The Trailer - Greater (ornithological) Daemon of Tzeentch

Sviavledi

I did not find any thread on this topic, but if there is one excuse this post.

I was trying to sell TWW to a friend and showed the trailer and said: "everything you see will be in the game."
The trailer does promise that everything that is shown will be in the game right? I'd hate to be a proved a liar.
So at the very end of the trailer a Greater Pigeon of Tzeentch is shown. Is there any information (or speculation*) about what that exactly is? Is it a unit or NPC spawn that appears when the influence of Chaos is great enough?

Discuss.

IzzyStradlin

There is, as yet, no information.

GRAY_HAT

current information on chaos daemons: "" -CA;

chance it will be in the first game: 25%;

chance it will be in a game: 95%;

happiness if it turns out to be in the first game: +150%;

rage if it is never seen: +500%;

chance I'm make these percents up:110%;



We know nothing and the minor speculation at the time of the first video was on a level of wildness rarely see without the accompanying tin foil hat(which are mostly made of aluminum).
Some think it was going to be a chaos god per game.
others that it was an effect for casters to worry about.
and some just thought it was chosen because it looks wired.

octavian1127

It's possible that when a region does this chaos rebels thing we know almost nothing about, that the rebels are Tzeentch affiliated?

bennymcl

Or.. maybe you shouldn't tell your friend stuff you don't know ? Lol... That couldnbe a good start to not being a liar.

As for the Greater Daemon, I imagine they will be in the game, yes. I don't see why they would centralise the trailer around having one in it and then not delivering.

Having said that, other Warhammer games have had them in their trailers and such, but have not delivered in the actual game. This could simply be due to the fact that Greater Daemons are cinamatically pleasing hhaha

Indypride

This was an announcement trailer released in April of last year. It was a Lord of change, a greater daemon of Tzeentch meant to scream Chaos at prospective buyers and get people hyped for the game. The trailer was not reflective of gameplay, and just because we saw a lord of change for the last few seconds of a trailer a year before release doesn't mean we should expect one in the first game. I don't think we will see any Greater daemons in the first game in actual gameplay.

Daemons of Chaos will come in one of the later expansions (I cant see them making Daemons of Chaos as DLC at this point, because people would FREAK out just on principle) and with that race I'm sure we will see Greater Daemons. But it will probably be a couple of years from now.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

octavian1127

^^ That sums up my expectations exactly.

Sviavledi

bennymcl said:

Or.. maybe you shouldn't tell your friend stuff you don't know ? Lol... That couldnbe a good start to not being a liar. /.../

Indypride said:

This was an announcement trailer released in April of last year. It was a Lord of change, a greater daemon of Tzeentch meant to scream Chaos at prospective buyers and get people hyped for the game. The trailer was not reflective of gameplay, and just because we saw a lord of change for the last few seconds of a trailer a year before release doesn't mean we should expect one in the first game. I don't think we will see any Greater daemons in the first game in actual gameplay.

Daemons of Chaos will come in one of the later expansions (I cant see them making Daemons of Chaos as DLC at this point, because people would FREAK out just on principle) and with that race I'm sure we will see Greater Daemons. But it will probably be a couple of years from now.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

My reasoning was that CA wouldn't put on a video that wasn't thought out. Naturally fans would dissect the trailer and weed out what we're getting.

Indypride

Sure very understandable. I would just argue that a promotional announcement trailer so far from release doesn't prove or promise that something will be in the game. Provided that the first TW Warhammer game is successful, and more Warhammer games are created, we will absolutely see Greater Daemons like Lords of Change.

I'm sure the trailer was very well thought out, hinting at stuff that will come at some point in the trilogy. I just don't think they'll be playable or seen in cutscenes in the first game. I would love to be wrong though!

Segersgia

Another thng to note:
during the "how did they do the trailer" video, they said most of the assets they used were already modeled by the game developers and they just added some more detail to them. This means that the Lord of Change was already an asset they made.

Might be an indication that they will be in, or that they made the models, but scrapped them to be added with downloadable content or a future expansion

Sviavledi

Segersgia said:

Another thng to note:
during the "how did they do the trailer" video, they said most of the assets they used were already modeled by the game developers and they just added some more detail to them. This means that the Lord of Change was already an asset they made.

Might be an indication that they will be in, or that they made the models, but scrapped them to be added with downloadable content or a future expansion

I hope it's a feature thing involving chaos, as suggested by the video of the priest turning.
Corruption reached a certain percentage, and a greater "Skeksis" is spawned you can battle with.

Indypride said:

Sure very understandable. I would just argue that a promotional announcement trailer so far from release doesn't prove or promise that something will be in the game. Provided that the first TW Warhammer game is successful, and more Warhammer games are created, we will absolutely see Greater Daemons like Lords of Change.

I'm sure the trailer was very well thought out, hinting at stuff that will come at some point in the trilogy. I just don't think they'll be playable or seen in cutscenes in the first game. I would love to be wrong though!

From a marketing standpoint, everything the company says or does is a promise - but mistakes happen. Not too sure if the announcement trailer would promise too much that we're not going to see in the initial release. But we'll see.

Also, keep up the good work with your youtube videos there - quality stuff.
Cheers.

capybarasiesta89

Sviavledi said:

bennymcl said:

Or.. maybe you shouldn't tell your friend stuff you don't know ? Lol... That couldnbe a good start to not being a liar. /.../

Indypride said:

This was an announcement trailer released in April of last year. It was a Lord of change, a greater daemon of Tzeentch meant to scream Chaos at prospective buyers and get people hyped for the game. The trailer was not reflective of gameplay, and just because we saw a lord of change for the last few seconds of a trailer a year before release doesn't mean we should expect one in the first game. I don't think we will see any Greater daemons in the first game in actual gameplay.

Daemons of Chaos will come in one of the later expansions (I cant see them making Daemons of Chaos as DLC at this point, because people would FREAK out just on principle) and with that race I'm sure we will see Greater Daemons. But it will probably be a couple of years from now.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it

My reasoning was that CA wouldn't put on a video that wasn't thought out. Naturally fans would dissect the trailer and weed out what we're getting.

Patrikseve

Chaos is an end game threat and not the faction you get from pre order another chaos in the wastes... so that AI army can potentially have one late game.

Shadowkire

Sviavledi said:

My reasoning was that CA wouldn't put on a video that wasn't thought out. Naturally fans would dissect the trailer and weed out what we're getting.

While it wasn't CA who made it, Mark of Chaos(a Total War-like game set in the Warhammer universe) had a Bloodthirster of Khorne in their trailer and it did not show up in the game.

I think the Lord of Change will be in the trilogy at some point, but I am skeptical of the idea it will be in on the first release.

ImmaculateDeception

Having the Lord of Change in the first title goes against the generally accepted rules of a Trilogy. You cant follow it up with much that is worse. You build up to it.

Sviavledi

Segersgia said:

Another thng to note:
during the "how did they do the trailer" video, they said most of the assets they used were already modeled by the game developers and they just added some more detail to them. This means that the Lord of Change was already an asset they made.

Might be an indication that they will be in, or that they made the models, but scrapped them to be added with downloadable content or a future expansion

Patrikseve said:

Chaos is an end game threat and not the faction you get from pre order another chaos in the wastes... so that AI army can potentially have one late game.

Chaos from the Chaos Wastes led by Archeon is the end threat, sorta I think. Judging from the greenskin campaign trailer it showed the land as already having a % of Chaos (or Vampiric) influence. So it's possible Chaos influence might grow early on and effect your settlements.

Shadowkire said:

Sviavledi said:

My reasoning was that CA wouldn't put on a video that wasn't thought out. Naturally fans would dissect the trailer and weed out what we're getting.

While it wasn't CA who made it, Mark of Chaos(a Total War-like game set in the Warhammer universe) had a Bloodthirster of Khorne in their trailer and it did not show up in the game.

I think the Lord of Change will be in the trilogy at some point, but I am skeptical of the idea it will be in on the first release.

Holy ****, you're right. Though that game as I understood it promised a lot more than it could deliver too. Larger battles for one. CA is hopefully a bigger, better funded organisation that can deliver what is presented.

ImmaculateDeception said:

Having the Lord of Change in the first title goes against the generally accepted rules of a Trilogy. You cant follow it up with much that is worse. You build up to it.

Sure you can. You could stuff Nagash in there, or have all four powers represented at a certain point in the gameplay. Alternatively Empire could get a Ulric or Sigmar avatar and the Dwarfs get a Fire stunty God as end game material. The floodgates of insanity should be open when Archeon well arrives. Could be good for replayability if all you worked for is washed away more or less, you want to try doing it in another way next time.

Trenyt

I'm not sure it will be Archeon leading the Chaos 'Invasion' event later in the game since Archeon is a playable character in the campaign. I'm actually quite intrigued as to how the Chaos Warriors faction feeds into the Chaos Invasion in the late game, whether they get a chance to join it, or get wiped out by it as well.

Dalakh

Trenyt said:

I'm not sure it will be Archeon leading the Chaos 'Invasion' event later in the game since Archeon is a playable character in the campaign. I'm actually quite intrigued as to how the Chaos Warriors faction feeds into the Chaos Invasion in the late game, whether they get a chance to join it, or get wiped out by it as well.

Eeeeeh... As the WoC you ARE the the Chaos Invasion. Goddamn Archaon himself. You play WoC => you get to invade. AI is WoC => they get spawned stack like the Huns in Attila or the Mongols in M2TW and they are the Chaos invasion.

Trenyt

Dalakh said:

Trenyt said:

I'm not sure it will be Archeon leading the Chaos 'Invasion' event later in the game since Archeon is a playable character in the campaign. I'm actually quite intrigued as to how the Chaos Warriors faction feeds into the Chaos Invasion in the late game, whether they get a chance to join it, or get wiped out by it as well.

Eeeeeh... As the WoC you ARE the the Chaos Invasion. Goddamn Archaon himself. You play WoC => you get to invade. AI is WoC => they get spawned stack like the Huns in Attila or the Mongols in M2TW and they are the Chaos invasion.

Since nothing has been confirmed, this is not a certainty. Since Chaos Daemons and their ilk are not part of the Chaos Warrior faction, I was under the assumption that the far reaching invasion event that happens later in the game would be outside of this playable faction. Also if it was the Chaos Warriors, what end game challenge would you actually have if you played them?

Dalakh

Trenyt said:

Since nothing has been confirmed, this is not a certainty. Since Chaos Daemons and their ilk are not part of the Chaos Warrior faction, I was under the assumption that the far reaching invasion event that happens later in the game would be outside of this playable faction. Also if it was the Chaos Warriors, what end game challenge would you actually have if you played them?

It would require tremendous amounts of work to include the Daemons of Chaos. The fact that the WoC are a DLC faction is indication enough that they were meant to be the end game threat before they were meant to be playable.
What end game challenge do you have as the Huns in Attila ? None, only the challenge of being a Horde. Still Attila is the end games challenge there. It's the same tihng really.

Btw do you guys remember how the Huns weren't announced as a playable faction until very late ? I wonder what else they had planned alternatively.

Snotface

I dont think it was a reference to anything in game. I think i t was more 'Our Rules have Changed' - Lord of Change symbolism, of no longer just doing historical titles.

but that was just my take.

Trenyt

They said that the Chaos Warriors were intended to be playable, just not in the first game. However due to player requests for Chaos to be playable they brought in a new revenue stream to pay for a new design team to create them as DLC. That isn't really any indication that the warriors were meant to be the 'end game' threat. I believe the Huns were going to be same thing, initially not playable but planned as the invasion, but later redesigned because the player base requested them as playable. It would make sense why there is no real end game threat when playing as the Huns as time constraints after changing them might have dictated some cuts.

Granted Attila and his Hunnic swarms are the end game threat in Total War: Attila, but if you play as the Huns it basically removes that and as such in my opinion makes playing as them a lackluster experience. What challenge is there if the end game threat has been totally nullified. I feel that offering a Chaos faction to play while having the threat still real, as the Daemons/Gods solves both of those issues (to an extent).

They also stated that all factions would have a unique play style and while I don't think that the Chaos Warriors being the total of the invasion is unique at all, since it would just be continue on as usual with your current funds/forces (as in Total War:Attila), being part of the invasion potentially could provide a unique play through. My speculation is that since the warriors are basically always trying to prove themselves worthy of the Chaos Gods, maybe your play through is to spread their influence through objectives and missions and be judged worthy when the invasion hits. If you are you join the Invasion as the vanguard, if you aren't you are culled just like the rest for being weak.

In regards to extra work being needed to put Daemons (and such) into the first game, this is true. However if their grand plan for this story driven game was for the invasion to be the pinnacle of all playthroughs, it is not unreasonable for them to create that force with the time they have since it would be a defining point of the game. I also find it hard to believe that they would base their entire story concept in the cinematic trailer for this first game around Chaos corruption and Tzeentch when they weren't in the game to any large degree.

Obviously this is all my opinion and speculative thought, but I think there will be a Daemon presence in the game, but unplayable and a potential threat to all, Chaos Warriors included. At least I think that would be a much better scenario then the Warriors having a replicated Hunnic experience. But it looks like we might have to agree to disagree Dalakh, which is fine with me

UchihaG

Well, I have probably found the perfect answer for your question. Here is a quote from the Total War page:

‘Cinematic Trailer’
This is a video that doesn’t use the game engine to produce its visuals. They might use some game assets like models and audio to contribute to the making of them, but for the avoidance of doubt, please assume that nothing you are seeing is from the game itself. These are typically CGI or Live Action trailers and videos, and will be otherwise very apparent.

ImmaculateDeception

Dalakh said:

Trenyt said:

I'm not sure it will be Archeon leading the Chaos 'Invasion' event later in the game since Archeon is a playable character in the campaign. I'm actually quite intrigued as to how the Chaos Warriors faction feeds into the Chaos Invasion in the late game, whether they get a chance to join it, or get wiped out by it as well.

Eeeeeh... As the WoC you ARE the the Chaos Invasion. Goddamn Archaon himself. You play WoC => you get to invade. AI is WoC => they get spawned stack like the Huns in Attila or the Mongols in M2TW and they are the Chaos invasion.

Yeah, basically...due to massive amounts of people stating their disappointment with not having Chaos as one of the initial four starting races, CA took the end game threat faction of WoC and turned it into a player faction as well. The stated Legendary Lords of the playable faction include Archaon and Archaon IS the leader of Chaos Undivided. The other two are just secondary Legendary Lords to spice up the WoC gameplay, making it have more replay value.

There will be no Chaos invasion that is invading chaos lands. You either are invaded by Chaos or you are Chaos.

ImmaculateDeception

HoneyBun said:

ImmaculateDeception said:

Having the Lord of Change in the first title goes against the generally accepted rules of a Trilogy. You cant follow it up with much that is worse. You build up to it.

Yes this must be right.

Extending the logic, Skaven will be the 'big bad' of Game 2 and Daemons the ultimate 'big bad' of Game 3

Its like you took that right out of one of my previous posts. Did you?

Either way, absolutely agree. You thought there was complaining about WoC preorder/dlc? Just wait till the Skaven fanatics see their favorite faction be preorder/dlc for the second title.

Sviavledi

UchihaG said:

Well, I have probably found the perfect answer for your question. Here is a quote from the Total War page:

‘Cinematic Trailer’
This is a video that doesn’t use the game engine to produce its visuals. They might use some game assets like models and audio to contribute to the making of them, but for the avoidance of doubt, please assume that nothing you are seeing is from the game itself. These are typically CGI or Live Action trailers and videos, and will be otherwise very apparent.

I'm not buying it. So far most everything they've showed us from the actual game was featured in the trailer.
It's only the giant blue persian bird daemon in the end that's not been revealed yet. Everything else seems to be there; units, heroes and settings etc etc. Either it's a miss or something yet to be revealed.