How will they balance chaos dragons

rgfezref

So chaos dragons are a confirmed mount for lords, and lore wise these things are absolute murder machines on the battlefield. The only thing that seems to have any chance of stopping one is a very powerful individual or another dragon. Now my question is how are they going to give that aspect to the chaos dragon without being completely overpowered. It also said in the roster description that an alliance with a chaos dragon is always temporary, I seriously hope that the chaos dragon isnt something that can be active for only a few turns before have to "recharge" or something like that.
What are your thoughts on this? I mean it would be ridiculous if they can get shot down by a lone archer unit or cut to bits by a single group of slayers.

SiWI#8629

I doubt that the "temporarily alliances" sentence alludes to anything gameplay related.

As for balance:
the lores say many things about the power of mounts/units/heroes (especially in the armybook of that race), which already don't hold up in the TT.

I'm pretty confident that heavy arty, strong characters with own mounts, magic or a combination of all of that will bring down those chaos dragons.

Also I don't think we will see them too often, since they most certainly at the end of the skill tree.

AjiTae

I think they're mostly basing it on the TT so i expect them to be about as strong as other dragons. And therefore they should be possible to take down with magic, ranged units and other monsters or heroes/lords, much like in the TT.
So powerful yes but not OP. I'm more worried about the balancing of Kholek for instance, especially in early game.

rgfezref

AjiTae said:

I think they're mostly basing it on the TT so i expect them to be about as strong as other dragons. And therefore they should be possible to take down with magic, ranged units and other monsters or heroes/lords, much like in the TT.
So powerful yes but not OP. I'm more worried about the balancing of Kholek for instance, especially in early game.

Thats true, speaking of kholek does anyone have any idea what his legendary items might be? I mean this guy has been alive for centuries and from what I read he has had his equipment for a very long time.

Indypride#7329

AjiTae said:

I think they're mostly basing it on the TT so i expect them to be about as strong as other dragons. And therefore they should be possible to take down with magic, ranged units and other monsters or heroes/lords, much like in the TT.
So powerful yes but not OP. I'm more worried about the balancing of Kholek for instance, especially in early game.

I'm really pumped to see what Kholek Suneater can do. He looks so cool

HeroofRome1

Cannons.

At least thats how its works in the table top game.

SiWI#8629

chaos lord said:

AjiTae said:

I think they're mostly basing it on the TT so i expect them to be about as strong as other dragons. And therefore they should be possible to take down with magic, ranged units and other monsters or heroes/lords, much like in the TT.
So powerful yes but not OP. I'm more worried about the balancing of Kholek for instance, especially in early game.

Thats true, speaking of kholek does anyone have any idea what his legendary items might be? I mean this guy has been alive for centuries and from what I read he has had his equipment for a very long time.

I think it is fair to say that CA ignores the aspect of what characters logical should have and simply base they decision on game design. Thorgrim for example also rules for centuries and yet has first to find his items.

Kholek item is probably:
Starcrusher, the powerful hammer he uses.

it is his only Item in the TT.
So I assume they will also let you unlock "legendary" skills like "Lord of the Storm".

Froger

Hero of Rome1 said:

Cannons.

Yep... the gods gave us artillery and wether or not it may be lorewise correct, a dozen volleys of for example the good old organgun will make short work of pretty much any creature, otherwise this would make this stuff just absolutely unbalanced. And by the way, a chaos dragon might also cost a lot (of whatever chaos will use as currency as I'm lacking a better word for it).

Setrus#7519

To be fair, in the lore presenting anything but goblins and snotlings (and even then, there's exceptions) they're really powerful...
A wyvern with a strong orc lord, a bunch of cannons or even a terrorgheist ought to keep it pinned or even kill it.

Zalgo

chaos lord said:

So chaos dragons are a confirmed mount for lords, and lore wise these things are absolute murder machines on the battlefield. The only thing that seems to have any chance of stopping one is a very powerful individual or another dragon. Now my question is how are they going to give that aspect to the chaos dragon without being completely overpowered. It also said in the roster description that an alliance with a chaos dragon is always temporary, I seriously hope that the chaos dragon isnt something that can be active for only a few turns before have to "recharge" or something like that.
What are your thoughts on this? I mean it would be ridiculous if they can get shot down by a lone archer unit or cut to bits by a single group of slayers.

I'm hoping for the imperial dragon ^-^. Chaos lord on a chaos dragon vs Karl on the imperial dragon. O.O

SiWI#8629

Well the Dragon isn't in the Empire roster, so for now it is a "no".

bennymcl

Froger said:

Hero of Rome1 said:

Cannons.

Yep... the gods gave us artillery and wether or not it may be lorewise correct, a dozen volleys of for example the good old organgun will make short work of pretty much any creature, otherwise this would make this stuff just absolutely unbalanced. And by the way, a chaos dragon might also cost a lot (of whatever chaos will use as currency as I'm lacking a better word for it).

I dunno, I believe more than 12 shots from an organ gun will be required to take down a dragon in TW Warhammer. You're saying one battery shot of 12 guns will take out the most powerful creatures/LL? Doubtful lol

epic_159733007811cHJwei4

My guess is legendary flying mounts (Deathclaw) will be a strong answer to any other flying threat.

Karnil_Vark_Khaitan

Well a star dragon is better ^^

octavian1127

WoC has Kholek Suneater, and you're worried about the balance of dragons.....

Zalgo

SiWi said:

Well the Dragon isn't in the Empire roster, so for now it is a "no".

Yes I know, I'm hoping it's dlc or flc. Maybe a special "mounts" pack?

octavian1127

Tbh, Imperial Dragon is at best a very late addition to the game. Karl already has a unique mount. I am very curious as to the quest chain involved in getting a Zombie Dragon though, since lore-wise it involves a journey to the dragon graveyard.

Aztek171#2277

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

epic_159733007811cHJwei4

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Zalgo

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

Sevenpifer

HoneyBun said:

Zalgo said:

Dragons are better.

Quoted for truth

Let me third that motion.

Besides, variety is the spice of life. The Imperial Dragon should be FLC/DLC.

capybarasiesta89#4722

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Angmir

englisharcher89 said:

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Arent Greater Deamons of Khorne ultimate Mele Fighters ??

octavian1127

Angmir said:

englisharcher89 said:

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Arent Greater Deamons of Khorne ultimate Mele Fighters ??

The oldest dragons are equal in power to a Greater Daemon. Zombie and Chaos Dragons are potentially even more powerful depending on the 'source' dragon.

Angmir

octavian1127 said:

Angmir said:

englisharcher89 said:

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Arent Greater Deamons of Khorne ultimate Mele Fighters ??

The oldest dragons are equal in power to a Greater Daemon. Zombie and Chaos Dragons are potentially even more powerful depending on the 'source' dragon.

Zombie Dragons arent more powerfull than their source.
They are falling apart after all.
Beeing Mindless doesnt help eighter
But yeah they have their advantages too.

epic_159733007811cHJwei4

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

Heresy. Deathclaw will feast on your entrails!

Dragons are a dime-a-dozen.

Krilral

Man I've been playing too much Fallout 4 recently. I get this gleeful smile on every time I hear about Karl Franz being mounted on a Deathclaw

Also dragons will likely be very expensive in cost/upkeep. They have to eat after all(or so I assume), and a dragon is one biiiiiiiig critter. As for undead dragons, they will have a whole bunch of upkeep, because it takes some serious power just to keep them from falling apart.

octavian1127

Angmir said:

octavian1127 said:

Angmir said:

englisharcher89 said:

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Arent Greater Deamons of Khorne ultimate Mele Fighters ??

The oldest dragons are equal in power to a Greater Daemon. Zombie and Chaos Dragons are potentially even more powerful depending on the 'source' dragon.

Zombie Dragons arent more powerfull than their source.
They are falling apart after all.
Beeing Mindless doesnt help eighter
But yeah they have their advantages too.

In Warhammer they supposedly are. It's not like DnD style undead dragons. They are also re-animated using 'ambient' magic from the Plain of Bones, so shouldn't require magical input from their master but rather more of a force of will to keep them in check.

Angmir

octavian1127 said:

Angmir said:

octavian1127 said:

Angmir said:

englisharcher89 said:

Zalgo said:

FrontlinerDelta said:

Aztek said:

Yeah in my opinion Karl really doesn't need the Imperial dragon. Deathclaw is awesome and unique.

Yuup. Deathclaw is the biggest reason I'm picking Karl Franz instead of Gelt or Azhag for my first campaign.

Griffons are awesome.

Dragons are better.

And undead dragons even better hehe

Arent Greater Deamons of Khorne ultimate Mele Fighters ??

The oldest dragons are equal in power to a Greater Daemon. Zombie and Chaos Dragons are potentially even more powerful depending on the 'source' dragon.

Zombie Dragons arent more powerfull than their source.
They are falling apart after all.
Beeing Mindless doesnt help eighter
But yeah they have their advantages too.

In Warhammer they supposedly are. It's not like DnD style undead dragons. They are also re-animated using 'ambient' magic from the Plain of Bones, so shouldn't require magical input from their master but rather more of a force of will to keep them in check.

I was talking about Warhammer specificaly

It is stated in the Army Books - that they are basicly a midless constructs, loosing aall of their former glory and prowess. They are slugish (less I) dont have fighting skills (half of WS), and arent as tough as when they were alive (6W od Dragon 5W on Zombie Dragon 5+ Armour Save to 3+ Armour Save) But they do are surrounded by swarms of flies and rotting odor - giving -1 to hit for models atacking zombie dragon.

And they are cheaper in points too.

Babalouche

I'm not too worried about dragons. There's plenty of mechanics that you can use to keep them in check (artillery, legendary lords, other monsters, etc.) Also I'm pretty sure they will have a very high cost and upkeep to balance them a little bit.

octavian1127

Ah, I'm not very familiar with FB stats. More of a 40k guy for TT. Lore always seemed to have them as stronger than their equivalent.