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The "Data-mined" DLC Faction List Analysed

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  • Pinkerton00Pinkerton00 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 471

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,931

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    1. I don't view the current map as End Times at all, it is far more representative of the Storm of Chaos campaign (which for the Grand Campaign is completely logical).
    2. The current assumption is that there will be two "unlocks" or more of the map, that will release the "New World" (Dark/High Elves, DoC, Lizardmen) "Mountains of Mourn" (Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres) and "Nehekara" (Tomb Kings"). Those areas can easily expand the more over one expansion (New World) or more DLC, there is little reason to add a Chaos realms.

    Chaos Realms would really only work as a mini-campaign, and it would be constrained as Chaos only factions, which would make it even more boring than Eye for an Eye was. Now I do want differentiated Chaos factions, but I'm perfectly fine having them roam around the map without more area tacked on.
  • Pinkerton00Pinkerton00 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 471
    mw51630 said:

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    1. I don't view the current map as End Times at all, it is far more representative of the Storm of Chaos campaign (which for the Grand Campaign is completely logical).
    2. The current assumption is that there will be two "unlocks" or more of the map, that will release the "New World" (Dark/High Elves, DoC, Lizardmen) "Mountains of Mourn" (Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres) and "Nehekara" (Tomb Kings"). Those areas can easily expand the more over one expansion (New World) or more DLC, there is little reason to add a Chaos realms.

    Chaos Realms would really only work as a mini-campaign, and it would be constrained as Chaos only factions, which would make it even more boring than Eye for an Eye was. Now I do want differentiated Chaos factions, but I'm perfectly fine having them roam around the map without more area tacked on.
    Ok, then answer me this...where is the third expansion going to take place? You know, the one that has only chaos factions playable? The one that won't be in the old world because we already have a campaign with a chaos invasion there and won't be in the new world because we already have a campaign there, too?
    HoneyBun said:

    Then for Game 3, no new map but full Chaos invading whatever map you have. If you buy everything then they invade Game map 1+2+DLC. If You just bought Game 1 they invade Game 1 map only? If you just bought Game 2 then they invade Game Map 2 only?

    Or do you reckon Game 3 ships with the same basic map, presumably Game Map 1 and you can expand that if you own the DLC and game 2 OR if you own Game 1 you can play the races?

    Would that make Empire, VC, Dwarf and Orcs non-playable but on the map for someone who just buys game 3?

    Very interesting idea ....

    No, that's not an interesting idea! That would make everyone in this community furious! CA isn't stupid. They know the backlash they would get if they released a standalone that used the same map, assets, and factions of a previous title only with the previously playable factions now non-playable and some new, superfluous factions added to play...I mean seriously, what would even be the point? There is already a chaos invasion happening in the game 1 campaign! A HUGE one! With Archaon and a freaking greater daemon of Tzeentch! There is no room for 4 chaos factions!
    They wouldn't do that and this community would be super **** if they did. Game 3 will be a standalone campaign with its own, separate campaign map in a different region from the first two campaigns. Just like game 2 will be. I guarantee it.
  • gatormarinediazgatormarinediaz Member Registered Users Posts: 416

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
  • Pinkerton00Pinkerton00 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 471
    edited August 2016

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
    But it doesn't leave it open to your interpretation. Your interpretation was that the first two would connect to make the biggest map in TW history but the third could take place in the same geographical area as one of the others but at a different time period, making it impossible to connect with the other two into a single campaign...If that were the case, he wouldn't have said what he did...

    Ultimately, we have to either call Andy a liar or accept that all three of the standalone campaigns will be mutually and simultaneously compatible, which requires that there be no geographical overlap.
  • gatormarinediazgatormarinediaz Member Registered Users Posts: 416

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
    But it doesn't leave it open to your interpretation. Your interpretation was that the first two would connect to make the biggest map in TW history but the third could take place in the same geographical area as one of the others but at a different time period, making it impossible to connect with the other two into a single campaign...If that were the case, he wouldn't have said what he did...
    Once more, in bold so you can maybe understand what my actual argument is:

    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    In other words, this is not "my" interpretation.

    I said the text of the quote does not eliminate the interpretation that games 1 and 2 will have separate maps and the third game will combine the previous two.
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    why CA and/or GW just cant expand the map.
    Me thought Chaos demons and the gods are living in the north in the chaos wastes.


  • lightgeminilightgemini Registered Users Posts: 37
    Merarches said:

    why CA and/or GW just cant expand the map.
    Me thought Chaos demons and the gods are living in the north in the chaos wastes.


    Gods dont live there. Demons can enter the the normal world there because the place is saturated with warp. There should be a mayor frackfest of demons and chaos champions battling each other there. Stuff for a minicampaign since no other race could survive that far north.
  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,931

    mw51630 said:

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    1. I don't view the current map as End Times at all, it is far more representative of the Storm of Chaos campaign (which for the Grand Campaign is completely logical).
    2. The current assumption is that there will be two "unlocks" or more of the map, that will release the "New World" (Dark/High Elves, DoC, Lizardmen) "Mountains of Mourn" (Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres) and "Nehekara" (Tomb Kings"). Those areas can easily expand the more over one expansion (New World) or more DLC, there is little reason to add a Chaos realms.

    Chaos Realms would really only work as a mini-campaign, and it would be constrained as Chaos only factions, which would make it even more boring than Eye for an Eye was. Now I do want differentiated Chaos factions, but I'm perfectly fine having them roam around the map without more area tacked on.
    Ok, then answer me this...where is the third expansion going to take place? You know, the one that has only chaos factions playable? The one that won't be in the old world because we already have a campaign with a chaos invasion there and won't be in the new world because we already have a campaign there, too?
    HoneyBun said:

    Then for Game 3, no new map but full Chaos invading whatever map you have. If you buy everything then they invade Game map 1+2+DLC. If You just bought Game 1 they invade Game 1 map only? If you just bought Game 2 then they invade Game Map 2 only?

    Or do you reckon Game 3 ships with the same basic map, presumably Game Map 1 and you can expand that if you own the DLC and game 2 OR if you own Game 1 you can play the races?

    Would that make Empire, VC, Dwarf and Orcs non-playable but on the map for someone who just buys game 3?

    Very interesting idea ....

    No, that's not an interesting idea! That would make everyone in this community furious! CA isn't stupid. They know the backlash they would get if they released a standalone that used the same map, assets, and factions of a previous title only with the previously playable factions now non-playable and some new, superfluous factions added to play...I mean seriously, what would even be the point? There is already a chaos invasion happening in the game 1 campaign! A HUGE one! With Archaon and a freaking greater daemon of Tzeentch! There is no room for 4 chaos factions!
    They wouldn't do that and this community would be super **** if they did. Game 3 will be a standalone campaign with its own, separate campaign map in a different region from the first two campaigns. Just like game 2 will be. I guarantee it.
    I already said this in an earlier post, but I don't think you read/understood it.

    After all the expansions before final Chaos one is released, I believe the full map should exist, with Old World/New World/Nehekhara/Mourn.

    The final Chaos expansion would add a new End Times campaign, which overlaps that large map but changes each faction significantly. You can also play as each Chaos faction individually, each of whom starts in a different area and has different goals. Khorne takes on the Dark Elves, Nurgle heads for Reikland, ect.

    This doesn't change the original campaign, it is a NEW campaign, with roughly the same map but the factions in it are different (VC maybe led by Nagash instead of Mannfred, Isabella/Vlad show up, etc.)

    There is a precedent for this in Total War games, as Rome II "Augustus" campaign uses essentially the same map as the Grand Campaign but the borders are different. But in that campaign, Roman factions dominate the world.

    This to me would also be a lot more fun than some "Chaos-only" campaign in the Realm of Chaos. It would add more units, LLs, diversity, quests and be a nice conclusion. And you could avert the End Times if playing as a non-Chaos faction.

    P.S. current Grand Campaign is not End Times, it is Storm of Chaos (VERY DIFFERENT)
  • MhorbidMhorbid Registered Users Posts: 139
    edited August 2016
    mw51630 said:

    P.S. current Grand Campaign is not End Times, it is Storm of Chaos (VERY DIFFERENT)

    Actually, the End Times starts with the Storm of Chaos (at 2521 IC).
    Storm of Chaos is simply the first assault wave of the chaos armies that was blocked at middenheim a year later.

    Archeon (and friends) came back with the full might of chaos at 2523-2525 IC to finish the job.

    It makes perfect sense that chaos spawns two waves during the campaign, the first one being the Storm of Chaos, and the second one being the Dark Tide that finished the world off.
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    every game of the triology is playable as a standalone game.
    when u jsut buy the second expansion u just can play the demon wars i think.
    im sure, when u connect games u will get a new campaign too.
    as example.
    game 1 + 2 need to bring in that HE can kill dwarfs and get their crown back. :)
    and so on
  • Pinkerton00Pinkerton00 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 471

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
    But it doesn't leave it open to your interpretation. Your interpretation was that the first two would connect to make the biggest map in TW history but the third could take place in the same geographical area as one of the others but at a different time period, making it impossible to connect with the other two into a single campaign...If that were the case, he wouldn't have said what he did...
    Once more, in bold so you can maybe understand what my actual argument is:

    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    In other words, this is not "my" interpretation.

    I said the text of the quote does not eliminate the interpretation that games 1 and 2 will have separate maps and the third game will combine the previous two.
    I know what you're saying. And what I'm saying is that it doesn't leave it open to that interpretation. He said "if you have all three they will combine...". The rules of the English language imply that each of the three will be a distinct part of a potential whole.
  • gatormarinediazgatormarinediaz Member Registered Users Posts: 416
    edited August 2016

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
    But it doesn't leave it open to your interpretation. Your interpretation was that the first two would connect to make the biggest map in TW history but the third could take place in the same geographical area as one of the others but at a different time period, making it impossible to connect with the other two into a single campaign...If that were the case, he wouldn't have said what he did...
    Once more, in bold so you can maybe understand what my actual argument is:

    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    In other words, this is not "my" interpretation.

    I said the text of the quote does not eliminate the interpretation that games 1 and 2 will have separate maps and the third game will combine the previous two.
    I know what you're saying. And what I'm saying is that it doesn't leave it open to that interpretation. He said "if you have all three they will combine...". The rules of the English language imply that each of the three will be a distinct part of a potential whole.
    I'm not sure why you're so stuck on the point that it's impossible to interpret it that way.

    "If you have all three..."

    If you have part one, part two and part 3 ...

    "... they will combine..."

    ... then they will combine into one map.

    In this instance "they" is not a very specific term. "They" could mean parts 1 and 2, parts 1 and 3, or it could mean all three. Even if it means all three, "they" does not preclude the possibility that parts 1 and 2 are unique maps and part 3 has a separate scenario that takes place in one or more of the geographic regions of the other two. In other words, the word "they" leaves much of this quote open to interpretation because it is decidedly unspecific. When one uses an unspecific word, the reader must interpret what the writer intended by that word.

    If you still insist that it's impossible to interpret that as meaning that one will need all three parts in order to combine them, then you're just being obstinate. Language doesn't work like you seem to think it does. There is room to interpret almost any method of communication, including spoken and written language. It is possible for someone to read that phrase and come up with that interpretation because the quote is rather open-ended. You seem to think there are correct and incorrect ways to interpret that sentence based on "rules of the English language", but language simply does not work that way, otherwise we wouldn't still be seeing debates about the meanings of poems, historical and literary quotes, and metaphors.

    Clearly it is possible to interpret it that way because some people have. I agree that it's more likely that what was meant was that each part is an individual map and they all combine into one, but I'm not so stubborn that I can't see how someone could read that sentence differently than I do.

    There's no need to discuss this topic any further. My argument is that it is within the realm of possibilities that the quote can be interpreted differently than what the community at large generally believes it to mean. Your argument is that it is just wrong to do so. The end. This is so utterly pointless because I don't even interpret it differently than you do.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,590
    Lets be careful interpreting other member posts when commenting or responding.....
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • KarradeKarrade Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 70
    edited August 2016
    There is a lot of wordplay going on here.

    If someone says all 3 are going to connect together, then all 3 are going to connect together.

    Its really flimsy to start suggesting you'll need 3 to connect 2 and 1 together. If that were the case they would have said that in the statement, to not do so is going to raise expectations in connecting 2 and 1 then drop them. Not to mention why bother saying anything if that were the case, people will buy 2 expecting it to join to 1 and then not have that feature and be disappointed. - The entire premise is illogical.
  • Pinkerton00Pinkerton00 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 471

    mw51630 said:


    I agree, I think Chaos as 4 gods can be an expansion without adding more map. A good example of this is Rome II's "Augustus" campaign, which reforms the Grand Campaign slightly but is essentially the same.

    So here is my prediction; the final campaign is an End Times campaign.
    It will have a far greater narrative installed in it, for instance for VC your goal isn't take over everything, but rather to do specific stuff to bring back Nagash. In fact, you can't defeat Chaos unless you meet these goals (they just keep spawning).
    Chaos isn't necessarily stronger than it was before (I'm just tidying up Greenskin campaign on Very Hard, and Chaos killed every faction save me, Tilea and Karak Izor). But they are divided.
    As in, Khorne is its own faction (led by say Valkia). Nurgle led by the Glottkin, Slaanesh/Tzeentch I don't care. And they all do different things, as Nurgle heads straight for Reikland, Valkia heads for Naggaroth, and Tzeentch screws with the Vampires and Slaanesh does something in Kislev.

    I could add more details but its all speculation, and IMO far more likely than a Realm of Chaos addition (which lets be honest, would be lame)..

    That was another idea that I had, but the problems are twofold:

    1: the current game already kind of IS the end times...otherwise, Archaon wouldn't be there. So it would have to be a sort of post-end times campaign after everything's been wiped out by chaos.
    2: Apparently they plan to make all three of the standalone games combine into one giant grand campaign map. This would suggest that each of the three will take place concurrently in different geographical regions. So, the necessary concurrency rules out a campaign in a different time period but the same region.

    The question is...what geographical region could be the setting for a campaign with 4 different Chaos Daemon factions that isn't already spoken for? Answer: None. What does that leave? Well, if they want to do a large-scale grand campaign with 4 different chaos factions that doesn't step all over the toes of the other two campaigns, the only option seems to be the Chaos Realms.
    The quote referenced earlier makes it possible that what they meant was that game 1 has its own map, expansion 1 has its own map, and expansion 2 combines it all together. If that's what they meant, then an end times campaign as part of the Chaos expansions can't necessarily be ruled out.
    What Andy said was "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history". The only sensible way to interpret that is that each of the three campaign maps will be a part of a whole. Not sure how you got what you did out of it.
    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    This is how you get there:

    "If you've got all three they will connect together to make the largest campaign map in total war history"

    In other words, having all three is the key. If one has part 1, 2, and 3, all of them will connect into one.

    The more common interpretation is that parts 1, 2, and 3 will be able to connect and disregards the specificity of the phrase "If you've got all three". Personally, I think this is more likely. It doesn't strike me as all that likely that he literally meant that all three would be necessary in order to connect them, but it is possible that it is what he meant.
    But it doesn't leave it open to your interpretation. Your interpretation was that the first two would connect to make the biggest map in TW history but the third could take place in the same geographical area as one of the others but at a different time period, making it impossible to connect with the other two into a single campaign...If that were the case, he wouldn't have said what he did...
    Once more, in bold so you can maybe understand what my actual argument is:

    1st, I'm not saying that I think that's what will be the case. What I'm saying is that the wording leaves that interpretation open.

    In other words, this is not "my" interpretation.

    I said the text of the quote does not eliminate the interpretation that games 1 and 2 will have separate maps and the third game will combine the previous two.
    I know what you're saying. And what I'm saying is that it doesn't leave it open to that interpretation. He said "if you have all three they will combine...". The rules of the English language imply that each of the three will be a distinct part of a potential whole.
    I'm not sure why you're so stuck on the point that it's impossible to interpret it that way.

    "If you have all three..."

    If you have part one, part two and part 3 ...

    "... they will combine..."

    ... then they will combine into one map.

    In this instance "they" is not a very specific term. "They" could mean parts 1 and 2, parts 1 and 3, or it could mean all three. Even if it means all three, "they" does not preclude the possibility that parts 1 and 2 are unique maps and part 3 has a separate scenario that takes place in one or more of the geographic regions of the other two. In other words, the word "they" leaves much of this quote open to interpretation because it is decidedly unspecific. When one uses an unspecific word, the reader must interpret what the writer intended by that word.

    If you still insist that it's impossible to interpret that as meaning that one will need all three parts in order to combine them, then you're just being obstinate. Language doesn't work like you seem to think it does. There is room to interpret almost any method of communication, including spoken and written language. It is possible for someone to read that phrase and come up with that interpretation because the quote is rather open-ended. You seem to think there are correct and incorrect ways to interpret that sentence based on "rules of the English language", but language simply does not work that way, otherwise we wouldn't still be seeing debates about the meanings of poems, historical and literary quotes, and metaphors.

    Clearly it is possible to interpret it that way because some people have. I agree that it's more likely that what was meant was that each part is an individual map and they all combine into one, but I'm not so stubborn that I can't see how someone could read that sentence differently than I do.

    There's no need to discuss this topic any further. My argument is that it is within the realm of possibilities that the quote can be interpreted differently than what the community at large generally believes it to mean. Your argument is that it is just wrong to do so. The end. This is so utterly pointless because I don't even interpret it differently than you do.
    When you use the word "they" immediately following a reference to all three, then the word "they" refers to all three at once. That's how English works. So, unless your point is that you don't think that Andy knows how to speak English, then you should probably just stop.
  • Mojo_AmokMojo_Amok Registered Users Posts: 210
    Haven't really followed the discussion of late, but it seems pretty obvious to me that what's going to happen is that the first expansion pack and DLC fills out the blank areas that already exist on the campaign map.

    You can already see things like the Sour Sea and the Straights of Nagash on the map if you zoom in.

    Of course nobody really knows how the Chaos Expansion would work, but the rest of it looks pretty clear.
  • Mohawk_RoshiMohawk_Roshi Registered Users Posts: 1,766
    This conversation has really become dead ended arguing wording.... Really? We're talking about CA not the Riddler. All three games will fit together in the end. They will most likely include the old worlde the Southlands the Darklands the Mountains of Mourne Ulthuan Naggaroth and Lustria. That's a huge map and it covers everything significant to 8th edition. Doesn't matter how it gets there or what comes when. This whole conversation is based on things that are either subject to change or in CAs own words outdated and expanded upon in scope. Let's see when they announce part 2 then we can attempt at what part 3 will contain.
    A WIZARD SHOULD KNOW BETTER!
  • RumbleDumbleRumbleDumble Registered Users Posts: 45
    It's not hard to understand that the worlds will connect.. It was done in Empire Total War.
  • Powerchoke1Powerchoke1 Registered Users Posts: 37
    Dlc 6 Legendary Lord Pack Dwarfs vs Greenskins. Probably
  • Mohawk_RoshiMohawk_Roshi Registered Users Posts: 1,766
    Yeah of course it is
    A WIZARD SHOULD KNOW BETTER!
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 944
    edited September 2016
    I think a whole campagin based around the endless wars in the Chaos wastes would be pretty cool, especially if they expanded on the Lore and fleshed out all the different tribes etc.

    I'd really like to see some of the really crazy stuff from the Lore or at least for it to be touched on.

    I remember reading in the old books about crazy evil chaos forests, demonic fortresses, despots ruling over armies of mutilated slaves, great swathes of tundra ruled by horse tribes, places near the pole where reality literally tears apart and physics doesn't function anymore.

    I've love CA to have a crack at the raw madness of chaos as a background/environment with some really....messsed up subfactions kicking around, if they do expand the Chaos wastes.

    It shouldn't just be the standard tabletop demon types in snow, it should be a whole land more or less made of horror and madness.

    The biggest problem for me with Chaos as a faction has always been that it all has to be standardised to make troop types etc whereas in the background its endlessly diverse.
    Post edited by Mercii on
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  • Horus38Horus38 Registered Users Posts: 935
    The more I think about it the more I can get behind them expanding the chaos wastes, especially as another link/bridge between map 1 and map 2.
  • Mohawk_RoshiMohawk_Roshi Registered Users Posts: 1,766
    Horus38 said:

    The more I think about it the more I can get behind them expanding the chaos wastes, especially as another link/bridge between map 1 and map 2.

    The chaos wastes are one thing. The chaos realms are another. Only one army can survive there yet alone even enter it. And I still say a whole expansion based on chaos and nothing else would be a waste. Chaos is my favorite faction to play with but they aren't interesting or diverse enough for a whole game. A Mini campaign yes but an expansion no.
    A WIZARD SHOULD KNOW BETTER!
  • Horus38Horus38 Registered Users Posts: 935

    The chaos wastes are one thing. The chaos realms are another. Only one army can survive there yet alone even enter it. And I still say a whole expansion based on chaos and nothing else would be a waste. Chaos is my favorite faction to play with but they aren't interesting or diverse enough for a whole game. A Mini campaign yes but an expansion no.

    Agreed. I was more observing about what would actually be in game 3 if it was a standalone game because there isn't much left unless they do something with the North.
  • SephirexSephirex Right outside your windowRegistered Users Posts: 1,028
    edited September 2016
    Game 3 will probably add overhauled Chaos factions to the main campaign, with a slight expansion of wastes territory for them to conquer. If you look at the leaked map, there's quite a bit of Chaos wastes on there to be uncovered as well.

    Chaos campaign would probably be one of the 4 chaos gods trying to utilize his demons to unite the tribes to forge an Undivided Chaos Faction before heading south. Or it may play out like "Chaos in the Old World" with the 4 factions all striking south on their own while continually fighting the others.
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,330
    The key ord is "if" as opposed to "only if/when". I dont think it matters though, as I doubt it will happen that way.

    Also, I dont think 3. game will be a seperate End Times Campaign.

  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,374
    Sephirex said:

    Game 3 will probably add overhauled Chaos factions to the main campaign, with a slight expansion of wastes territory for them to conquer. If you look at the leaked map, there's quite a bit of Chaos wastes on there to be uncovered as well.

    Chaos campaign would probably be one of the 4 chaos gods trying to utilize his demons to unite the tribes to forge an Undivided Chaos Faction before heading south. Or it may play out like "Chaos in the Old World" with the 4 factions all striking south on their own while continually fighting the others.

    If they do it like that, then it could actually make the campaign really fun for the Chaos factions. United Chaos is fine for a bit, but most of the time Chaos should be fighting each other in the Wastes. It's what they do. ;)
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,930
    edited September 2016
    In 3rd expansion, Who will be their LL?

    Only those 4 gods themselves?

    In Game 1 & 2, there would be several LL each race but in this game only 1 per faction.

    Hoping CA still improves WoC. I want to see Slaughterbrute, Chimera, etc in their roster....
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • JotunheimJotunheim Registered Users Posts: 71
    first of all great post



    The Race Packs!

    The Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms will likely all require the map to be expanded. This meshes well with the leaked map from the game that seemed to show what the entire map will look like at the end of the trilogy. It's possible that we may not see Araby at all, given that it's missing, but I think it's more likely that DLC this far out was not planned out solidly enough to list all of the minor factions they may or may not include.

    In the case of map extensions, I could see CA releasing the map extensions as FLC with limited versions of the new races' rosters as AI opponents, but it's just as likely that they'll be part of the paid DLC as well.

    wh_dlc08_tmb_tomb_kings
    wh_dlc10_ska_skaven
    wh_dlc13_chd_chaos_dwarfs
    wh_dlc15_ogr_ogre_kingdoms

    I really want to know if those dlc will be for the first game or for the others ( skaven could be for the 2nd but the others??)

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