Dogs of war mercenary DLC

ricijs2002

I was dissapointed that you could not have mercs in warhammer TW as in previous TW games so maibe they will make dogs of war DLC so we could have lets say option to hire some unique units especially ranged and aritlery units for factions that dont have them like vampire counts who dont have even basic skeleton archers so maibe here they can hire some ranged mercs and empire who doesnt have monster or giant units can hire ogres , so thoughts ?

Aragorn1ring

Wouldnt it be odd if my undead army was marching with some mercs?

Mohawk_Roshi

I think that the general consensus on Dogs of War (at least for those who care) is that we'd rather see the Dogs of War nations get actual rosters opposed to adding a Merc system. The way that the Vampire Counts operate really means that adding mercenaries now would make them significantly less special to play as mechanically. Though I could be wrong and everyone else really wants mercenaries back.

TheShiroOfDalton

Unless CA acquired the license for the edition these appeared in (they don't in 8th), there's little chance for them to show up.

Bsham

there is a new mod for that. It's called Dogs of War Mercenary Recruits. Check it out here:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=720182508&searchtext=

Petromir

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Unless CA acquired the license for the edition these appeared in (they don't in 8th), there's little chance for them to show up.

As far as I can tell while they are basing the game around 8th edition (which includes armies that use army books from earlier editions that are still legal in 8th) their License is for the Warhammer Fantasy Battles IP. The restrictive Mod rules for example specify that Age of Sigmar as as separate IP is not permitted but makes no edition specifications.

From the content guidelines;

Please only include Warhammer Fantasy Battles content in your mods – other Games Workshop IP like Age of Sigmar or Warhammer 40,000 is separate and is often licensed to other companies, or used in other games.

This suggests that WFB as a whole is fair game for CA, they have just chosen the most recent edition (as AoS is not WFB) so Dog of War are fine.

Alanthemoderate

Aragorn1ring said:

Wouldnt it be odd if my undead army was marching with some mercs?

Speaking from Lore, not really, remember that the Vampire Counts see themselves as normal counts, they wouldn't mind using mercs at all.

TheBraveKnight

Alanthemoderate said:

Aragorn1ring said:

Wouldnt it be odd if my undead army was marching with some mercs?

Speaking from Lore, not really, remember that the Vampire Counts see themselves as normal counts, they wouldn't mind using mercs at all.

This and Lahima(?) was ruled by a vampire queen that had undead and Human soldiers. I also believe Tilea uses Dwarves and Ogres as mercs as well.

I personally think a Mercenary mechanic would be better implemented for Estalia, Tilea, and the Border Princes were they ever expanded upon and made playable.

AHumpierRogue#5296

Erstus said:

Alanthemoderate said:

Aragorn1ring said:

Wouldnt it be odd if my undead army was marching with some mercs?

Speaking from Lore, not really, remember that the Vampire Counts see themselves as normal counts, they wouldn't mind using mercs at all.

This and Lahima(?) was ruled by a vampire queen that had undead and Human soldiers. I also believe Tilea uses Dwarves and Ogres as mercs as well.

I personally think a Mercenary mechanic would be better implemented for Estalia, Tilea, and the Border Princes were they ever expanded upon and made playable.

iirc Every faction in WHFB minus I think Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs(?) and I believe Tomb Kings(I'll count Richter Kreuger as Vampire Counts but iirc he has a bit of everything in his company) has some mercs from them, if not on the TT than at least in the Lore. I would personally really like to be able to use VERY basic dwarf units(Warriors and Quarellers at most) to represent Mercs and dwarfies living in the Empire in Empire cities and when Ogres are released some basic ogres too to represent Mercs.

Also, VCs even have an army of humans that they use to fight occasionally, usually as a very minor part of their primary army of Undead but there are still some state troops that serve under Sylvanias banner.

Aurelian777

I think Dogs of War as a mercenary function would be a great dlc, it could be some very expensive veteran and unique units for hire. Though it would make some factions kind of less unique if you could just hire them, but they could be fairly expensive to combat that i guess. So maybe only 1 VC army had mercs in it.

Galvanized Iron

Smells of pay to win DLC, no thanks. Only acceptable as FLC.

Aurelian777

Galvanized Iron said:

Smells of pay to win DLC, no thanks. Only acceptable as FLC.

How is it pay to win?

Valeli#5924

I mean -

The most obvious reason for not having mercenaries is to make the undead mechanic a unique strength. And, even thought I'd enjoy mechanics, I can respect that. The whole raise dead thing does give that faction a very unique strength.

So.... DOW. They shouldn't be forgotten/ignored.

I think they'll be added either in a Tilea/Estalia/Border Princes DLC, or in a "Regiments of Renown" DLC.

I used to hate the DLC racket. I still hate it. But I've given up railing against it, because - apparently - my voice makes no difference at all. GG corporations, you win.

Mooncake

Aurelian said:

Galvanized Iron said:

Smells of pay to win DLC, no thanks. Only acceptable as FLC.

How is it pay to win?

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Galvanized Iron

Aurelian said:

Galvanized Iron said:

Smells of pay to win DLC, no thanks. Only acceptable as FLC.

How is it pay to win?

Because adding units to existing factions gives advantages in MP for those who buy it. A good example of this would be how HatG for R2 unlocked Samnite Mercenary Cavalry for some factions and they were superior to anything in those factions regular cavalry roster. It took several patches until that imbalance was fixed. So yes, unit packs for existing factions are pay to win unless the added units are useless or SP only.

Valeli#5924

Adding units or adding skins? Adding skins isn't pay to win. Even if the stats are marginally different, there probably no significance there.

Adding clearly better units, of course, is a different story.

I'll reserve judgement till I see what's what. Because there's nothing wrong with adding different skins (ie: knights panther = reiksguard but with +2 melee attack or something). That's not pay to win, as long as they cost a tiny bit more as well.

Galvanized Iron

Mooncake said:

Aurelian said:

Galvanized Iron said:

Smells of pay to win DLC, no thanks. Only acceptable as FLC.

How is it pay to win?

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Valeli said:

Adding units or adding skins? Adding skins isn't pay to win. Even if the stats are marginally different, there probably no significance there.

Adding clearly better units, of course, is a different story.

I'll reserve judgement till I see what's what. Because there's nothing wrong with adding different skins (ie: knights panther = reiksguard but with +2 melee attack or something). That's not pay to win, as long as they cost a tiny bit more as well.

Sure, but they pretty much need to be unique in order to generate sales. So that's why I think that new factions can be DLC, but additions to existing factions have to be FLC. Exception could perhaps be LLs if they are balanced.

Valeli#5924

Hmm.

I don't think they have to be unique to generate sales. I think a lot of people would have bought knights panther/knights of the blazing sun/some "knightly orders of the empire" DLC, even with marginal changes. Not necesarily for the stats, but for the genuinely different unit skins.

Modders would love that too, I imagine. More skins = more parts they can mix and match to create custom units. There's certainly a player base.

Pay 2 Win also implies a heavy design focus on MP.......
But let's be real: CA has /not/ made MP a front and center feature of this TW title (or of almost any other TW title, for that matter). No one needs Pay 2 Win for campaign. If you think the DLC is just P 2 W, I think you're giving CA more credit than they're due as far as MP support goes.

MP is just a red headed step child to them if you ask me.
Until they prove otherwise. (and, by all means, I hope they do).

Galvanized Iron

Valeli said:

Hmm.

I don't think they have to be unique to generate sales. I think a lot of people would have bought knights panther/knights of the blazing sun/some "knightly orders of the empire" DLC, even with marginal changes. Not necesarily for the stats, but for the genuinely different unit skins.

Modders would love that too, I imagine. More skins = more parts they can mix and match to create custom units. There's certainly a player base.

Pay 2 Win also implies a heavy design focus on MP.......
But let's be real: CA has /not/ made MP a front and center feature of this TW title (or of almost any other TW title, for that matter). No one needs Pay 2 Win for campaign. If you think the DLC is just P 2 W, I think you're giving CA more credit than they're due as far as MP support goes.

MP is just a red headed step child to them if you ask me.
Until they prove otherwise. (and, by all means, I hope they do).

The issue is that those who just want reskins can just get a mod for SP. For MP you never zoom in on your units anyhow except if you are unsure of what general the enemy brought. So it seems a reskin would really be able to sell more than a handful of copies.

Of course I am not talking about campaign. In campaign you can win with pretty much anything regardless of the difficulty level.

I see no point in arguing the relevance of the MP, but ironically I think the MP players would be the ones most likely to buy a unit pack in order to be able to keep up with those who get it, so that's why MP is an important factor to consider when adding new units.

Valeli#5924

That's the problem, I think. You're not talking about campaign.

But do you sincerely think that CA is fully supporting MP in this game? If you do, you're much more optimistic than I am. For some P2W DLC scheme to work, they'd have to be supporting MP to a significant extent..... and I just don't see evidence of that.

MP is, if not a joke.... let's just say lacking.

As far as reskins, we can't just get a mod (for now). For now, mods are stuck to unit piece mix and matches. Some of those are creative but, on the whole, they really don't match an actual new unit. A new skin would be a significant addition as far as looks go, until CA releases further modding resources. As best I understand, at least.

Galvanized Iron

Yes I get your point, but MP players would proportionally be the largest group of buyers for such a unit pack since for them it would become obligatory.

Valeli#5924

That's true - if the stats were silly. And, I mean, if that's the case, then you're clearly right and I cede the point.

I'll wait to see the actual stats before fretting over it though. If it turns out to be the case then... yeah. That's bad design/corporate greed/whatever.

TheShiroOfDalton

GW discontinued Dogs of War precisely for the reason that it made it too simple to plug gaps in one's own army's roster.

Do not expect them to show up as mercenaries for this very reason. At most they'll be used to flesh out Tilea's and Estalia's rosters.

As for PtW...that'd only be a problem if players got full access to any merc units in MP. The tables for unit availability are separate after all.

dodge33cymru#1936

I'd be fine with the concept of this, but I would want the units to be expensive as heck in game, so as to avoid the 'plugging holes' scenario without penalty.

Would prefer an Estalian or Tilean fleshing out though, even if just using Rome2 and Attila models as a base!

Commissar_G#7535

I never liked the idea of mercs in Warhammer.

Removed the individuality and uniqueness of armies.

A few of the units in the DoW DLC will be over-powered, and then everyone will use them. It removes the natural strengths and weaknesses from armies and if you think demigryphs were OP? Imagine a unit akin to that but everyone has access to.

No thanks.

Neolucifer2000

WE NEED THE DOGS OF WAR ASAP

chiefthan

neolucifer2000 said:

WE NEED THE DOGS OF WAR ASAP

no please for I agree whit the first tree posts above yours

thesniperdevil

I would love the regiments of renown in the game but am not sure how to have them.

One thing that may be cool is availability of a unit as a random event. Similar to the C.o.W mod.

That way you can't build a strategy or army comp around them reliably.

Kayosiv#7489

Dogs of war is its own army. In 6th edition you could purchase units from that army in other armies in the rare section, but if added it could be its own faction.

It's just a faction made up of many unique units. It's just like heroes, but units of them, at a premium price. It's a cool idea that I'd like to see.

Galvanized Iron

If they are their own faction then I am cool with it. I just don't want to see paid unlocks for factions I already bought when getting the game.

I suppose one option would be to let them be mercs for all factions in SP, but in MP they form their own faction. I think that would be the best solution.