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General strategy guide request for Vampire Counts

Tyrion1978Tyrion1978 Registered Users Posts: 51
edited July 2016 in General Discussion
Hi,

What I think

I get the feeling VCs are kinda similar to Dwarfs, as in you have to wait until you have enough corruption in a town/province you took, before heading further.

Generally speaking, I think it would be best to head for that blue Dwarf faction first, because the Humans will tear each other apart while you fight the Dwarfs. And they'll get pounded by the first Chaos armies. When you're done with them, you can come back and crush the winner/survivor (and any lingering Chaos troops).

Tactics wise I don't think I miss not having any ranged, at all (at least when playing VCs). And the other army's ranged isn't a problem either, because that's where Zombies come in. Put a line of Zombies as the first wave, have your higher tier troops protect themselves behind them and flank the opponent with them once your Zombies hit.

Enemy flanking charges same thing, soak it up with Zombies and hold them down until your stronger troops show up.
Don't worry about losing Zombie troops. They hardly do any damage so they're not gaining any (or marginal) experience anyway, so just replace them through raising.

However ...

I feel like I'm moving to slow. Waiting for corruption to go up from (close to) 0% to agreeable takes AGES. Since heading into Dwarf country causes attrition, I usually take that first Border Princess town, so that I have at least that as some sort of ahead-outpost.

EDIT: Oh, even with bonuses to corruption like the sword (which seems massive but isn't), it takes long...

But again, getting that town to an agreeable corruption level takes ages. By that time the Dwarfs have formed a confederation and have grown really large. Sometimes the Greenskins keep them in check, but usually it's the other way round.

I have maxed that skill that reduces attrition effect..

So ... what can I do better?

Comments

  • ValeliValeli Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,120
    edited July 2016
    I went for that blue faction (Zhufbar) first (well, almost. Second or third, really, but early on) in my most recent campaign. I tore them apart easily enough.

    It ended up being a huge problem. The Orcs took over the dwarfs in the south, confederated everything, colonized all the then-empty dwarf cities that I had razed from Zhufbar, and eventually declared war on me with ~6 stacks + bonus Waagh armies just as Chaos came.

    Game over.

    Next time I'll very much try to keep those dwarfs alive as a buffer..... Even when dwarfs go to war, at least they don't drag a billion free waagh armies after them. Eesh.

    As for zombies, I barely touch them. They're too slow and annoy me, and they crumple significantly faster than skeletons (in my mod, at least). Skeletons are cheap enough anyways.
  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 4,184
    In a short victory for VC, you don't need to attack the dwarves and I go straight after the empire and ignore the dwarves.

    If you are going for a long victory, you have to decide whether to go after dwarves first or last. I still think going after dwarves last is best. Yes, the dwarves MIGHT confederate. But they might also get wiped out by the greenskins.

    Still to be on the safe side, you should probably head through the border princes, and go after the silver road if the dwarves haven't become too large, and try to take them out before they start confederating. You can ignore the other 7 dwarf kingdoms, just take out the high king, and leave the rest to the greenskins.

  • OmuthOmuth Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 246
    I have not played as VC but in other races you can move without attrition while in raid mode.
    If not to heaven, then hand in hand to hell.
  • WesealfishWesealfish Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 158
    Avoid attrition by raiding as said above.

    Once you have grave guard you don't need zombies, between their shields and armour grave guard are extremely resistant to missile attack and provide a very dependable battle line.

    I favour keeping the dwarves and green skins in balance by giving cash to whichever side is losing ground, I do however like to harrie the dwarves mostly out of the world's edge mountains just so I don't have a dwarven power base right next to drakenhof, this also allows your corruption to spread into the mountains which will help when it comes time to go after the dwarves.

    Waiting for corruption to build is secondary for me, more important in my view is building up to at least tier 3 buildings with walls in minor settlements before I advance the front. This should mean that (a) corruption will have built up without specific effort to increase it (b) public order will be stable and (c) you will have increased your income enough to raise additional troops and not get spread too thin, which is the biggest problem when expanding as VC in early or mid game.
  • Tempus_fugitTempus_fugit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,392

    Hi,...EDIT: Oh, even with bonuses to corruption like the sword (which seems massive but isn't), it takes long...

    But again, getting that town to an agreeable corruption level takes ages. ...

    I have maxed that skill that reduces attrition effect..

    So ... what can I do better?

    Firstly, you don't take attrition in a territory you own, regardless of its corruption level. The Vamps can quickly seize territory in the early game, using your numbers and the awesome power of the Invocation of Nehek to overcome "stronger" armies quite easily. And then just wait for the corruption in these territories to build up while you continue conquering. This network of provinces provides attrition-free travel corridors.

    You don't need to wait for corruption in new territories you want to conquer to build up at all before taking and holding them successfully.

    You can blitz the entire Sylvania, west and east in the first nine turns (or less if you somehow can manage that. I can even give you a step-by-step guide for how to do it on VH/VH). You can then target either Averheim or Stirland in the west or Ostermark to the north.

    You can also turtle quite easily, but where is the fun in that?

    Regarding the attrition reduction effect, as said above, use raid stance to prevent taking attrition in enemy / non-Vamp territory. It costs 50% of movement points to enter, but once in it for a turn, you get to move about 75% of your normal movement range while remaining in attrition-free raid stance. This means that having the attrition reduction skill is only sometimes useful and most ppl will ignore it.

    Trick to getting corruption acceptable so that you don't have rebellions:
    1. Firstly, prioritise getting the province capital. Defensible and with the most slots, you will want a balefire (vampiric corruption) chain of buildings. This only happens at tier 2, so you can build a charnel pits (growth) building first in tier 1 cities. (Tip: You can also wait for a new tier 1 city to get one population surplus (very quick), upgrade it to level two and then build the gallows and balefire buildings in the two slots available to get public order and corruption, and ignore the less useful charnel pit chain until you have more slots.)
    2. After building the corruption building, build the obligatory gallows chains (pub order + money).
    3. Use a wight king to boost public order in the province, or even a cheap skeleton+zombie stack to keep order until it stabilises.
    4. You can also build secondary balefire buildings in the minor settlements, if you really need to. Otherwise, just one in the province capital is sufficient.

    The main choice / result of choices with Vampires is which types of factions you will (or want to) typically fight against.
    * Go west or north and fight Empire factions, Norscans and, eventually Chaos. Going north involves fighting Norscan tribes, so if you don't like fighting maraurder horsemen, then rather go south or west. But, the northern settlements are very rich, and Wolfenburg has a gold mine, which is handy.
    * Go south and fight Empire and (eventually) Bretonnian factions. Going south also often means you will get into conflict with either the dwarfs or the greenskins, and the fact that you cannot take their territories makes it punishing to carry out a decisive campaign against either of them. But going south means that you will be able to get a string of provinces that are difficult for Chaos factions to threaten, giving you a nice reasonably secure financial base to fund big armies.
    It is also sometimes nice to have the Dwarfs and Orcs as enemies, because then every few turns or so, you will probably have to fight a battle, which reduces the "turn+end turn+repeat" doldrums.
    There is no time but the present. – S:TW Hojo, R:TW Brutii/Germania/Alemanni(BI), Med2: Venice, S2: Oda, R2: Julia/Boii/Suebi/Lusitani, Attila: Geats/Garamantians, WH: All factions VH, Wood Elves on L. TWWH2: Lizardmen, Dark Elves, Skaven, Khalida, High Elves, Vampirates. ME: Khalida, Vampire Counts, Carcasonne, Wood Elves
  • SlaistsSlaists Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,902
    I join all wars of Dwarves and the Empire on turn 1. That way, they become friendly soon enough and you can trade with both. Get Sylvania consolidated within 10 turns or so then go after Border Princes whom everybody hates (get more trade partners that way). By the time you're done with Border Princes corruption from Sylvania will have spread around your starting provinces and probably Vampiric rebels would have destroyed some of the regions near you. So, easy pickings for you on the way back from Borderlands.
  • AvadonAvadon Registered Users Posts: 1,545
    Valeli said:

    I went for that blue faction (Zhufbar) first (well, almost. Second or third, really, but early on) in my most recent campaign. I tore them apart easily enough.

    It ended up being a huge problem. The Orcs took over the dwarfs in the south, confederated everything, colonized all the then-empty dwarf cities that I had razed from Zhufbar, and eventually declared war on me with ~6 stacks + bonus Waagh armies just as Chaos came.

    Game over.

    Next time I'll very much try to keep those dwarfs alive as a buffer..... Even when dwarfs go to war, at least they don't drag a billion free waagh armies after them. Eesh.

    As for zombies, I barely touch them. They're too slow and annoy me, and they crumple significantly faster than skeletons (in my mod, at least). Skeletons are cheap enough anyways.


    I pretty much attacked zhurfbar the same as you did after I blilzed through the rebel VC.

    They though (after sacking one of their settlments) offered to become a vassal to mine self.

    Unsure if anyone has actually done that through offensively murderous means....

  • ValeliValeli Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,120
    Haha. I had them become a vassal in my game too.

    I was awful and backstabbed them just a few turns before the orcs came for me. I guess it was Karma......

    Their armies were nice - they fielded more stacks from the one province than I could have added by taking it. And they actually did use them against my enemies fairly consistently. I have trouble seeing the map in colors other than mine though :(
  • WarlustWarlust Registered Users Posts: 21
    From 100's of hours of Legendary experience, the best way to victory for VC that I have found is to go directly for the Empire. Crush Stirland, avoid Averland and Wissenland for the time being if you can, and march on the Reikland. You need money and lots of it to field more/stronger armies. I play aggressively as VC and I can have both Sylvanias under control in 5 turns and the Reikland by turn 25. The Reikland and Marienburg provinces are huge moneymakers, not to mention the wizard tower in Altdorf is a huge bonus to your necros and vamps. (+10 starting points for necros, 12 when Kemmler is there, +9 for vamps)

    Once you've secured those areas, then you can conquer what's left of the Counts and conquer everything south of the Rivers Reik and Talabec to Bechafen - where you will stage your defense against Chaos.

    As for corruption, use agents, Balefire buildings ASAP, and defeat uprisings for more money and exp. You only need a lord with zombies to handle such matters. All my military buildings go into E. Sylvania, except for more Binding Circles and Vamp/Necro buildings when my capitals reach 4/5. Balefires, Gallows, and Charnel Pits are priority for corruption, public order, and fast growth for new provinces. Once you reach 4/5, you can delete a building or two for the more important buildings mentioned. Spec your heroes in the Campaign tree and get the +corruption or public order skills when available. In the mid-late game when I conquer a new province, I bring a vampire, wight king, and necro for faster growth, public order, and cheaper buildings with the added benefit of more corruption.

    On the discussion of the Dwarves - I've tried allying with the Greenskins and destroying the Dwarves early, but more often than not they betray me and declare war on me, so I've always let them fight it out while I control the Empire/Britonnia provinces. I defeat the Dwarves last, if they are still alive, for a long campaign victory. I've also tried the Border Princes route, and while that area is super rich with ports, you can bog yourself down in the south and when Chaos comes, you can be caught off guard.

    Hope this helps.
  • Tyrion1978Tyrion1978 Registered Users Posts: 51
    @WarLust : Thanks a bunch!
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