mike covers this, but in other words if we offer a great pre-order bonus, then more people will buy the main game then would have otherwise, this then covers some of the cost. Offering it afterwards as day one DLC also then sells well, also contributing.
    Forum Terms & Conditions

    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • Welsh_DragonWelsh_Dragon Senior Member Great BritainPosts: 2,914Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Woody0 wrote: »
    How I understand what has been explained is the Chaos DLC was not in the original production budget. Which I understand.

    That this DLC adds a lot more Chaos units. What units are already in the base game? How many units are being added not including the lords with the DLC?

    What I would also like to question is if you would be losing money if you included the DLC contents in the base game, how can you afford to give it away for free with pre-orders?

    Do you not see how some people might have a problem with the buy now or pay more later approach? It is wise for consumers to wait for a product to be completed so they can judge quality and suitability for them.

    Why not offer similar incentives as other developers? Some of them offer DLC's that are fluff, digital art books, soundtracks and not DLC with major content. Which makes sense to me since those items would cost you less to give away for free.

    I want to believe you but the cynic in me is telling me to believe something else.

    If the DLC cost so much to produce you would lose money if you included it in the base game why give it away for free? It would earn you more money selling to everyone after release helping insure you cover the cost.

    Chaos has a large presence in the base game. Which I assume means there are some units in the DLC that are already in the base game. Which brings me to the conclusion that this DLC might not need as many units created that were not already.

    I start this part off with you did stick with Rome 2 and released patches for about a year maybe a little longer. You also failed to give indication of any issues the game might have. We did not hear from you about these issues until after the game was released and the sales were already made.

    I want to talk about another issue that demonstrated a lack of integrity. I will leave them out since I do not think I am allowed to discuss them and would just result in my post being deleted.

    My reading of it.

    There are two Chaos factions in this game.

    Chaos Warriors (Playable with the DLC) who start the game as a horde on the map.

    "Chaos Invasion" (always AI controlled) which serve like the Mongols and Timurids in Medieval 1/2. They sweep down onto the map later in the campaign and cause a lot of trouble, to give you an end game challenge.

    They use many of the same units and art assets, but are separate factions. The increased resources they have been given by SEGA from pre-orders and selling Chaos Warriors DLC allows CA to make both the Chaos Warriors AND the Chaos Invasion. Without Chaos Warriors DLC, there would also be no Chaos Invasion, because they don't have the resources.

    As for how they can make it free to pre-order, it's because the cost of making the Chaos Warriors/Chaos Invasion is being offset by the increased number of pre-orders, which means more money.

    e.g. If in a random group of 100 people, 50 will pre-order the game at launch, but a further 20 will pre-order to get Chaos Warriors "for free" then that's an extra 20 x Price of item. Increased sales mean more money. More money means CA's budget for the game is made bigger, which means they can afford to make more content, in this case Chaos.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.
    CraigK CA wrote:
    I think Welsh Dragon knows too much...
    "You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment."
  • DavidtheDukeDavidtheDuke Senior Member Posts: 2,106Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    CA as much as I feel you robotically reply to things I never was that miffed about this DLC this time. Especially with the steam refunds ssystem, it isn't that big a deal. The TW-Warhammer merging is my dream game however, and I know alot of work and complexity is going on in this title, and I"m willing to pay alot this time. I mean obviously obviously I have limits, but the chaos DLC preorder bonus isn't even a factor in that since steam refunds.

    Good luck CA!

    Also you should do a pre-order closed BETA (just sayinnnnn maaaaaaan)
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  • CwenraedCwenraed Senior Member Posts: 708Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    A great message, even if people do not agree they can still understand why it was done, they can be happy to have a response, there is nothing better than developers who take the time to acknowledge and answer questions from the people who are interested in this game.
    Do not disturb my circles >:)
  • Welsh_DragonWelsh_Dragon Senior Member Great BritainPosts: 2,914Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Cwenraed wrote: »
    A great message, even if people do not agree they can still understand why it was done, they can be happy to have a response, there is nothing better than developers who take the time to acknowledge and answer questions from the people who are interested in this game.

    Good point. I'm also glad that they took the time to write a detailed response explaining it all, instead of rushing out a press release that doesn't really say anything.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.
    CraigK CA wrote:
    I think Welsh Dragon knows too much...
    "You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment."
  • KronuxenKronuxen Senior Member Posts: 615Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Thanks for an official response on this issue. But theres still a big problem.

    The main outcry is not only because a preorder dlc exists, the problem is that Chaos sound't be a dlc, never.
    Chaos is the Main faction in warhammer alongside with the empire, you may say that it wasn't on your initial focus, but you know that isn't true. The main reason all the events of warhammer are happening is because of Chaos, chaos needs to be a main faction not only because people love it but because it IS a main faction in warhammer. On the other hand you made the undead playable... are you kidding me? are really the undead a main faction while chaos isn't? This is what I and most of the people who participated in the outcry wanted you to address.

    Why then do you think this outcry was so much bigger in comparison with the ones of shogun2, rome2 or Attila? Chaos as a dlc is like making carthage a dlc on rome2, like making the romans a dlc on Attila don't you understand?

    Edit: Im still not going to buy warhammer if chaos is release as a dlc, I basically have every main total war title and most dlc's but this one has gone to far (I cancelled the preoder I had when the chaos announcement was released and im not going back).
  • CenariusCenarius Member Posts: 94Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    They think one blog post makes it all good now?

    Instead of vampire count news, we got more DLC apologies.
  • VuorinorriVuorinorri Senior Member Posts: 1,525Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    pretty much what I have trying to say in Rome2...in Attila...and now in Warhammer...games cost more to make. it's not 90's anymore. I don't like to pay factions or similar stuff,but if I want it,I buy it.it's not that big money. only 1 DLC I agree 100% and I'm happy it's DLC,not in main game: Blood&Gore. I started TW as teenage. I don't want to cut teens out just because I'm old enough for blood


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  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKPosts: 5,394Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Kronuxen wrote: »
    Thanks for an official response on this issue. But theres still a big problem.

    The main outcry is not only because a preorder dlc exists, the problem is that Chaos sound't be a dlc, never.
    The fact that they aren't one of the four playable races didn't seem to matter even after the map sneak peak so having them as DLC at some point didn't seem to matter to people.
    Kronuxen wrote: »
    Chaos is the Main faction in warhammer alongside with the empire, you may say that it wasn't on your initial focus, but you know that isn't true. The main reason all the events of warhammer are happening is because of Chaos, chaos needs to be a main faction not only because people love it but because it IS a main faction in warhammer. On the other hand you made the undead playable... are you kidding me? are really the undead a main faction while chaos isn't? This is what I and most of the people who participated in the outcry wanted you to address.
    The trouble is unlike 40K the fantasy warhammer has never had the support in players that the fluff and background should dictate.
    VC on the other hand are loved, just take a look here on the forums be too negative about them and you will be lynched, and they speak to people outside of warhammer.

    And it's the factions people want to be (not beat) that should get first choice for playable. (green skins easy, empire for the more popular humans, VC for VC and dwarfs over elfs due to the map).
    Kronuxen wrote: »
    Why then do you think this outcry was so much bigger in comparison with the ones of shogun2, rome2 or Attila? Chaos as a dlc is like making carthage a dlc on rome2, like making the romans a dlc on Attila don't you understand?
    Because warhammer will likely out sell attila 50:1.

    The shock element is slightly relevant only because you have to ask if they are able to release one of the largest unit rosters before time how much is cut out just to make this DLC?

    Answer appears to be none. Even with the idea of the DLC team working in parallel I feel this was sprung a bit.

    It would have been much better on day one to say "the main team are focusing on these 4 factions but due to scale we've already had to start up the DLC team and first thing they finish will be the pre-order bonus", then when it comes to the big chaos reveal everyone is impressed of the scale of the bonus they knew was happening

    Kronuxen wrote: »
    Edit: Im still not going to buy warhammer if chaos is release as a dlc, I basically have every main total war title and most dlc's but this one has gone to far (I cancelled the preoder I had when the chaos announcement was released and im not going back).
    poor you?
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  • Person012345Person012345 Senior Member Posts: 640Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    If your goal isn't money then why are you price gouging the UK market? The game is $15 more here than in the states (at least that's what people are saying, that it's $60 for the states), which is not the case for most other games (they tend to be a little bit more expensive than the states but it's usually just a case of rounding the number after conversion up to X9.99). Why not price it the same everywhere and just include chaos in the main game for everyone. You get your extra cash and you obviously don't think $75 is too much since that's what you're asking here (or is that just because there are more warhammer fans here hmm?).

    Edit: By the way though, the news that chaos daemons and chaos warriors are separate factions has definitely made me feel a bit better about the faction as a DLC. As long as chaos won't be left out as a playable faction for people who only buy the mainline games then my annoyance will be slightly sated. The above still applies though. You're asking over the odds in the UK and the exclusion of chaos warriors from a game that costs £50 feels like cut content.
  • Woody01Woody01 Senior Member Posts: 658Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Bart CA wrote: »
    Hi Woody0,

    Mike covers this, but in other words if we offer a great pre-order bonus, then more people will buy the main game then would have otherwise, this then covers some of the cost. Offering it afterwards as day one DLC also then sells well, also contributing.

    You do see how your response and answering peoples concerns can be questioned?

    Certain actions taken on your forums, where I have seen issues effectively handled in more open and honest ways.

    Using buy now or pay more later with very little information available on your product. Is seen as a somewhat questionable practice by some in this and other industries. Some even consider it manipulative.

    Failing to release information to consumers about your product. Ex: Rome 2 pre and near post release, some problems with AI, the Pre-alpha Carthage Video that will look better in in the release version(at least that was suggested).

    Just some examples why some may question your response and remain doubtful.

    I enjoy your games. Rome 2 not so much, but that just a matter of taste.

    IMHO if people do not have confidence in CA, it is a result of past behavior. Not from dislike of DLC, there is a dev who is releasing a game in the near future with a Season Pass for $30. People did not leave a bunch of negative comments for a vid, or have forums get dominated discussing it. Which I can only assume is a result of how they behaved in the past and currently.

    I am skeptical of CA/SEGA, but willing to keep an eye on this game and see how you choose to act from here on out.
  • Bart_CABart_CA Creative Assembly Horsham, UKPosts: 349Registered Users, Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff
    edited November 2015
    If your goal isn't money then why are you price gouging the UK market? The game is $15 more here than in the states (at least that's what people are saying, that it's $60 for the states), which is not the case for most other games (they tend to be a little bit more expensive than the states but it's usually just a case of rounding the number after conversion up to X9.99). Why not price it the same everywhere and just include chaos in the main game for everyone. You get your extra cash and you obviously don't think $75 is too much since that's what you're asking here (or is that just because there are more warhammer fans here hmm?).

    Hi Person012345,

    Our goal isn't primarily money, though of course as Mike says that enables us to say in business.

    Retail prices are set by retailers, and often vary by country and local market conditions - if you google it and hit the 'Shopping' tab at the top, you'll see a variety of prices from £28 to £65 in the UK. I have to say I'm not recommending any of those links by the way and you should of course only ever shop with your choice of trusted retailer.
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  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKPosts: 5,394Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Bart CA wrote: »
    Hi Person012345,

    Our goal isn't primarily money, though of course as Mike says that enables us to say in business.

    Retail prices are set by retailers, and often vary by country and local market conditions - if you google it and hit the 'Shopping' tab at the top, you'll see a variety of prices from £28 to £65 in the UK. I have to say I'm not recommending any of those links by the way and you should of course only ever shop with your choice of trusted retailer.

    Doesn't Sega set the steam price?
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  • Person012345Person012345 Senior Member Posts: 640Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Bart CA wrote: »
    Hi Person012345,

    Our goal isn't primarily money, though of course as Mike says that enables us to say in business.

    Retail prices are set by retailers, and often vary by country and local market conditions - if you google it and hit the 'Shopping' tab at the top, you'll see a variety of prices from £28 to £65 in the UK. I have to say I'm not recommending any of those links by the way and you should of course only ever shop with your choice of trusted retailer.

    Well I was referring to the steam price, I assume steam is the main place you make your online sales aren't they? I've never seen this with any other TW game. And I understand if CA aren't the ones who set the steam price themselves, maybe you don't really have a hand in that, in which case you might need a word with whoever does because it looks bad when it's set the way it is, with a jump in price where the IP is relatively more popular.

    I also made an edit to my first post, just so you know that I'm not 100% being cynical and grumpy. This price thing really just irritates me. I had planned on buying copies for my friends, but it's just too expensive for that now.
  • Bart_CABart_CA Creative Assembly Horsham, UKPosts: 349Registered Users, Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff
    edited November 2015
    Woody0 wrote: »
    Using buy now or pay more later with very little information available on your product. Is seen as a somewhat questionable practice by some in this and other industries.

    Yes, we do understand that, as mentioned in the blog, which is why we will ensure that reviews and youtuber impressions and a lot more information are all available before release day.

    As you of course know, you don't have to pre-order now and can wait until you see enough of the game to make a judgement.

    If we get to a week before release and you still have questions about the content of the game, feel free to PM me or any member of the community team and we will get an answer to you.
    Forum Terms & Conditions

    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 3,397Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    I still don't get why people are upset about the Steam price lol... Witcher 3 is still £50 and some other recent games, just buy from different retailer. I did get my Attila copy for £12 silly people ;D

    I think it's Valve setting price of course with SEGA nod of approval.
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  • Person012345Person012345 Senior Member Posts: 640Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    I still don't get why people are upset about the Steam price lol... Witcher 3 is still £50 and some other recent games, just buy from different retailer. I did get my Attila copy for £12 silly people ;D

    I think it's Valve setting price of course with SEGA nod of approval.
    Well if you read my post you'll see that I, personally, am irritated by the apparent price gouging. It's significantly less expensive in the US and this simply isn't the case for most games, they don't usually vary by this much. WH is also relatively more popular in the UK as far as I am aware, so do the math as to why that might be. The fact is, the game (absent a good, specific, explanation for the price bump in the UK) could be priced significantly lower (as it is in the US, again so I'm told) but it isn't, and really the only explanation I have right now is that it's because that's what they can get away with. Or alternatively it could be priced more highly in the US and CW could be included.
  • HoneyBunHoneyBun Senior Member Posts: 3,523Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    I appreciate the candour.

    Can I just ask that we don't end up with Attila style endless stack spam? Linking the mechanic to killing Attila would have been fine if he had one life, but the need to constantly kill him was just depressing and silly. As I understand it the Legendary Lords are immortal, so a finite number of stacks makes more sense.

    The new forum makes my eyes bleed

  • Tim_WardTim_Ward Senior Member Posts: 347Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    This industry is has become so cynical and regards now it's customers with such open contempt that at this point any DLC content ready on release date is probably going to considered cut content irregardless of what the developer claims the reality is. Nothing developers or publishers say can be trusted.

    And announcing Pre-Order DLC *six months* in advance of the games release date is just rubbing salt in the wound.
    Maybe pre-orders are becoming so toxic they will stop working altogether.

    Bingo!
    You'd hope not though, as it quite simply means those incentives will end up just being paid DLC after launch.

    Good riddance. The industry's current obsession with pre-orders has gotten far, far beyond a joke and anything that kills the practice is to be regarded as good thing.

    I have no problem with Chaos as DLC, everyone understands the Warhammer universe is too big to fit into one release. Content created and ready before the game even ships but not included in the main release in order to essentially coerce people into putting down money for the game before anyone's even had a chance to try it when you're a company with a long history of releasing games that were *cleared* not finished and not in a playable state: I'm sorry but that's just gross and you need very badly to stop doing it. You and the rest of the industry. Just stop it, all of you.
  • Woody01Woody01 Senior Member Posts: 658Registered Users
    edited November 2015
    Bart CA wrote: »
    Yes, we do understand that, as mentioned in the blog, which is why we will ensure that reviews and youtuber impressions and a lot more information are all available before release day.

    As you of course know, you don't have to pre-order now and can wait until you see enough of the game to make a judgement.

    If we get to a week before release and you still have questions about the content of the game, feel free to PM me or any member of the community team and we will get an answer to you.

    I forgot to thank you for your timely responses in my last post.

    I will be waiting and hope my confidence in CA returns in the future.
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