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Buy/Sell/Gift Regions Feature

MalakenMalaken Junior MemberPosts: 8Registered Users
Hello Creative Assembly.

I appreciate all the work you're putting into the games you create and hope you consider my suggestion to bring back this old yet gold feature.

One of the things I enjoy in Total War games is 'Roleplaying' in a way, I know in ROME II I would unite all of Italy under the roman flag then act as a sort of 'Peace Keeper' for my 'Civilized Greek Factions' that I set up all around the world. I would focus on liberating these factions I deemed 'Civilized' in order to keep the Barbarians at bay. Instead of trying to conquer the world, I enjoyed creating stories and scenarios. One thing I wish I could do however was liberate Athens then grant them all of Greece to act as my 'Power' in the region, same with Egypt.

This feature has been long gone however, and I would appreciate it if you put such a feature into Warhammer :Total War. For example, I am playing as the Empire and witness my Bretonnian ally's removed from the map from Greenskins. How fun would it be to embark on a campaign to take the land back from the Greenskins, Liberate the Bretonnic Capital then gift all their lands back to form a mighty ally in the west?

Obviously gifting/selling/buying regions would require the following...
-Cannot gift/sell/buy your capital.
-Cannot gift/sell/buy settlements your factions cannot control (IE: Empire cannot take a hold)

Whether or not the offer is accepted could depend on variables such as...
-Relationship
-Importance of region
-Gold being offered/demanded

That is all I can ponder up for the moment, I hope you consider this and would be happy to see it implemented! (Maybe even implemented into Rome II and Attila)

I wish you the best in creating this game.

Comments

  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Posts: 950Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    this would be nice. it would also be nice when this situation occurs:

    you're in an alliance with some factions. some other faction (not one of your allies) gets mad and declares war on you. as soon as they declare war on you, your allies join in. or maybe you asked your allies to assist you. you proceed to stomp them. you then decide to make them your client state or satrap or whatever. why are the other factions in your alliance still at war with them? they should negotiate peace immediately since they are now no longer a sovereign state and are under your protection or guidance.

    so agreeing with Malaken, now i have a client state after that situation above, yah? certainly would be nice to gift them some regions i don't want or would rather have them have as a buffer. and it would certainly be nice in co-op as sometimes it would just make more sense for one person to conquer an area and then give it to their partner. and it could also work in peace agreements where as conditions of peace, the weaker faction may be coerced into giving territory. Knights of Honor actually did a pretty good job with this.

    given the problems with client states/satraps and all that jazz being can't gift regions, demand regions and allies persisting in war against your client state. I almost never even bother with creating them. the AI doesn't even seem to do a decent job of expanding, even if you give them thousands and have an army protect their region while they're off fighting. only game i've seen my ally do a pretty decent job was Attila with AoC. played Cordoba, allied with Brittany, went to war against the whole British Isles, Brittany actually sends large armies up there to attack the war coordination target. was pleasantly surprised.


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  • MalakenMalaken Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users

    this would be nice. it would also be nice when this situation occurs:

    you're in an alliance with some factions. some other faction (not one of your allies) gets mad and declares war on you. as soon as they declare war on you, your allies join in. or maybe you asked your allies to assist you. you proceed to stomp them. you then decide to make them your client state or satrap or whatever. why are the other factions in your alliance still at war with them? they should negotiate peace immediately since they are now no longer a sovereign state and are under your protection or guidance.

    so agreeing with Malaken, now i have a client state after that situation above, yah? certainly would be nice to gift them some regions i don't want or would rather have them have as a buffer. and it would certainly be nice in co-op as sometimes it would just make more sense for one person to conquer an area and then give it to their partner. and it could also work in peace agreements where as conditions of peace, the weaker faction may be coerced into giving territory. Knights of Honor actually did a pretty good job with this.

    given the problems with client states/satraps and all that jazz being can't gift regions, demand regions and allies persisting in war against your client state. I almost never even bother with creating them. the AI doesn't even seem to do a decent job of expanding, even if you give them thousands and have an army protect their region while they're off fighting. only game i've seen my ally do a pretty decent job was Attila with AoC. played Cordoba, allied with Brittany, went to war against the whole British Isles, Brittany actually sends large armies up there to attack the war coordination target. was pleasantly surprised.

    Agreed.
  • bennymclbennymcl Senior Member Montreal, CanadaPosts: 2,797Registered Users
    Yep. This would add such a great additional layer of strategy to the Settlement/Hold mechanic meaning that a strong meaningful alliance with a powerful Dwarf faction as the Empire would be awesome because you could gift each other with the other's region type... would be a very cool and niche mechanic!
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Posts: 472Registered Users
    yes when you subjugate or vassal a faction it should automatic give them same treaties you have between you and your allies.

    Also subjugated factions should have something like 10 turns without diplomatic freedom, ie: they act like vassals for 10 turns then go back to own business.
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  • TwitchyTwitchy Posts: 176Registered Users
    Really happy with your idea! It would be good to enhance the diplomacy options of TW across the board starting with gifting city's.
    Malaken said:


    For example, I am playing as the Empire and witness my Bretonnian ally's removed from the map from Greenskins. How fun would it be to embark on a campaign to take the land back from the Greenskins, Liberate the Bretonnic Capital then gift all their lands back to form a mighty ally in the west?

    I quoted this not to be a pain in the ass but to show a good reason why Regional Occupation is bad in my view.
    What you have written there can never happen in TW:W. Empire will never be able to get bretonnian lands back from the greenskins, because those greenskins can only raze "human" city's.
    It could work like you write for Vampier counts! But this shows you how big a impackt RO will have in the game and how unnatural it really is.


  • MalakenMalaken Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    Twitchy said:

    Really happy with your idea! It would be good to enhance the diplomacy options of TW across the board starting with gifting city's.

    Malaken said:


    For example, I am playing as the Empire and witness my Bretonnian ally's removed from the map from Greenskins. How fun would it be to embark on a campaign to take the land back from the Greenskins, Liberate the Bretonnic Capital then gift all their lands back to form a mighty ally in the west?

    I quoted this not to be a pain in the ass but to show a good reason why Regional Occupation is bad in my view.
    What you have written there can never happen in TW:W. Empire will never be able to get bretonnian lands back from the greenskins, because those greenskins can only raze "human" city's.
    It could work like you write for Vampier counts! But this shows you how big a impackt RO will have in the game and how unnatural it really is.


    I appreciate your agreement with my wishes for such a feature!
    In regards to the RO thing, I am inclined to agree with you as well aside from the fact I reserve final judgement until I've actually tried it out. Alas despite my attitude towards 'trying before I judge', I still see RO as a potential issue. Would be interesting if they could make it a 'Toggleble' thing, perhaps you can only attain certain achievements if you play with RO.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,952Registered Users
    It's actually more important in recent total wars than in older ones because of the province/region system. Especially in multiplayer.
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  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Senior Member Posts: 3,549Registered Users

    It's actually more important in recent total wars than in older ones because of the province/region system. Especially in multiplayer.

    +1, completely agree.

    This is one area I'm going to go a little hard on CA and say "Why hasn't this been done yet?" It's a little ridiculous that this isn't a thing, especially with the province system.
  • Grave_DiggerGrave_Digger Posts: 561Registered Users

    It's actually more important in recent total wars than in older ones because of the province/region system. Especially in multiplayer.

    I simply can't imagine the thought process of adding a province system and not re-implementing the possibility to trade regions (even though that feature was already in earleir TW titles).
  • twwatchertwwatcher Posts: 2,088Registered Users
    I think this sort of thing is no longer a feature of TW titles because of the difficulty of programming a competent AI in this area.

    @Malaken first draft seems a reasonable set of considerations for the AI:
    -Relationship
    -Importance of region
    -Gold being offered/demanded

    Relationship looks doable as CA has already moved to an in depth quantitative approach in the way diplomacy is handled. Gold is probably doable although once rich and powerful open to exploitation. How does the AI work out the importance of a region though whether being offered a region or requesting one ?

    Other considerations would be throttling repeated requests and effect on AI turn times. That's not to say it would add to the game but I don't think it is something CA should add half baked.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Posts: 3,606Registered Users
    I would really like gifting and demanding region to be a part of the game, though I do see how it brings a few potential problems:

    - Player can trick AI in accepting territories that are actually bad for them (Too remote, poor, or surrounded by enemies).
    - Player can trick AI into acting as a buffer in a way that a human would never accept.
    - Player can trick AI into not attempting to reclaim a conquered region, due to it being gifted to a friend of the conqueror who is not at war with the AI.

    I'd more than love to have this feature in if they can make sure that the AI can react to it accordingly. Even more so with the limited occupations, I hope that as the empire, you can give a dwarf hold back to the dwarfs rather than pillage it.
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  • FreaktouristFreaktourist Posts: 64Registered Users
    krunsh said:

    I would really like gifting and demanding region to be a part of the game, though I do see how it brings a few potential problems:

    - Player can trick AI in accepting territories that are actually bad for them (Too remote, poor, or surrounded by enemies).
    - Player can trick AI into acting as a buffer in a way that a human would never accept.
    - Player can trick AI into not attempting to reclaim a conquered region, due to it being gifted to a friend of the conqueror who is not at war with the AI.
    t.

    I could do that to a dumb human too :D !
  • thesniperdevilthesniperdevil Senior Member Posts: 1,929Registered Users
    Liked the OP for this most important of features. I have the exact same playstyle & found it impossible in Rome 2. The only way I achieved it was to donate a tonne of gold to a recently liberated civilised faction then giving it war targets on cities I had raised to oblivion. I just had to hope that another of my allies didn't get there first.

    it was painful to do....

    I understand the issues with AI not understanding the feature properly, however I feel that it is a critical feature for diplomacy and so the issues should be overcome & not be another case of "fixed by removal"
  • Grave_DiggerGrave_Digger Posts: 561Registered Users
    AI is not the problem.

    Restrict it this way:

    - Can't trade capitols (liberating still possible)
    - AI only accepts provinces as gifts (AI won't give you anything for provinces or only very very little)
    - AI doesn't give away regions (I'd prefer they do but really expensive. Maybe cheaper when you hold other provinces in the same region so you can eliminate some border gore. Also enhancing the diplomacy.)
    - Provinces that are traded can't be too far away


    That is just I came up with. If you spend 10 minutes thinking about it you can probably do better.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,730Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    There can certainly be some decent rules around it but I think it should depend on relations along with borders and if you or the trade partner already control regions in the same province.

    Trading regions where there is a faction capitol in the same province can only be traded to the faction with the capitol in that province IF the capitol is currently controlled by the rightful faction owner.

    Buying a region should start at 100x province income modified by relations above +100. So if a region base income is 600 per turn then the cost to buy at +100 relations is 60,000. If relations are at +200 then the cost to buy is 30,000. Positive relations above 100 equal 2 per 1% so to have a region cost nothing requires +300 relations but reduces relations by 50 per transaction (some will always be angry about such a trade).

    To prevent abuse simply require trade partners to already own a region in the same province and the province can not contain enemy armies or border enemy faction (so wars would have to be won before trading could occur).

    A player could with those rules if very patient wait for an invading army to capture an allies region- then recapture it and defeat that enemy or push the borders back and then buy the rest of the regions in that province but with -50 relations drop and considering it takes 100s of turns to achieve +300 relations (where cost would be nothing) it couldn't happen very often and is still a much poorer strategy of expansion than simply joining a war against that ally.

    For those few occasions where there is a very trusted and long term ally having +300 relations is possible to get a region for free occasionally if already owning another region in same province. More often people wouldn't wait for +300 relations and simply around +200 start buying since if there is trade with that ally worth 1,000 per turn and the base income of that region is 600 per turn, then paying 30,000 there is profit from the exchange after only 18 turns.

    For AI to offer to buy regions same rules with caveat that it must be at war with 2 or less factions and have 2x the price of the region in the treasury.


    Even more important than buying/selling regions though is a way to ask 2 allies/vassals to agree to peace/ceasefire via diplomacy. Relations of both factions with player faction and the faction leader personality traits should influence how likely both factions are to accepting such a diplomatic move but at least an OPTION for it.
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