More discourse on alpha stage and changes

Sviavledi

So now that the game is in alpha stage, what changes to the units already seen would we like to see - and are we going to see?

Personally, I hope they change these awful looking, under armoured, conquistador looking halberdiers.



to these proper looking ones



What would you like to see changed?

SiWI#8629

Master Engineer for the Empire. Not likely to get them on 28th April, but I like them.

Grimtalos

I was thinking about the Master Engineer as a hero for empire. While I can see them working on the battlefield with all the strange equipment they get. I cant think of how they would work on the campaign map.

I would like the Troll's walking animations looked at, in the blackfire video they look odd when walking. Dont think we got a good look at them in the Thundering Falls video.

UchihaG

Here's a list of my desired unit roster changes:

• Empire:
  - Add the Imperial Dragon as Mount for Karl Franz
  - Add Master Engineers and the Mechanical Steed as mount for them
  - Add Archers
  - Add Flagellants
  - Add the Knightly Orders, most of all the Knights of the White Wolf, the Knights of the Blazing Sun and the Knights Panther
  
  
• Dwarfs:
  - Add the Anvil of Doom
  - Add Rangers
  - Add Bolth Throwers
  - Add Gyrobombers (if not already included in the game)
  
  
• Greenskins:
  - Add Squig Herds
  - Add Squig Hoppers
  - Add Mangler Squigs
  - Add Goblin Spear Chukkas
  
  
• Warriors of Chaos:
  - Add Juggernauts, Discs of Tzeenth and Palanquins of Nurgle as mounts
  - Add Daemon Princes
  - Add Hellstriders of Slaanesh
  - Add Skullcrushers of Khorne
  - Add Chimerae
  - Add Slaughtrbrutes
  - Add Mutalith Vortex Beasts
  

I certainly hope these units will be added or at least a big part of them. In my opinion the Empire and Warriors of Chaos rosters are missing more units than their Dwarf and Greenskin counterpart and should really be updated. If the revealed Warriors of Chaos roster on Steam is indeed the final one, I will be heavily disappointed and might not even preorder. So many great things missing in there!

Sviavledi

UchihaG said:

Here's a list of my desired unit roster changes:

• Empire:
  - Add the Imperial Dragon as Mount for Karl Franz
  - Add Master Engineers and the Mechanical Steed as mount for them
  - Add Archers
  - Add Flagellants
  - Add the Knightly Orders, most of all the Knights of the White Wolf, the Knights of the Blazing Sun and the Knights Panther
  
  
• Dwarfs:
  - Add the Anvil of Doom
  - Add Rangers
  - Add Bolth Throwers
  - Add Gyrobombers (if not already included in the game)
  
  
• Greenskins:
  - Add Squig Herds
  - Add Squig Hoppers
  - Add Mangler Squigs
  - Add Goblin Spear Chukkas
  
  
• Warriors of Chaos:
  - Add Juggernauts, Discs of Tzeenth and Palanquins of Nurgle as mounts
  - Add Daemon Princes
  - Add Hellstriders of Slaanesh
  - Add Skullcrushers of Khorne
  - Add Chimerae
  - Add Slaughtrbrutes
  - Add Mutalith Vortex Beasts
  

I certainly hope these units will be added or at least a big part of them. In my opinion the Empire and Warriors of Chaos rosters are missing more units than their Dwarf and Greenskin counterpart and should really be updated. If the revealed Warriors of Chaos roster on Steam is indeed the final one, I will be heavily disappointed and might not even preorder. So many great things missing in there!

Hopefully uncle CA will oblige you!

Zalgo

UchihaG said:

Here's a list of my desired unit roster changes:

• Empire:
  - Add the Imperial Dragon as Mount for Karl Franz
  - Add Master Engineers and the Mechanical Steed as mount for them
  - Add Archers
  - Add Flagellants
  - Add the Knightly Orders, most of all the Knights of the White Wolf, the Knights of the Blazing Sun and the Knights Panther
  
  
• Dwarfs:
  - Add the Anvil of Doom
  - Add Rangers
  - Add Bolth Throwers
  - Add Gyrobombers (if not already included in the game)
  
  
• Greenskins:
  - Add Squig Herds
  - Add Squig Hoppers
  - Add Mangler Squigs
  - Add Goblin Spear Chukkas
  
  
• Warriors of Chaos:
  - Add Juggernauts, Discs of Tzeenth and Palanquins of Nurgle as mounts
  - Add Daemon Princes
  - Add Hellstriders of Slaanesh
  - Add Skullcrushers of Khorne
  - Add Chimerae
  - Add Slaughtrbrutes
  - Add Mutalith Vortex Beasts
  

I certainly hope these units will be added or at least a big part of them. In my opinion the Empire and Warriors of Chaos rosters are missing more units than their Dwarf and Greenskin counterpart and should really be updated. If the revealed Warriors of Chaos roster on Steam is indeed the final one, I will be heavily disappointed and might not even preorder. So many great things missing in there!

I could see so much of this being dlc, sadly... Imperial dragon though

The juggernaut chariot is a mount option by the way, and chaos is undivided so they won't really have units suited to the different gods.

UchihaG

You mean the Gorebeast Chariot, the Juggernaut is missing! And I know it's Chaos Undivided, yet they are using Sigvald, so they have no excuse for leaving them out. Furthermore all the units I listed are in the 8th edition WoC army book and they told us they are taking the 8th edition as reference, so there is, again, no excuse for leaving so many units out! I hope they add at least a big part of them because that would probably convince me to preorder the game despite the controversial announcements.

SiWI#8629

UchihaG said:

You mean the Gorebeast Chariot, the Juggernaut is missing! And I know it's Chaos Undivided, yet they are using Sigvald, so they have no excuse for leaving them out. Furthermore all the units I listed are in the 8th edition WoC army book and they told us they are taking the 8th edition as reference, so there is, again, no excuse for leaving so many units out! I hope they add at least a big part of them because that would probably convince me to preorder the game despite the controversial announcements.

The "excuse" is relative easy: time/money. Also remember that people were already complaining that the WoC would have one the biggest roster.
And as for chaos undivided:
I think they didn't do God specific, because they couldn't do all at once and didn't want to prefer one of the gods before the others.
The only reason they still picked Sigvald as LL at the start is simply because he is too fabulous not to be included.
(Seriously his quest have to be hilarious )

UchihaG

And? They should invest more time into their preorder-DLC faction if they really want to convince us. Furthermore, Warriors of Chaos will be the main antagonist in this installment, so they might as well make them worth our trust (preorder) and turn them into the monstrous faction they are. Without Juggernauts, Slaughterbrutes and Mutalith Vortex Beasts they seem like a "cute" version of WoC.

kempoman

UchihaG said:

And? They should invest more time into their preorder-DLC faction if they really want to convince us. Furthermore, Warriors of Chaos will be the main antagonist in this installment, so they might as well make them worth our trust (preorder) and turn them into the monstrous faction they are. Without Juggernauts, Slaughterbrutes and Mutalith Vortex Beasts they seem like a "cute" version of WoC.

There might be changes to the unit roster for some of the factions, including chaos. So let's wait and see.

Sviavledi

kempoman said:

UchihaG said:

And? They should invest more time into their preorder-DLC faction if they really want to convince us. Furthermore, Warriors of Chaos will be the main antagonist in this installment, so they might as well make them worth our trust (preorder) and turn them into the monstrous faction they are. Without Juggernauts, Slaughterbrutes and Mutalith Vortex Beasts they seem like a "cute" version of WoC.

There might be changes to the unit roster for some of the factions, including chaos. So let's wait and see.

This thread is meant to encourage you to share your hopes and dreams, preferably with pictures!

Ree09619

If you go back to watching the "Introducing... Savage Orc Boar Boy Big'Uns" video you'll notice the statetroops charging at the end have different feathered helms and softcaps. This implies that they HAVE hopefully gotten rid of the conquistador helms. All that's left is to add more bits of armor and you should have what you wanted.

Sviavledi

Ree09619 said:

If you go back to watching the "Introducing... Savage Orc Boar Boy Big'Uns" video you'll notice the statetroops charging at the end have different feathered helms and softcaps. This implies that they HAVE hopefully gotten rid of the conquistador helms. All that's left is to add more bits of armor and you should have what you wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJ-9gn8J1M


Hey, you're right. Still perhaps too much red there, should be more armour but looks like an improvement.

Ree09619

Sviavledi said:

Ree09619 said:

If you go back to watching the "Introducing... Savage Orc Boar Boy Big'Uns" video you'll notice the statetroops charging at the end have different feathered helms and softcaps. This implies that they HAVE hopefully gotten rid of the conquistador helms. All that's left is to add more bits of armor and you should have what you wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJ-9gn8J1M


Hey, you're right. Still perhaps too much red there, should be more armour but looks like an improvement.

It's the pants. Their pants don't have the alternating red/white scheme like they do on their upper uniforms, not yet anyways. Fix that also and we should be good to go.

Soukie40

Number one request for me at this point would be the addition of beautifully animated flags and musiciens to each unit.

If it was possible at this stage of game development my number one wish would have been an underground map with only a few strategical entrances rather than a clunky looking stance, done like a theater of war in Empire or just a second layer of the map à la HOMM5. But oh well...

As has been said some units could be improved. Basic empire troops would look much better with tassets (thigh armor) no conquistador helmet and maybe slightly puffier shirts.

dwarf units really need variety expecially their thunderers and quarellers and basic warriors look like they have 2 or 3 head variations. Their elite units should get some variety too.

Giants could use more than one face.

The chaos warrriors didn't look nearly as cool as the figurines in my humble opinion (maybe it's the colours not metallic and black enough ?) and Kholek suneater's armor looks a bit fake/ like cardboard.


And some units are missing but there is still some hope for them (Knightly orders, flagellants, empire militia (looks cool and unique unlike the militia from historical titles), squigs and squig riders etc etc...

And finally I think some troops should get much more units than others : empire should get 160 orcs at least 160 if not 180 (outside of black orcs) and goblins something like 230/250 otherwise they will never be used with their current stats.

Having different starting positions for different legendary lords would be a plus.

I like pretty much everything else about the game (even the occupation system doesn't shock me too much) so while my list is long the list of things I love is even longer

Soukie40

HoneyBun said:

Ree09619 said:

Sviavledi said:

Ree09619 said:

If you go back to watching the "Introducing... Savage Orc Boar Boy Big'Uns" video you'll notice the statetroops charging at the end have different feathered helms and softcaps. This implies that they HAVE hopefully gotten rid of the conquistador helms. All that's left is to add more bits of armor and you should have what you wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJ-9gn8J1M


Hey, you're right. Still perhaps too much red there, should be more armour but looks like an improvement.

It's the pants. Their pants don't have the alternating red/white scheme like they do on their upper uniforms, not yet anyways. Fix that also and we should be good to go.

Or the fact that they appear to think that going to war in a onesie is a good idea ...

Or they want to be comfortable while **** their pants (a frequent occurence when fighting giants troll and maneating spiders )

Soukie2

Excuse me but why did I get banned ? This is ridiculous...

UchihaG

Gael400 said:

Excuse me but why did I get banned ? This is ridiculous...

Because as it seems nowadays companies don't need to follow article 10, point 1 of the human rights act:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises."

Commissar_G#7535

UchihaG said:

Gael400 said:

Excuse me but why did I get banned ? This is ridiculous...

Because as it seems nowadays companies don't need to follow article 10, point 1 of the human rights act:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises."

Except this is a privately owned forum.

UchihaG

Commissar_G said:

UchihaG said:

Gael400 said:

Excuse me but why did I get banned ? This is ridiculous...

Because as it seems nowadays companies don't need to follow article 10, point 1 of the human rights act:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises."

Except this is a privately owned forum.

Freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental human right, it applies to every situation and location. Or are you seriously implying that we should restrain from ANY criticism on here? If you do, then where is the point in possessing forums anyway? Communication is a bilateral process, not unilateral. The only restrictions to this right are other fundamental rights, for instance if you injure somebody with your choice of words. However, I don't see any offence in his threads. Quite the contrary, he even expressed his positive feelings towards the game and the devs. So WHERE is the reason for banning him? If you can point it out to me with a reasonable explanation, I will gladly abide.

CA_Luna

@UchihaG - He was banned due to a breach of Terms and Conditions which We wont go into detail here (but it wasnt with either of his posts on this thread), Please keep on topic

Warlocke

UchihaG said:

Freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental human right, it applies to every situation and location. .

No, it doesn't.

A homeowner is allowed to dictate what can and cannot be said in their home.
A CEO can dictate what can or cannot be said in a workplace.
A judge can dictate what language can and cannot be said in her courtroom.

There are countless situations where you don't have the right to say whatever you want.
You don't understand the quote you posted, or how freedom of expression works.

UchihaG

CharlotteB CA said:

@UchihaG - He was banned due to a breach of Terms and Conditions which We wont go into detail here (but it wasnt with either of his posts on this thread), Please keep on topic

Oh ok, sorry then.

Warlocke said:

UchihaG said:

Freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental human right, it applies to every situation and location. .

No, it doesn't.

A homeowner is allowed to dictate what can and cannot be said in their home.
A CEO can dictate what can or cannot be said in a workplace.
A judge can dictate what language can and cannot be said in her courtroom.

There are countless situations where you don't have the right to say whatever you want.
You don't understand the quote you posted, or how freedom of expression works.

As it seems you never heard about reciprocity ("Wechselwirkungslehre") in the court room? Look up the Lüth case of Erich Lüth in Germany and then we can talk. Freedom of thought and expression is considered one of the underlying mechanics of our current democratic society and if you are sued for expressing yourself properly, you will still win in any decent court room if you don't go overboard and portray your opinion in a offending manner. At least in Germany, I don't know where you live and how your system works though.

Still, please restrain yourself of claiming I haven't understood a quote if you are indeed the person who's lacking deeper understanding of the judicial system and don't even know how the system works in my country.

@CharlotteB CA
Sorry for this last off-topic again. It was the last response of this kind.

steam_1630793943266yAfwIR

I would like to see more units added to the roosters. Like squiggs and archers. One thing I really think they should add is banner on the actual battle map would look a lot better with banners high in the air.

Gael40

I don't get it, it was on a different account several months ago and tbh a very controversial decision... You know I can create an infinite number of accounts ? Why ban someone for posts that are civil ? It's a waste of your time and not very rational : you don't ban a human being, you ban an account as a sanction, and every post the person has made.

I don't want to hide and I'm trying to stay positive but you won't shut me up

Setrus#7519

Soukie said:

I don't get it, it was on a different account several months ago and tbh a very controversial decision... You know I can create an infinite number of accounts ? Why ban someone for posts that are civil ? It's a waste of your time and not very rational : you don't ban a human being, you ban an account as a sanction, and every post the person has made.

I don't want to hide and I'm trying to stay positive but you won't shut me up

They already said they won't go into the specifics of the banning.

And yes, you can create infinite accounts and try to bug them that way, they can also go the extra mile and block your IP and come up with all manner of fun things for some users, if they think that the terms and conditions somehow don't apply to them.

DwarfMasterRace

Well the fact that the Dwarfs have NO magic, even though in the lore they basically do, and magic is a big draw to this game, is a little irritating. Runic magic, Runesmiths/lords and the Anvil of Doom should be in the game and give Dwarfs some basic magic capabilities (mostly counter-spells and buffs, some attacks).

In addition to that, Dwarf Rangers for skirmishing would be great.

Also the Gyrobomber! It was specifically mentioned in an earlier interview, yet for some reason is not on the army roster. It would be great as a very deadly, yet vulnerable unit. Something you are taking a risk with when you use it, because it could inflict a decisive blow or it could be shot down, being a big loss to you.

The bolt thrower as a cheaper war machine prior to the unlocking of cannons seemed a logical choice, but I guess it's not totally necessary. That said every unit should be in the game!

Slayer heroes would be nice too.

As for legendary heroes, Thorik Ironbrow , Joseph Bugman and Malakai Makaisson would be cool.

Also another thing - Dwarfs have railways. Assuming we can develop infrastructure such as roads like in past games, it would be pretty cool to have Dwarf railways implemented as their best road type. Would look lovely on the map to see little Dwarf steam trains moving along bridges and through tunnels in the mountains!

Commissar_G#7535

A FoTS style railway between there karaks would be awesome, if a little unfair advantage for the Dwarfs.

Shadowkire

Runesmiths, gyrobombers, and probably the anvil of doom are in the game. CA has already said the "full" rosters they released more than a month ago were rosters that they would definitely have at release, even if they hit roadblocks. CA has since been teasing additions to these rosters because apparently development has been going well.

Look in this forum for the Dwarf building tree announcement thread, look at the picture and read the first page or two for these units.

SiWI#8629

dwarfmasterrace said:

Well the fact that the Dwarfs have NO magic, even though in the lore they basically do, and magic is a big draw to this game, is a little irritating. Runic magic, Runesmiths/lords and the Anvil of Doom should be in the game and give Dwarfs some basic magic capabilities (mostly counter-spells and buffs, some attacks).

"basically do" is a big word for one warmachine/mount with 3 spells. Runes will be most certainly part of unit upgrades and it appears a army can earn them and then very battle decided which one gets the runes.

In addition to that, Dwarf Rangers for skirmishing would be great.

I'm unsure if they would work well.
They would need to be more expensive than quarrels and I not sure if some of they stuff (deployment) is practical to use.

Also the Gyrobomber! It was specifically mentioned in an earlier interview, yet for some reason is not on the army roster. It would be great as a very deadly, yet vulnerable unit. Something you are taking a risk with when you use it, because it could inflict a decisive blow or it could be shot down, being a big loss to you.

With the news Shadowkire mention there is a good chance that they actually coming (or already here).

The bolt thrower as a cheaper war machine prior to the unlocking of cannons seemed a logical choice, but I guess it's not totally necessary. That said every unit should be in the game!

It would be awesome if we get the rest of the armybook over time.

Slayer heroes would be nice too.

I was surprise that the slayer characters (both lord and hero) were missing.
Hopefully they arrive soon enough.

DwarfMasterRace

Well then with all that said I'm gonna stick with dwarf steam trains as the main little thing I wanna see added, to give some movement and income boost for Dwarfs in their territories, and just look really cool on the map.