Patch 2 adds +4 bump to Night Goblin leadership, still lacking.

HermannTheCherusci

Thank you for raising Night Goblin leadership stats from 36 and 32, to 40 and 36 respectively. A great change, yet leadership still seems to be lacking a bit. Since the mods dropped I've been playing as Crooked Moon non-stop, and have since found myself editing the pack file to make my core units playable. I can understand why Night Goblin leadership is set intentionally low. Night Goblins skulk around in the dark and tend to flee much sooner than their surface dwelling counterparts. However, Warhammer Armies: Orc and Goblins (8th Edition) pg. 52..." When a leader arises who is both sneaky and cunning enough to focus the boundless energy and spite of the Night Goblins, he can wield their numbers as a formidable, if unstable horde." I would argue that Night Goblin leadership would match or even exceed that of Goblins when they have formed full units arrayed in the line of battle, rather than the small skirmishes that would be typical of the underway. Increasing the leadership value further to 44 or 45 would probably feel much more balanced. Particularly when you are finally able to recruit those Fanatics you've strived for all campaign, and then they feel useless on the battlefield.

quzzaq

tottally disagree, if u want a more easy game with the goblins, low the dificulty, compensate the lack of leadership, with tactics and numbers instead.

HermannTheCherusci

quzzaq said:

tottally disagree, if u want a more easy game with the goblins, low the dificulty, compensate the lack of leadership, with tactics and numbers instead.

This is not the suggestion I was making at all. Firstly this is not about Goblins, it's about Night Goblins. The easiness of the campaign was also not the topic of the suggestion. It is easy to stack up with overbearing numbers, it is easy to ambush your enemy in every engagement, and it is easy to turn the difficulty setting lower. The suggestion was that based on the lore, and my recent experiences playing as Crooked Moon, that the leadership stat alone seemed low compared to other units. Goblin leadership is 50, where Night Goblins were at 36 prior to the update. If you had read 8th edition you would know that this large of a difference contradicts the lore(1). As I also said I can just mod the leadership stat to whatever I want, this isn't about me, this is about the overall balance of the game.

(1) Warhammer Armies: Orc and Goblins (8th Edition) pg. 52

Chatapp

Sorry but even the quote from 8th doesn't really make them a disciplined force (or even superior to other gobbos). It just says that they can be so many to be an issue (and the Dwarfs know that very well), even states that it's an unstable horde.
Descriptions are also often somewhat hyperbolic in praising the object at hand (like, in the same book, I remember how it was described in detail of how Gromm steamrolled everything, hardly a word on how Eltharion then made everyone pay for that).

More tangible is that NGobbos have a lower Ld stat than both the other kinds of Goblins. You can't ignore that.
Until they can bring in specific Hatred rules (in their case, only towards Dwarfs), they are still an option with their poison attacks. Or just for fun.

HermannTheCherusci

Cataph said:

Sorry but even the quote from 8th doesn't really make them a disciplined force (or even superior to other gobbos). It just says that they can be so many to be an issue (and the Dwarfs know that very well), even states that it's an unstable horde.
Descriptions are also often somewhat hyperbolic in praising the object at hand (like, in the same book, I remember how it was described in detail of how Gromm steamrolled everything, hardly a word on how Eltharion then made everyone pay for that).

More tangible is that NGobbos have a lower Ld stat than both the other kinds of Goblins. You can't ignore that.
Until they can bring in specific Hatred rules (in their case, only towards Dwarfs), they are still an option with their poison attacks. Or just for fun.

"Though they are considered slightly smaller, scrawnier and much more cowardly then even the average Goblin, what they lack in size and stature they make up for with sheer psychotic abandonment(1). When a leader arises who is both sneaky and cunning enough to focus the boundless energy and spite of the Night Goblins, he can wield their numbers as a formidable, if unstable horde. When the tribes are called to war, the mountains are littered with holes, each issuing forth a steady procession of cackling, black-hooded Goblins. Horrible high-pitched shrieks issue forth from the caves as does the unpleasant smell of Fungus Beer and mouldy rot. The army clusters in the shadows, gathering in mobs beneath their tribal banners.

Should the moon emerge to light the vales, it would reveal a nightmare, as a teeming mass of Night Goblins swarm out of their hideouts and fall upon the hated surface-dwellers. Night Goblins are especially cowardly creatures, but unlike those of other Goblin tribes, they have been known to create and consume an intoxicating brew called Fungus Beer, which enables them to fight in a near maniacal state, where they are completely insane and paranoid, and would enhance a Night Goblins senses and reflexes, enabling them to fight far better against other stronger foe. Perhaps it is the lack of sunlight or the proximity of so much dank mould and mushroom, but Night Goblins produce more bulging-eyed lunatics than all the other Goblin tribes combined. Equipped with a variety of weapons such as nets, crude spears, and composite bows, these Night Goblins are ferocious night and tunnel-fighters(2)."


(1)Warhammer Armies: Orc and Goblins (8th Edition) pg. 11

(2)Warhammer Armies: Orc and Goblins (8th Edition) pg. 52


The suggestion I was making had Night Goblin leadership lower than "..the other kinds of Goblins.", as you put it.
So clearly not ignoring anything. As for Night Goblins not being as disciplined as other Gobbos, this would normally be the case. Night Goblins rarely fight as a disciplined force, except for in the above stated case in the lore. Instead they use guerilla tactics and disappear into the darkness of the underway. However, when they do form up as a full force, you know like in every battle of the campaign, then their level of discipline compared to other Goblins would arguably be the same or higher. The same or higher wasn't even what I was suggesting though.

To be clear Night Goblins are not unplayable, not just for fun. They seem out of balance due to this one stat is all. After gaining XP, acquiring various buffs like Squig Mascot, Shroom Gathera, and Big Un' Bullies then leadership is high enough to play the game comfortably. I've conquered the map several times using the classic Crooked Moon army composition. Patch 2 bumped up Night Goblin leadership from 36 to 40, my suggestion was this should have probably been another +4.