Air Monster Units

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I noticed on some of the battles with Air Monster Units. That they are very powerful and fly around attacking other air units or archers. But the units that are advantage against monsters are only ground units. So how do they attack them if they can't get to the air monster units. I also think that the air monster units should have a certain health where if hit to much be only able to walk around or fly less as long. Any other ideas would be cool to hear about.

Mattzo

Flying units have to land at somepoint. Then you strike with anti-large.

In the meantime, ranged.

Angmir

Mattzo said:

Flying units have to land at somepoint. Then you strike with anti-large.

In the meantime, ranged.

No it was shown time and again that they dont have to land if they dont want to. It is entirely possible to hover entire battle in the air.

They only land when they attack in mele.

Exploiting player can hoover with one mage on pegasus over entire army composed of mele only Chaos Warriors without ever landing once.

I wonder can you land your flying units without ordering them to attack.

In last video it would make sense to land this pegasus knight between Halbardiers to force Terrorgheist and bats to ground level.

Flyinpenguin117

My thoughts:
-Generally, they'll be weaker than ground-based monsters, as a trade-off for their higher mobility.
-Keeping them flying will increase their fatigue faster, ergo, they don't fight or move as effectively
-Also, based on the video today with the Terrorgheist, it looks like its possible for them to stay landed- the Terrorgheist did some lumbering around and attacking different units without taking off again.

Silvetica

i too have noticed balance issues in a game that none of us have played.

wingren013

Lionheart made a major error in not actually dealing with the Terrorgheist. Lightning bolts, his Paladin, War Machine fire, or archers would have all worked. By the time he actually did something it was too late.

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529

That showed that flying monsters that are allowed to roam will be incredibly powerful unless the right tactics are used. Lionheart left a lot of units vulnerable to the terrogheist, including his most powerful flying unit. Had he focused his ranged units on it, and hit it hard with spells it would've gone down, but as it was it took on individual, mostly ranged units and thus mauled them.

iamtherealraziel

The question is, how will chaos counter gyro squadrons. I doubt the hell cannon accuracy and wonder if having only spells to hit a flying unit that will pick on you freely till it runs out of ammo.

Einarial

i assume that if you kill everything else in the army bar one gyrocopter that's run out of ammo... it won't be a problem...

Drexxel22

Angmir said:

Mattzo said:

Flying units have to land at somepoint. Then you strike with anti-large.

In the meantime, ranged.

No it was shown time and again that they dont have to land if they dont want to. It is entirely possible to hover entire battle in the air.

They only land when they attack in mele.

Exploiting player can hoover with one mage on pegasus over entire army composed of mele only Chaos Warriors without ever landing once.

I wonder can you land your flying units without ordering them to attack.

In last video it would make sense to land this pegasus knight between Halbardiers to force Terrorgheist and bats to ground level.

Or have them land and walk to remain hidden behind a hill from artillery fire? I wouldn't want to be up in the air with 10 cannons firing at me...... Let me get to a good launching place and then spring upwards and attack.

michn

Well, I don't think we can read too much into that one battle. On top of all the advantages that will likely be common among large flyers, the Terrorgheist can regenerate. It looked like Darren really leveraged that to his advantage.

Lionheart's problem was that, after the loss of the Pegasus Knights, he didn't have any unit capable of pursuing the Terrorgheist. As a result, he had no way of taking advantage of the fairly significant, though temporary, damage being inflicted by his bowmen. I'd bet that Bretonnian melee heroes can all take flying mounts and skills that make them strong against monsters.

awesomeo1982

Plus he lost nearly all his archers but not cycling them off the wall in time. Then he forgot to use one archer unit for the entire game.

VincentNZ

Well, they are the VC counter for ranged units, because they do not have any way to deal with aarchers otherwise, especially in sieges where ranged units are even more powerful, since you can not really flank them there.

That said, I was quite impressed by the Terrorgheist and the black coach. They do seem to work fine. Maybe a bit on the strong side, but we do not know the upkeep cost yet. So I will not judge balance until I get my hands on the game.

Rifugio#8346

Einarial said:

i assume that if you kill everything else in the army bar one gyrocopter that's run out of ammo... it won't be a problem...

I think that's one of the main points here, in that ranged flying troops should eventually run out of ammo. Additionally if you just leave your flying troops hovering and don't engage then they won't be much help to the rest of your ground based army - and as they are crushed the morale of the flying troops will also suffer, perhaps even causing them to rout of the field without achieving anything. This would also be more likely if their is a fatigue impact for remaining in flight and if it also affects morale.

The main issue would be with no magic or ranged counters a flying wizard would be untouchable but the rest of the ground forces could still be taken apart. The question is if the wizard would be able to remain in the battle after all their other forces were destroyed/routed. That would lead to a very boring slow annihilation of all the non-flying troops - unless saved by some spectacular magic misfire.

Einarial

With the way a few battles have ended (cascade rout, which seems realistic. If everyone's running away, me too!) I suspect if you've killed absolutely everything that the one guy isn't going to hang around to find out if you're keen to do the same to him.

[email protected]

I agree with you all this is a very difficult situation. I feel the terrorgeist, Gyro copters, and other flying units should lose more fatigue while in the air. Its OP to have a unit that can heal its self fly around and jump into any battle causing terror and then leave and heal up. whats stopping the vampire counts from just using it and waiting in the back ground while the terrorgeist literally hits and leaves constantly. I would for sure be angry if I can't counter flying units.

Thanquol

[email protected] said:

I agree with you all this is a very difficult situation. I feel the terrorgeist, Gyro copters, and other flying units should lose more fatigue while in the air. Its OP to have a unit that can heal its self fly around and jump into any battle causing terror and then leave and heal up. whats stopping the vampire counts from just using it and waiting in the back ground while the terrorgeist literally hits and leaves constantly. I would for sure be angry if I can't counter flying units.

The Terrorgiest being a regenerating flyer makes it powerful but not unmanaged to deal with. Its unfair to call it OP just because its something players have not had to deal with in other TW titles as its the opposing player's responsibility to come up with effective strategies to deal with it. I'm sure once the game is released people will quickly learn how to cope with this particular nasty as I assure you a Terrorgiest is a pretty average monster compared to some of the other flying monsters we will see in later factions (The Bloodthirster and Necrosphinx come to mind)

Mitch_CA

Well the Terrorgiest is extremely expensive, so if your enemy has invested a huge chunk of his money into something he plans to keep away from the fight then you will likely have a large numerical advantage to exploit. If they're actively using the Terrorgiest, it has weaknesses just like any other unit.

And of course the Terrorgiest counts for little if you kill its lord...

Cyron

Mitch_CA said:

Well the Terrorgiest is extremely expensive, so if your enemy has invested a huge chunk of his money into something he plans to keep away from the fight then you will likely have a large numerical advantage to exploit. If they're actively using the Terrorgiest, it has weaknesses just like any other unit.

And of course the Terrorgiest counts for little if you kill its lord...

About that last part. What happens if I bring a Necromancer along, will his LoV mitigate some of the crumbling effect or is taking out a VC LL all that matters? Also if Mannfred is reinforced by Kemmler, will Mannfred's troops crumble anyway?

If just taking out the main LoV character is all it takes then VC will not be played in multiplayer a lot I think. Then again there are a couple of other factions. But would be nice if other LoV characters had an effect.