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Chaos warriors: What's the point anymore?

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  • ShaddShadd Registered Users Posts: 461
    There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting.


    Yeah, a special skill available at level 30 to make Archaon's army immune to infighting would be very Everchosen.
  • TheGuardianOfMetal#3661TheGuardianOfMetal#3661 Registered Users Posts: 14,701
    from what i've read all over the web, wasnt hte DLC only released because some people cried about how much they wanted to play Chaos? A bit like with the Huns in Attila?
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • SephirexSephirex Registered Users Posts: 1,028
    edited December 2016

    from what i've read all over the web, wasnt hte DLC only released because some people cried about how much they wanted to play Chaos? A bit like with the Huns in Attila?

    Yeah. Chaos was only going to be an enemy faction, but being they're such a big deal in Warhammer, it was felt they needed to be playable in the initial release. CA approached Sega about increasing the budget to make them a playable faction at release, and Sega agreed but only if they were made a pre-order bonus and if they mostly focused on assets already in the game. CA tried to slap a campaign together taking some horde mechanics from Attila, and....

    Well we got what we got.
  • TheGuardianOfMetal#3661TheGuardianOfMetal#3661 Registered Users Posts: 14,701
    thing is: i wouldnt have minded it too much if it wouldnt have been playable... sure it would've been a bit disappointing... but the Chaos invasion could've gotten the hell buffed out of them in return and actually be a huge danger i think... so the units and heroes have to be based, even with their buffs, around the units as in use by the player
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Death to all Thread Necromancers.
  • SaphironSaphiron Registered Users Posts: 827
    This thread should be in feedback so the devs can see it, and we should all support it.

    The chaos invasion lacks teeth, it's not scary, it's not an "oh crap" moment.

    It should be. They should be the ultimate threat, AI nations should temporarily ally to oppose that threat. They shouldn't be a minor inconvenience.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Chaos Invasion feedback is either whining about it being too strong or too weak.

    Which makes it 100% useless.
  • SaphironSaphiron Registered Users Posts: 827

    Chaos Invasion feedback is either whining about it being too strong or too weak.

    Which makes it 100% useless.

    Well, it IS the endtimes. It should be strong. It should involve even much of the AI banding together to face overwhelming odds.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Saphiron said:

    Chaos Invasion feedback is either whining about it being too strong or too weak.

    Which makes it 100% useless.

    Well, it IS the endtimes. It should be strong. It should involve even much of the AI banding together to face overwhelming odds.
    Yeah, and then people complain that the map's a wasteland.

    There's no "right" answer that will satisfy everyone, period.
  • TheGuardianOfMetal#3661TheGuardianOfMetal#3661 Registered Users Posts: 14,701
    edited December 2016

    Saphiron said:

    Chaos Invasion feedback is either whining about it being too strong or too weak.

    Which makes it 100% useless.

    Well, it IS the endtimes. It should be strong. It should involve even much of the AI banding together to face overwhelming odds.
    Yeah, and then people complain that the map's a wasteland.
    not when i'm playing as friggin beastmen and the darn tree huggers are seeding their friggin trees quicker than i can raze the rest of the world...
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • SaphironSaphiron Registered Users Posts: 827
    Shadd said:

    There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting.


    Yeah, a special skill available at level 30 to make Archaon's army immune to infighting would be very Everchosen.
    This should be true of all the great chaos leaders - kholek, sigvald, and archeaon. Have it be a level 25-30 skill (which is easy for a chaos lord to reach).

    Include a big upkeep discount for that army as well, so they can raise more troops. I sacked every city in the world virtually and I never got a fifth stack.

    This idea should DEFINITELY be in the feedback and suggestions forum so it's seen.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    ...or in short make their campaign 100% more easy and boring.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Because of how terribly the entire invasion was implemented. Horde infighting is just one of those side things nobody likes and really does nothing but put another unneeded limit on the player. It also doesn't make a good damn ounce of sense for the 'Chaos Undivided' to be literally divisive.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,455
    Malessar said:

    #Ressurection
    Chaos campaign is way less fun than the beastmen, with their random events and choices with the moon cycles. Why does the chosen of the Gods suffer infighting? There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting. And something needs to be done to revamp the chaos campaign. It's dull and boring. Beastmen get all the funn.

    Welcome to campaign's power creep, Beastmen are more new, so only they get the new things.
    Shadd said:

    There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting.


    Yeah, a special skill available at level 30 to make Archaon's army immune to infighting would be very Everchosen.
    Infighting should not be even an thing for Chaos Undivided, it's might have been an legit mechanic for Non-Chaos Undivided Lords and Armies who get close to other dark god's army.
  • Nitros14#7973Nitros14#7973 Registered Users Posts: 2,948
    I do feel the Chaos Campaign could've used more events, and definitely a final quest battle at Middenheim to finish it off with the destruction of the Old World.
  • Tyer032392Tyer032392 Registered Users Posts: 4,787
    If it makes you feel any better, Chaos has arguably the most handsome man in existence.
    Ready for Three Kingdom's TW: I5-6600k, EVGA Geforce GTX 1070SC, 16Gigs RAM, WD Blue PC SSD @ 500GB
  • MalessarMalessar Registered Users Posts: 37
    Saphiron said:

    This thread should be in feedback so the devs can see it, and we should all support it.

    The chaos invasion lacks teeth, it's not scary, it's not an "oh crap" moment.

    It should be. They should be the ultimate threat, AI nations should temporarily ally to oppose that threat. They shouldn't be a minor inconvenience.

    I reported your comment and wrote this as the reason:
    "He's right, please take a look. I think this is worth bringing up to the devs"
    This way a moderator will see it... Because you're right, this topic shoudl be moved to feedback. Warriors of chaos need to be revised, the dlc is bland and poor compared to the others and it doesn't deserve to be.
  • TheOrganKingTheOrganKing Registered Users Posts: 990
    Malessar said:

    Saphiron said:

    This thread should be in feedback so the devs can see it, and we should all support it.

    The chaos invasion lacks teeth, it's not scary, it's not an "oh crap" moment.

    It should be. They should be the ultimate threat, AI nations should temporarily ally to oppose that threat. They shouldn't be a minor inconvenience.

    I reported your comment and wrote this as the reason:
    "He's right, please take a look. I think this is worth bringing up to the devs"
    This way a moderator will see it... Because you're right, this topic shoudl be moved to feedback. Warriors of chaos need to be revised, the dlc is bland and poor compared to the others and it doesn't deserve to be.
    Remember that the WoC wasn't initially meant to be playable at launch, that along with all the hints CA have dropped about how chaos is going to be a massive threat by the end of the third game seems to me like we will probably be seeing a pretty big rework of WoC before the trilogy is out.
    "Chaos strong. Gors strong. Humans, Elves, Dwarf — weak. We win. We fight, we kill, one day we win. One day soon. You — if you lucky, we eat you, make you into part of us, make you better than you, stronger than any of you, stronger than all of you. Once this arm weak, like you. I eat many of your kind, now I strong."
    —Karzog, Beastigor Charioteer.
  • MalessarMalessar Registered Users Posts: 37
    I know. I bet they weren't finished making the campaign for WoC when they were forced to relase it because of public outcry of "you're making us pay for something already in the game!" and due to time schedules they released it as was. While understandable at the time, now WoC is a standalone DLC and it's plainly worse than the others in campaign value. This needs to be revised :/ I just don't wanna wait years for it lol it's already being sold separatedly
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,455
    Looks like the pressure to release the WoC as soon as possible, only hurt the WoC, nice job fans. :p
  • SaphironSaphiron Registered Users Posts: 827
    edited December 2016
    Nitros14 said:

    I do feel the Chaos Campaign could've used more events, and definitely a final quest battle at Middenheim to finish it off with the destruction of the Old World.

    A final quest battle would actually be awesome.

    I just wish when they invaded the races would have a reason to band together and fight back.

    I see what Ephriam is saying though, a giant wasteland isn't necessarily awesome. Chaos should create tiny outposts at their rifts with medium garrisons of forsaken and other more twisted units like spawn so there's territory to reclaim. Let norska raze, and have chaos twist the land and fill it with monsters.

    Maybe some chaos rift battle maps? Really twisted fort battles either with or without walls. More attila style. Not required to capture to beat chaos, but preventing the GLARINGLY unfun issue of the land being a desolate waste.

    And maybe the exact garrison could depend on who captured it. Like Kholek might mean a unit of dragon ogres and a shaggoth, etc etc.
  • theedge634#1394theedge634#1394 Registered Users Posts: 2,271
    Saphiron said:

    Shadd said:

    There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting.


    Yeah, a special skill available at level 30 to make Archaon's army immune to infighting would be very Everchosen.
    This should be true of all the great chaos leaders - kholek, sigvald, and archeaon. Have it be a level 25-30 skill (which is easy for a chaos lord to reach).

    Include a big upkeep discount for that army as well, so they can raise more troops. I sacked every city in the world virtually and I never got a fifth stack.

    This idea should DEFINITELY be in the feedback and suggestions forum so it's seen.
    Or you could just ... ya know, use a mod that gets rid of it?
  • SteppelordSteppelord Registered Users Posts: 2,315
    Avadon said:

    Make chaos build monuments too, they're more disciplined than beastmen, and beastmen build but chaos warriors don't?
    Also, beastmen build siege towers - wut? xd

    And rams....you would think it would be a simple large tree trunk or something but no it's an actual ram.
    Haha get it, rams :smiley:
  • seienchinseienchin Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    Sephirex said:

    from what i've read all over the web, wasnt hte DLC only released because some people cried about how much they wanted to play Chaos? A bit like with the Huns in Attila?

    Yeah. Chaos was only going to be an enemy faction, but being they're such a big deal in Warhammer, it was felt they needed to be playable in the initial release. CA approached Sega about increasing the budget to make them a playable faction at release, and Sega agreed but only if they were made a pre-order bonus and if they mostly focused on assets already in the game. CA tried to slap a campaign together taking some horde mechanics from Attila, and....

    Well we got what we got.
    Any proof for this theory? ...
    I personally dont remember anything like this...
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092

    Saphiron said:

    Shadd said:

    There should be an in game mechanic that Archaon can research through technology that makes others see him as the Everchosen and stop the silly infighting.


    Yeah, a special skill available at level 30 to make Archaon's army immune to infighting would be very Everchosen.
    This should be true of all the great chaos leaders - kholek, sigvald, and archeaon. Have it be a level 25-30 skill (which is easy for a chaos lord to reach).

    Include a big upkeep discount for that army as well, so they can raise more troops. I sacked every city in the world virtually and I never got a fifth stack.

    This idea should DEFINITELY be in the feedback and suggestions forum so it's seen.
    Or you could just ... ya know, use a mod that gets rid of it?
    It would be preferable to fix the vanilla game. The mods I want to use are ones that add fun things to the game rather than removing the unfun crap. Those are just bandaid fixes at that point. It also hurts the game as a whole by turning away potential buyers if all they here from people is "yeah... You're gonna need mods to make the game fun and fix the screwups". If CA comes back to overghaul some of the aspects of the game.currentky left wanting, we could see more "Hey the game is great and mods just make it better!"
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    It would be preferable to fix the vanilla game. The mods I want to use are ones that add fun things to the game rather than removing the unfun crap.
    Mods are there to customize the game to your liking. That you have some sort of weird "honour" position when it comes to them doesn't matter to anyone but yourself.
  • boyfightsboyfights Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    attrition and having to build stacks that can stand on their own against two or three enemy stacks is literally the only challenge to the chaos warrior campaign and should be left the way it is. it's not even difficult to work around if you need two or more stacks for a battle, you just have to be careful with your movement

    sorry you can't just march a 3-stack death ball around the map and autoresolve everything :grimace:
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • MalessarMalessar Registered Users Posts: 37
    It's not just that. It's ABSOLUTELY grindy. Hunting the dwarves all the way down there as chaos is insane. And not even Archaon hunted down the dwarves! That was the Skaven and Goblins's job, he was busy killing everything else up north. Going ALL The way down to the badlands was... Tedious.
  • boyfightsboyfights Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    Malessar said:

    It's not just that. It's ABSOLUTELY grindy. Hunting the dwarves all the way down there as chaos is insane. And not even Archaon hunted down the dwarves! That was the Skaven and Goblins's job, he was busy killing everything else up north. Going ALL The way down to the badlands was... Tedious.

    Why bother then? I've finished three chaos campaigns and never gone into the badlands. I guess if you're dead set on the long victory conditions you might have to, but the amount of grinding all of the factions have to do to complete them as well as the lack of achievements for completing them really make me think the game is balanced around the short conditions anyway

    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • MalessarMalessar Registered Users Posts: 37
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189097/chaos-campaign/p1?new=1

    I posted on feedback :) I know they're busy doing wood elves but that's just so they take this feedback into consideration. Please tell me what you guys think
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