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Chaos warriors: What's the point anymore?

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  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...
    Daemons of Chaos are a separate army.
  • Stormspirit88Stormspirit88 Registered Users Posts: 123

    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...

    The beastmen are the vanguard of chaos... The WoC are the rank and file... But without the Deamons this little axis of evil is missing it's heart...

    And I can't help but feel underwhelmed by chaos without the spirits

    One can only hope they will appear in time... Though it sure seems like WoC have no problems razing most of the map on their own, so hopefully we get some more civilization here in between...

    I believe they are working from 8th edition. In which case the Daemons of Chaos are their own completely separate faction.
  • Aragorn1ringAragorn1ring Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 287
    Chaos is probably much more hardy than Beastmen. Almost all Chaos units have a s'load of armor. Chosen.. well they are Chosen.
  • Stormspirit88Stormspirit88 Registered Users Posts: 123
    pauli77 said:

    The game will be patched as well so there may be some minor changes to Chaos.

    Their armies are quite different and in a stand up fight you'd be far better with Chaos warriors than the cloven hooved ones.

    Exactly. They are two completely different armies.

    In tabletop the Beastmen have an even more powerful ambush mechanic then we have in total war. That's because they are a low armor, low leadership army that depends on it. The Warriors of Chaos are almost literally the *opposite*. Ones a glass cannon the others a juggernaut.

    They are simply too different army composition wise to argue that the WoC have no point.
  • ChronusUndividedChronusUndivided Registered Users Posts: 148

    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...
    Daemons of Chaos are a separate army.

    In the same way that chaos dwarves don't exist...

    But even in the end times a Deamon Prince was a valid choice...

    My point wasn't that they should all be on the same roster, my point was its hard to paint the picture of the chaos hordes (WoC, Beasmen, etc.) without, you know, the deamons, or even marks of chaos...

    I mean shouldn't the Deamons be he ones effected by corruption even, WoC are just men...
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,374
    Well the WoC still have cool units like Hellcannons and Chaos dragons. So still fun to play with.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • ChronusUndividedChronusUndivided Registered Users Posts: 148

    Well the WoC still have cool units like Hellcannons and Chaos dragons. So still fun to play with.

    Because chaos dragons are really useful...

    Most impressive looking for least impressive combat even...

    Not worth the charlemagnes
  • AetaosRauKeresAetaosRauKeres Registered Users Posts: 327

    Beastmen do absolutely everything better. They raze everything, they can cooperate without attrition and they can make waaghs. Plus they can put 100 corruption with a single button after razing. CHAOS CANNOT PUT AS MUCH CHAOS CORRUPTION AS BEASTMEN.
    What gives? How does this make sense?

    wow, that really makes me think

    I hate Warrior of Chaos now
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,374

    Well the WoC still have cool units like Hellcannons and Chaos dragons. So still fun to play with.

    Because chaos dragons are really useful...

    Most impressive looking for least impressive combat even...

    Not worth the charlemagnes
    Flame cannons aren't useful either, but I still use them because they're cool.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    edited July 2016
    I think demons would be worth a couple Charlemagnes.
  • SicarivsSicarivs Member BrazilRegistered Users Posts: 141
    lol, i love how the whole Charlemagne thing became a meme. xDDD
    anyways, Chaos warriors really really need some daemons. =|
    Alexandre: it's funny how every total war game has it's own "realm divide"
    Alexandre: half of the world hates me by now
    BFI ' Lorenzohh: just the game's way of saying: you've played enough, **** you.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    I think demons would be worth a couple Charlemagnes.


  • ChronusUndividedChronusUndivided Registered Users Posts: 148

    I think demons would be worth a couple Charlemagnes.


    Sorry just no Charlemagnes left for other memes
  • SicarivsSicarivs Member BrazilRegistered Users Posts: 141
    This shall cost you many Charlemagnes, sir! i'll see to that!
    Alexandre: it's funny how every total war game has it's own "realm divide"
    Alexandre: half of the world hates me by now
    BFI ' Lorenzohh: just the game's way of saying: you've played enough, **** you.
  • AvadonAvadon Registered Users Posts: 1,545

    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...

    The beastmen are the vanguard of chaos... The WoC are the rank and file... But without the Deamons this little axis of evil is missing it's heart...

    And I can't help but feel underwhelmed by chaos without the spirits

    One can only hope they will appear in time... Though it sure seems like WoC have no problems razing most of the map on their own, so hopefully we get some more civilization here in between...

    I believe they are working from 8th edition. In which case the Daemons of Chaos are their own completely separate faction.

    Welp it's understandable... I mean humans have mostly failed the dark ruinous powers so far in taking the old world for them.

  • ChronusUndividedChronusUndivided Registered Users Posts: 148
    Avadon said:

    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...

    The beastmen are the vanguard of chaos... The WoC are the rank and file... But without the Deamons this little axis of evil is missing it's heart...

    And I can't help but feel underwhelmed by chaos without the spirits

    One can only hope they will appear in time... Though it sure seems like WoC have no problems razing most of the map on their own, so hopefully we get some more civilization here in between...

    I believe they are working from 8th edition. In which case the Daemons of Chaos are their own completely separate faction.

    Welp it's understandable... I mean humans have mostly failed the dark ruinous powers so far in taking the old world for them.
    Also worth noting they were led by deamon princes... And could field deamons, just not as core units... much like Deamons could field chaos warriors...

    But then again most everyone could use dogs of war (mercenaries) so...

    Charlemagne?
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394

    Avadon said:

    Chaos without Deamons is like a cocktail without the booze...

    The beastmen are the vanguard of chaos... The WoC are the rank and file... But without the Deamons this little axis of evil is missing it's heart...

    And I can't help but feel underwhelmed by chaos without the spirits

    One can only hope they will appear in time... Though it sure seems like WoC have no problems razing most of the map on their own, so hopefully we get some more civilization here in between...

    I believe they are working from 8th edition. In which case the Daemons of Chaos are their own completely separate faction.

    Welp it's understandable... I mean humans have mostly failed the dark ruinous powers so far in taking the old world for them.
    Also worth noting they were led by deamon princes... And could field deamons, just not as core units... much like Deamons could field chaos warriors...

    But then again most everyone could use dogs of war (mercenaries) so...

    Charlemagne?
    Dogs of war was mostly to fix massive holes in pre seventh edition that didn't get removed when everyone got monsters and later really sacked out filler units like great weapon archers. So I'm not to bothered that they aren't open to every faction. I do wonder if some factions should get lore friendly levy options, like the three chaos empire and other humans, VC and some humans, wood elves and trial knights
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • Total War ftwTotal War ftw Member Registered Users Posts: 1,272

    Oh don't worry, They're saving the best stuff for skaven.
    Turn 1, end turn, You win cause Skaven is just that good :smile:
    Totally true story.

    As for Chaos, I think they'll expand more upon them in an expansion. (hopefully)
    (It would be neat if the rifts caused by Chaos gave off osmosis.

    You really think humanoid rats are going to be the best race huh?
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,455

    Chaos: infighting

    Beastmen: no infighting

    Time to throw WoC into the trash bin.

    At the very least the Chaos Marauders and other Chaos low tier units would have the no infighting trait, if the infighting in Chaos is for the sake of "balance".

    Beastmen do absolutely everything better. They raze everything, they can cooperate without attrition and they can make waaghs. Plus they can put 100 corruption with a single button after razing. CHAOS CANNOT PUT AS MUCH CHAOS CORRUPTION AS BEASTMEN.
    What gives? How does this make sense?

    You seem to think that Beastmen are not a Chaos faction by your sentence with all caps. You obviously don't know about the way beastmen defile things.
    Can't be worse then the way that Chaos defile things, so there is no reason for Chaos to not have almost the same options that the Beastmen have after they take over a City, it's actually kinda silly that Chaos hordes can spend most of it's Robbing Cities, while leaving the population alive, it's not the way that Chaos works.

    http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Praag
  • swarmofsealsswarmofseals Registered Users Posts: 53
    Maybe I am misinterpreting what they showed in the video, but it looked like the defile option only adds 100 chaos corruption for a single turn. That won't actually do all that much to the overall corruption level of the province. It'll spike a bit and then quickly revert, which seems rather useless to me (not that you can realistically cause public order problems on higher difficulties anyway).
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    These decisions CA keeps making, they aren't making a lot of sense anymore huh.

    What would be a nice treat is if WoC got some of the options Beastmen have when they make their appearance on the 28th. A couple units of beastmen in the WoC roster would be nice. Could lead into a greater mercenary system if we're lucky.
  • Dragoonmaster101Dragoonmaster101 Registered Users Posts: 22
    But Chaos Warriors are a flood of innumerable stacks on higher difficulties while Beastmen will be a constant annoyance if managed properly.
  • Commissar_G#7535Commissar_G#7535 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,864
    grayhat said:


    Dogs of war was mostly to fix massive holes in pre seventh edition that didn't get removed when everyone got monsters and later really sacked out filler units like great weapon archers. So I'm not to bothered that they aren't open to every faction. I do wonder if some factions should get lore friendly levy options, like the three chaos empire and other humans, VC and some humans, wood elves and trial knights

    I'd rather they focussed their budget on the main armies first.

    If we can't even get basic stuff like a beastmen core chariot unit DoW might as well be cheese on the moon.
    MarcusLivius: You are indeed a lord of entitlement.
  • RealnosuchnameRealnosuchname Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,495

    I think demons would be worth a couple Charlemagnes.


    No charlemagnes were given...
    Auto resolving has been hugely improvement in warhammer 2, its far better compared to the first one, but it still needs some tweaking, especially the dark elves.
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,332
    Warriors of Chaos have far more elite units. Their hordes in campaign are much better.

  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,232
    Warriors of Chaos have the stronger roster as long as:

    -jabberslythe(flying,cause terror,poison,range tongue attack)

    -Ghorgon(Melee giant heals himself with killing)

    -Harpies (only cheap flyer for beastmen compared to Jabber)

    are missing.

  • DeathofjamsDeathofjams Registered Users Posts: 290

    Warriors of Chaos have the stronger roster as long as:

    -jabberslythe(flying,cause terror,poison,range tongue attack)

    -Ghorgon(Melee giant heals himself with killing)

    -Harpies (only cheap flyer for beastmen compared to Jabber)

    are missing.

    Even if the Beastmen had these, they still couldn't beat Chaos in a straight-up fight. The best Beastmen infantry unit - the Bestigor - is only slightly better than Chaos Warriors with Great Weapons in terms of its combat stats. Minotaurs are good, but are matched by Dragon Ogres (the Minotaurs' Bloodgreed skill might give them the edge in a one-on-one fight, though). Chaos Knights obviously beat Centigors, as - probably - would most Chaos Warriors units unless they were being cycle-charged from behind.

    Would these units change that? A Ghorgon might be able to outfight a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, but like most monsters would die to Chosen with Halberds. Harpies' only use would be to take out Hellcannons, and if their stats are like the TT they might struggle to do even that.

    Even with their full roster a Beastmen army would just bounce off a Chaos army - the only way to win would be to outmanoeuvre them or outnumber them. Some crappy fliers and a couple of monsters won't change that.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    At least you would feel better about losing if you had more fancy units. It would probably look good too.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,455
    bronhoms said:

    Warriors of Chaos have far more elite units. Their hordes in campaign are much better.

    Not all of the Warriors of Chaos units are elite, at the very least Chaos Marauders should have 'Resilience', the trait that would allow them to avoid Infighting, and then the Chaos player would have the choice of going with one elite stack, or several low tier stacks, also the Chaos AI is not having Infighting for all it's units from day one, so it's would be only fair to give at least to some of Chaos player units this ability.
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,332
    Tayvar said:

    bronhoms said:

    Warriors of Chaos have far more elite units. Their hordes in campaign are much better.

    Not all of the Warriors of Chaos units are elite, at the very least Chaos Marauders should have 'Resilience', the trait that would allow them to avoid Infighting, and then the Chaos player would have the choice of going with one elite stack, or several low tier stacks, also the Chaos AI is not having Infighting for all it's units from day one, so it's would be only fair to give at least to some of Chaos player units this ability.
    No, but the WoC doesnt spawn with marauders, only the Norsca factions does, and they arent playable anyway. It would be a great deal harder to play any faction if the Norscans were immune too. Espe ially once Beastmen are involved.

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