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Urgat's reasonable and not so reasonable suggestions - first post update as I go.

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  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    Yes, it seems I might be able to actually cross out quite a few of my points, surprisingly enough :)
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited July 2017
    Ooook, I'm not so full of myself I think I have any bearing in what CA does or does not do, but since there's quite a few points that seem to have made it to Game 2... Maybe it's a karma thing? :p

    16) Linear Campaign editor (we got the map eidtor, so why not push it?)
    What I mean by linear, is you do mission 1, mission 2, mission 3, etc till the last mission and victory and you're done, like the previous RTS (SotHR, Dark Omen, Mark of Chaos).
    In terms of "ingame" stuff itself, we already have almost everything needed. A briefing screen (albeit a barebones one), the possibility to have ingame cutscenes, face frames (for dialogues), scenarised missions that are precisely located on the map, restricted recruitment. There's not much missing, really, beyond the editor itself, [irony]which is obviously trivial to make anyway [/irony]. Placing the missions on the map, linking them, adding trigger events both in the campaign map and during missions, a few things here and there, a more "guided" recruitment system.
    With such an editor, we'd have the Steam library flooded with campaigns in a few days, mark my word.

    17) Landing for flyers (or how to beat a dead horse).
    Yeah, yeah, I know, balance. I don't care about that point, balance these units some other way. Flyers should be able to land for the many reasons that have been invoked in just as many topics already; but, more importantly, someone should be able to FORCE enemy units to land. Goblin netters (add them for Mork's sake!) that drag a griffon to the ground? Dragon knocked out of the sky by a well aimed cannonball? Swarm of bats pulled to striking distance by a grabing hand spell, like Thanquol did with the Spirit of Grungni in whatever Slayer book? Talking about Skavens: forcing all the flyers to land with a nasty "eatthatflyer" Storm banner? Let the landcrawlers pull the flyers to a more equitable ground (I'm very funny, I know).
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Landing isn't going to come, CA_Ato made that clear quite a while ago. It would also only serve to make fliers even more OP than they already are.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    There's quite a few thing they said that turned out different (like when they said custom maps couldn't be added to the main campaign). And they can, dunno, balance the units again with them being able to land in mind? I know, crazy idea, adjusting the balance :p
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited July 2017
    Except that the landing issue was made very early in development and flying is balanced by not being able to land at will. It's like asking skirmishers and artilley to not cause friendly fire.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited July 2017

    Except that the landing issue was made very early in development and flying is balanced by not being able to land at will. It's like asking skirmishers and artilley to not cause friendly fire.

    So you're just saying the same thing again? I could also repeat myself by saying -again- they can just adjust the balance (something they do with every patch, you know), but since it's kindda like talking to a wall, I'll stop there.
    And I don't even see the relevance, concerning the skirmishers and the artillery.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Urgat said:

    Except that the landing issue was made very early in development and flying is balanced by not being able to land at will. It's like asking skirmishers and artilley to not cause friendly fire.

    So you're just saying the same thing again? I could also repeat myself by saying -again- they can just adjust the balance (something they do with every patch, you know), but since it's kindda like talking to a wall, I'll stop there.
    And I don't even see the relevance, concerning the skuimrishers and the artillery.
    I don't have to say anything else since you're not actually saying how they should balance fliers that can land.

    So, ball's in your park., buddy.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited July 2017
    No, there's no ball for me to send back. I'm talking about landing, I'm not talking about balance. What are they going to do with dragons that will now get breathing attacks? They'll get more powerful, that's obviously going to change the balance. You do see the inconsistence, right? You can't say "'we won't add landing because it'd change the balance", and then "we'll add breathing attacks and to heck with balance", and expect to be taken seriously in that regard anymore.
    In short: one of my points earlier was "add breathing attacks to dragons". They have it now.
    my new point is "add landing". However they do it I don't care, it's the same deal to me.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    18) the damned new mod manager. Haven't played for a few weeks, I start the game - of course it crashes.
    And now I find myself having to check uncheck recheck restart reload, re re rereRERERE Oh my god this §^¨^$!!! mod manager I hate it I hate it CHANGE IT for the love of Gork, Mork, Slaanesh, Sigmar, the Old Ones, I don't care who but burn the current one with purple flames and make a new, better one where you don't see 3 mods at a time, where you can quickly find the out of date mods, where you can change load order, where you can actually do something beyond cursing it. Please, on my crying soul, please!
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    If flyers could land you would be able to still bring flyers against the factions with the best goon squads and not instantly lose them. You might be able to use your flyers to trick enemy flyers into landing in a unit if spears or halbards.
    Urgat said:

    18) the damned new mod manager. Haven't played for a few weeks, I start the game - of course it crashes.
    And now I find myself having to check uncheck recheck restart reload, re re rereRERERE Oh my god this §^¨^$!!! mod manager I hate it I hate it CHANGE IT for the love of Gork, Mork, Slaanesh, Sigmar, the Old Ones, I don't care who but burn the current one with purple flames and make a new, better one where you don't see 3 mods at a time, where you can quickly find the out of date mods, where you can change load order, where you can actually do something beyond cursing it. Please, on my crying soul, please!

    Quite some strong language there but you're not wrong.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    Of course I'm not wrong :p
    Ah yeah, forgot that one:

    19) Right click on skills to autouse on cooldown.
    Like in so many other games, you know. I don't want to micromanage skills during a battle, I want to direct my army. Yesterday I lost a battle because I was so focused on bombing with the gyrocopters I completely forgot about the rest. Why aren't the bombs just a targeted skill anyway? I get why it's fun, but this kind of gameplay isn't fit for a game where you managed dozens of units at the same time and certainly have other things to do than try and ligne up flightpaths and time bomb falls.

    20) Oh and in the same vein, fanatics should be autoreleased when in range, like in the TT. It seems fanatics are difficult to get right apparently, they were just as bad in Mark of Chaos. In SotHR and DO, I seem to remember them being fine, mostly doing nothing, but when they hit you, made you go into shock.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Urgat said:

    Of course I'm not wrong :p
    Ah yeah, forgot that one:

    19) Right click on skills to autouse on cooldown.
    Like in so many other games, you know. I don't want to micromanage skills during a battle, I want to direct my army. Yesterday I lost a battle because I was so focused on bombing with the gyrocopters I completely forgot about the rest. Why aren't the bombs just a targeted skill anyway? I get why it's fun, but this kind of gameplay isn't fit for a game where you managed dozens of units at the same time and certainly have other things to do than try and ligne up flightpaths and time bomb falls.

    20) Oh and in the same vein, fanatics should be autoreleased when in range, like in the TT. It seems fanatics are difficult to get right apparently, they were just as bad in Mark of Chaos. In SotHR and DO, I seem to remember them being fine, mostly doing nothing, but when they hit you, made you go into shock.

    Fanatic used to auto spin at the enemy but people got annoyed with that. CA changed it to an ability so it wasn't useless anymore.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited August 2017
    I know it was changed, but did people really complain about it? I honestly can't remember. Still, it's even more pointless micromanagement. I mean, they're even on cooldown, so it's not like you're wasting them or anything.
    There's so many useless things that should run themselves w/o the player's mandatory click, but don't, that I've downloaded a mod that lets the AI control the units, so I can ignore the wizards and so on and focus on the troops.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Urgat said:

    I know it was changed, but did people really complain about it? I honestly can't remember. Still, it's even more pointless micromanagement. I mean, they're even on cooldown, so it's not like you're wasting them or anything.
    There's so many useless things that should run themselves w/o the player's mandatory click, but don't, that I've downloaded a mod that lets the AI control the units, so I can ignore the wizards and so on and focus on the troops.

    I definitely remember people complaining about auto-fanatics. It was a useless little quirk of those goblin units because they always shoot too soon or missed the enemy completely. If you want them to go back to their original state then you might as well just remove them completely for all the good it'll do.

    As to micromanagement in general, I see suggestions for less micromanagement as suggestions for dumbing down the game. So much has been stripped bare of any meaningful content that removing what little complexity there is left would be further insult to my intelligence and to that of the entire community. Dumbing down the game will not make it more fun. It will make it boring.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    If fanatics used to automatically shoot then I'm glad it was changed, so we can actually aim it. Never found it very effective though, damage wise.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Fanatics used to be automatic and they used to go into random directions as well (including backwards, right into your other troops).

    That made fanatics not worth bringing, EVER. Stuff that works in the TT doesn't necessarily work in an RTS where you need to focus your attention a lot more.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited August 2017
    Combat Wombat: about autocast, my suggestion lets you still manage the spells if you want, no doubt you'll be more efficient at it than the AI, right? Making me drop the damn gyrocopter bombs isn't making the game better, that's for sure. That's pretty much like making it mandatory to shoot the artillery ourselves, and I'm not sure how do you see it being an hymn to your intelligence that you're asked to click on the button when the little circles overlap a bunch of troops, instead of dealing with it like you would a fireball, really.
    I dunno about dumbing down, I haven't played another TW game. I'm totally ok with more stuff to do, more mechanics to handle - but not dumb stuff like that. You could have your heroes autocast in Warcraft 3, it didn't dumb the game down in any way, because you had your hands full already regardless. Until I bought TW:W, I thought the TW games were about moving your units in a smart way, trying to flank, countercharge and so on, not circle-charging flyers and clicking on timed buttons while waiting for the big central blob to thin down. That's not how my own intelligence is tickled.

    That made fanatics not worth bringing, EVER. Stuff that works in the TT doesn't necessarily work in an RTS where you need to focus your attention a lot more.

    That's not very logical, you say you need your attention focused - in support of something becoming manual instead of automatic?
    It's not autosend that was the problem then, but how they behaved when they were sent, isnt it?
    Just make the automatic fanatics better. Have the initial push in the right direction go twice as far. I agree it doesn't have to be like in the TT, so have them go through the target for sure on launch, and then let them live their life. It's not like they'have that tiny possibility to wreck half a unit in onre turn the TT fanatics had up till 7th ed.
    Honestly, when you have a whole night goblin army (nobody does, they suck even with the "marvelous" manual fanatics), how many fanatics do you reckon you have to micromanage? To remind yourself you have to recast them again? And so on? Do you even bother at all?
    Pretty sure we already know the answer to all that.
  • MadmageMadmage Registered Users Posts: 76
    Urgat said:

    Ok, I'm finally done with one campaign (Empire) [edit: been quite a few campaigns since then :p], so I feel I can do the "suggestion" game w/o looking like an idiot for missing things that may be in already, but I missed. If I do, though, please forgive me. The game is really, really awesome, and I'm mostly pleased with it, but the devil being in the details, I think it could be improved to reach an even greater state. With that said, let's give it a go (edited as it goes):

    • 1) small towns.
    The map feels kindda empty. I'd like to see a lot of small settlements added to the map. They would work in conjunction with the closest big city (let's say we add Weissbruck, you have control if you control Altdorf). They appear on the map as a very small settlement, with a smaller font label, to avoid clutter. You can only build one building there (like a mine or whatever). Maybe even (unreasonable!) a battle map with a village to fight in, w/o the siege part. Village in the center, defender deploying in a circle encompassing said village, attacker deploying around.
    the pros:
    - it'd make the map less empty
    - it would make the economy more lively
    - it would add objectives to sack, raze, etc
    - it'd look cool to have a (chaos, orc, whatever) invasion leave a more impressive smoking trail of ruin and destruction on the map.
    - It'd prevent the AI or even you from just zipping through the map w/o a care in the world.
    - The cons: it'll probably slow down the game a lot, making it take many more turns to "win" (that's not a con for me, but it'd probably is for many people)
    - dunno, tell me.
    I do think there is room to add a few settlements in the Empire. The Wasteland, Stirland and Talabacland seem awfully empty in particular. A northern port settlement in the Wasteland, with the new Norscan update, would add another prize to fight for.

    I think the Moot should be its own province (albeit still a minor settlement) and add the settlement managed by a knightly order in eastern Stirland (the name escapes me at the moment) near the Western Sylvania border. It would certainly add some more conflict in the area.
    Urgat said:


    • 2) characters join units.
    I've seen it suggested before, but whatever. Just make it work like units using siege engines. You click the button, click a unit instead of a siege engine, hero goes in the middle of the front rank of said unit. Add restrictions as necessary (mounted heroes can only join cavalry units, etc).
    I explain why a couple posts later, for those who'd wonder "what's the point?".
    Edit: there's actually that exact mechanic in Dawn of War. That's 13 years ago...
    I recall it was also part of the King Arthur War/roleplaying game which at the time was a fantasy inspired "clone" of Total War: Shogun. You would have to assign the lord/hero on the army menu screen and couldn't change it in battle.

  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    Couple new points, UI-focused, after a couple epic... pfff, dunno how to call that? pathfinding woes? You know, like, you click somewhere, and somehow the AI decides to make your unit walk the whole way around the area you thought it would go through. Campaign map, I mean.

    21) reserve action points.
    Like in X-Com, the original game. Add a few icons along the action bar, to reserve the points for stances. Like, you click on the entranchment reserve button, then move wherever, your army will stop when it has expended all the available points, it won't move further away since the rest of the bar is alloted to the entranchment stance. I'm not sure if I'm being very clear...

    22) multiple army selection on campaign map.
    Coz why not? It's not exactly thrilling to move stacks one at a time when they go to the same place, and this might avoid some epic fails when you try to gang up on an enemy army and, for some reason, the last stack, the one supposed to attack, decides to go the whole way around, ends up out of range of course, and you're good to reload your save. Apparently the AI never messes up that way, so...

    Also, while I'm at it:

    23) a button to always show enemy armies/heroes on the map
    Because that would be quite handy, no?

    24) Indicator for what is available where
    On the diplomacy map, a menu that allows us to show/hide the buildings in a province (with a number on the icon to show how many of said building there is), or the units available for hire in a province, or, even better, both. It's kind of hellish to keep track of where you can buy what troops after a while.

    -now maybe point 23 and 24 are already in, or something equivalent, but I didn't find them. If they are, kinddly point me to it and I'll be in your debt :p
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    Also, I changed my views on point 14 (permadeath).
    After thinking about it for a while, and reading some comments on the forums, it's obvious that after a number of turns, there would just be no LL left, and that would be kindda sad, playing in the Warhammer world, w/o any of the known characters. Besides... there's no point in wishing for something when CA is clearly going the opposite way ("no permadeath" skill added to regular lords in the second game... I wish they didn't cross that line... ah well). So I'm crossing that one out.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    25) Lore-friendly global map
    I don't like (heh, being diplomatic here) the ME map. Leave this one for those who are happy with it, and for the others, make a lore friendly map. Keep the size, lower the scale. It'll please the fans because it'll be the right, uncut map. It'll also make the lands smaller, so less crossing continents back and forth. As they're smaller, they'll also be closer (paradoxakky maybe, but still), so you won't be stuck fighting the same factions for 50 turns.
    I know it'll never happen, but I'll wishlist that anyway, because that ME map, I just hate it (yeah, well, diplomacy only goes so far. At least I'm keeping it civil). It's not the Warhammer World, it doesn't look remotely like it, it's a random map made up by CA, with Ulthuan somehow ending in the middle of it. W/o Ulthuan, someone who'd know the actual Warhammer map, who would see the ME map w/o knowing it's from this game, would have no idea what it's supposed to be.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Urgat said:

    25) Lore-friendly global map
    I don't like (heh, being diplomatic here) the ME map. Leave this one for those who are happy with it, and for the others, make a lore friendly map. Keep the size, lower the scale. It'll please the fans because it'll be the right, uncut map. It'll also make the lands smaller, so less crossing continents back and forth. As they're smaller, they'll also be closer (paradoxakky maybe, but still), so you won't be stuck fighting the same factions for 50 turns.
    I know it'll never happen, but I'll wishlist that anyway, because that ME map, I just hate it (yeah, well, diplomacy only goes so far. At least I'm keeping it civil). It's not the Warhammer World, it doesn't look remotely like it, it's a random map made up by CA, with Ulthuan somehow ending in the middle of it. W/o Ulthuan, someone who'd know the actual Warhammer map, who would see the ME map w/o knowing it's from this game, would have no idea what it's supposed to be.

    ME is actually pretty lore friendly if you compare it to GW's own "places of interest" maps in the old sourcebooks which also mostly ignored the southern parts of Lustria and the Southlands.
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    What are you talking about? Little differences aside, the map of the world in general is quite fixed, and the Old World in particular has been pretty much set in stone since 4th ed. You can't even recognize the Old World with CA's map, so I dunno what's up with those places of interest of yours, but, herr... no (and seriously you can't just criticize GW for focusing on parts of the world with a straight face just when CA cut away over half of the vortex map for what was supposed to be a combined map of the world, but whatever).
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    Game 3 map wish
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