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Anyone else disgusted by enemy routing units returning to battle?

Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Registered Users Posts: 1,583
I'm getting so **** off at enemy units routing from battles and then returning back to the battle. Especially in large scale battles. Its like i'm **** fighting off endless wave of enemies and it is starting to seriously **** me off. Anyone else experiencing the same frustration?
How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

Also, please slow down combat!




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Comments

  • konokonokonokono Registered Users Posts: 299
    Why? That's part of the game.

    Here's a hint that I learned though, not sure if you know. "Broken" means they can rally and come back. "Shattered" means they won't return. It can help to know which units to keep an eye on and which you don't have to worry about anymore.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,991
    That's been a normal thing for both Warhammer and Total War forever... They come back with weakened morale (normally... they get bugged sometimes). You can pursue them when they break or fire into them as they flee to shatter them or wipe them out.
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,175
    Just shatter them and you'll be fine.
    "The dog is a peasant and the cat is a gentleman." H.P. Lovecraft
  • scfs123scfs123 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 971
    edited August 2016
    Bit more realistic tho no?

    120 man squad, hit in flank sides, cannon fire, LETS RUN.....oh hey...theres still like 60 of us..and our buds are dying..yeah lets go fight some more!!!

    If you chase them, they run off the board and never rally.
    If you charge them while they are broken, they'll shatter and never return.

    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    if you're a dwarf player and it's greenskins that are giving you an issue, which is the only case where i can remember this not being less frustrating than most of the other total war games, you really need to have at least 5-6 quarreler units
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • Galvanized IronGalvanized Iron Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,058
    edited August 2016
    Yes, how dare they? Filthy dogs!!!

    Anyway CA increased the thresholds for rallying last update, so I figure they haven't yet found the balance they are happy with.
    |Sith|Lord|Galvanized Iron
  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,549
    edited August 2016
    Keep in mind that some races I thought were supposed to rally more often, like orcs break and rally a lot while dwarfs tend will break less but tend to be so beaten down that they don't reform more than once or twice.

    At least that's my understanding.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,925
    Keep some sort of light cavalry units or equivalent in your armies to chase down broken units to make sure they shatter and leave the battle for good.
    ò_ó
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 462
    Spending 300 gold in a fast cheap unit like wolves could mean the difference between win or loose.
    "Flying units felt like cheating" -Alisdair Jarrold, CA Lead Battle designer (may 2016)
  • Nyanko73Nyanko73 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,351
    edited August 2016
    Coming back 3 times is a bit too much in my opinion. That's why I use the Proper Combat mod which tweaks it down to 2.

    Team Yennefer

    "A blinding flash materialised into a transparent sphere, and inside it loomed a shape, assuming contours and shapes at frightening speed. Dandelion recognised it at once. He knew those wild, black curls and the obsidian star on a velvet ribbon. What he didn’t know and had never seen before was the face. It was a face of rage and fury, the face of the goddess of vengeance, destruction and death." - Time of contempt
  • odsy2odsy2 Registered Users Posts: 716
    It really irritated me at first but you get used to it after a while. You just gotta have a unit of something fast to make sure they don't come back. Or just hold for a chain rout. A flying unit works well to chase thing down , a little love tap from franz and it just makes sure they're gone for good
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,693
    edited August 2016
    Hardly endless, they can usually only return to the fight once. The second time they break, they shatter. it's a pretty neat mechanic. Very close battle in which a new battle line forms up by rallying your battered units for a last time are my favorite.
    i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
    Geforce gtx 970
    16gb ram

    Team Skaven
  • GrandChamp89GrandChamp89 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,557

    I'm getting so **** off at enemy units routing from battles and then returning back to the battle. Especially in large scale battles. Its like i'm **** fighting off endless wave of enemies and it is starting to seriously **** me off. Anyone else experiencing the same frustration?

    Routing units will likely return..

    It's when I let units go that's "broken" that return to the fight after a quick route that's a little annoying.
    "It's the hottest fire that forge the strongest steel"
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 21,146
    I wouldn't change how it is to be honest. Orks break and return a lot but they're orks so that's how they should be, VC don't route, dwarves don't really route either, empire does but less than orks so that's fine, chaos tend to route once and once only.

    Don't see the issue.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • petertel123petertel123 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 861
    git gud
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Dark Elves
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,694
    Change of heart...

    "Hey we are losing... lets run..."

    When they look back...

    "Hey, our comrades are dying out there, Wait! Look! The enemy are are getting killed, we might still win, lets help them..."

  • RavenTheWargamerRavenTheWargamer Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 154
    In principal units rallying is a good thing, but it's just insane right now.

    Units will keep coming back basically until they're annihilated, leading to battles where you're constantly getting flanked by small squadrons of men returning to the fight. Or worse, in city battles a small group will rout -into- your city and start capturing the zone behind you when they recover.

    They should make it so units automatically shatter and don't rally if they rout with 30% of their soldiers or less. Right now its just ridiculous, and leads to way too many indecisive battles where both armies are just almost entirely destroyed.
  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    edited August 2016
    Itharus said:

    That's been a normal thing for both Warhammer and Total War forever... They come back with weakened morale (normally... they get bugged sometimes). You can pursue them when they break or fire into them as they flee to shatter them or wipe them out.

    Not true. Broken units even reduced over 50% returning suddenly has only been around since Attila. Trust me I played Rome 2, Empire and MW2 lately and they all dont have that mechanic. Sure units with over 50% strength sometimes stop routing but only after a while.
    krunsh said:

    Hardly endless, they can usually only return to the fight once. The second time they break, they shatter. it's a pretty neat mechanic. Very close battle in which a new battle line forms up by rallying your battered units for a last time are my favorite.

    Strange... pretty sure they can return as often as they want. Are you sure that isnt the mechanic of Shogun 2 where units first break then shatter? I have seen units broken several time for sure in TW warhammer....

    Generally though not a lot of units flee and come back. Most units take far too much damage before fleeing so they dont really return but then you have some battles where even 10 guys constantly rally - try to get into melee but flee again only to rally again a few seconds later. Just like OP I cant stand that...
    Its mostly battles where the enemy has a lot of skirmishers behind the lines and outnumbers you.
    This also keeps you from getting those mass routes victories earlier TW were famous for.
    In Rome 2 it is perfectly normal to only lose 20% of your guys in a huge battle and the enemy mostly routing/being captured just because you got a mass route through clever encirclement...
    havent seen that in 80 hours of warhammer TW once... Every battle between fullstacks is a bloodpath with moshpit in the middle. You never lose either but simply making the enemy route through one huge clever move isnt happening either.
    scfs123 said:

    Bit more realistic tho no?

    120 man squad, hit in flank sides, cannon fire, LETS RUN.....oh hey...theres still like 60 of us..and our buds are dying..yeah lets go fight some more!!!

    If you chase them, they run off the board and never rally.
    If you charge them while they are broken, they'll shatter and never return.


    Wow this triggered me... XD How about you look for a random battle at wikipedia and tell me which army continued fighting after losing 50% of their troops....
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    How about fighting a real battle in real life with actual lives at stake not being the same as dwarfs and orcs fighting in a strategy video game, haha
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    "Sir the remaining zombies have thrown down their weapons and are willing to negotiate surrender terms"

    "Excellent, see that they are treated well, we may be chaos warriors but the Geneva convention applies to us all equally"
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • Galvanized IronGalvanized Iron Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,058
    edited August 2016
    boyfights said:

    "Sir the remaining zombies have thrown down their weapons and are willing to negotiate surrender terms"

    "Excellent, see that they are treated well, we may be chaos warriors but the Geneva convention applies to us all equally"

    "Boss, da runts run fro' our moighty Waaagh! Shallz I orda da boys to run 'em down?"

    "No ya git! Da convention saez dey naw non-kombat boyz. Our crazy shaman sayned dat damn paper dat humie git brought uz"

    "You sure iz smart boss!"
    |Sith|Lord|Galvanized Iron
  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Registered Users Posts: 1,583
    edited August 2016
    Right, so I'm all calm again after a good night sleep.

    I'm already doing as some of you guys advised by chasing down routing units. However to make sure that routing (Broken) units become shattered take too much time in my opinnion. By the time a unit gets shattered during my gameplay, enemy units are already very near the battlefield border and then I have to sent back my units all the way back to where the battle is taking place which takes too much precious time.

    Secondly, when I don't do the above mentioned tactic, the enemy units seem like they just can't get shattered after routing. They keep comming back to the fight. Most of my large scale battles play out like this

    1. Two very large armies about to clash in a nice formation

    2. The fight begins where front lines meet eachother. So far the battle is very very enjoyable. Reminds me somehow of medieval 2.

    3. first units start to route and get broken. They scatter in all directions . Sometimes I chase them but most of the time I don't because I just HAVE to bring these units to flank and encircle the enemy front line. Because chasing units is just a waste of units and takes to much time to shatter compared to previous titles ( I din't play Atilla, Start playing since Rome I).

    4. Routing units stop running away and get back into the fight. Because they are scattered into all directions. They always seem to be in a circle around me and start to swarm me.

    5. I won the main fight, all the enemy units have routed atleast once but are still returning. Battle is not over yet because the previous units that got broken are still in the fight.

    (Just for clarification. This is how I experience this phase of the battle. Imagine this time around 3 units: Spearmen, Swordman and greatswords. I'm fighting each unit one at a time. I first route the spearmen, I then fight the swordsman, when I'm starting to engage the greatswords, the spearmen return from routing, I beat the greatswords, the swordsman returning from routing and meanwhile I'm fighting spearmen again. I win against the Spearnmen and then the greatswords stop routing again and i'm fighting the swordmanso on.

    Its very hard and difficult to break this circle if it never stops. At this point the battle becomes very very tedious. It doesn't really happen in small battles, but in larger battles this is very noticable.)


    7. Battlefield starts to change in a big **** being surrounded from all directions. Spamming units to chase routing units and then I lose because of this.




    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 1,986
    No, I like it. Firstly, it is realistic - a unit that is taking casualties would often retreat, reform and then reengage the enemy from a more advantageous position. Secondly, battles are already a little shorter than I'd like. The fact that routing units can return helps extend the fight a little longer.
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    It would be helpful to know what faction you're using, but the answer is almost certainly using more fast units or more quarrelers for dwarfs
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    Prioritizing killing the enemy general is helpful too, but if you can't catch and finish regular units then you probably still need more fast or ranged stuff
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Registered Users Posts: 1,583
    boyfights said:

    It would be helpful to know what faction you're using, but the answer is almost certainly using more fast units or more quarrelers for dwarfs

    At the moment I'm playing as the Beastman. When I flipped out and wrote this topic I was fighting against the Empire with both both enemy generals killed
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • Galvanized IronGalvanized Iron Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,058
    edited August 2016
    Actually it is better to just devastate their remaining units. Then they will all run once "army losses" kicks in.

    Even undamaged units will run if you do enough damage to the rest of the army.
    |Sith|Lord|Galvanized Iron
  • TzarkenTzarken Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 24
    edited August 2016

    Right, so I'm all calm again after a good night sleep.

    I'm already doing as some of you guys advised by chasing down routing units. However to make sure that routing (Broken) units become shattered take too much time in my opinnion. By the time a unit gets shattered during my gameplay, enemy units are already very near the battlefield border and then I have to sent back my units all the way back to where the battle is taking place which takes too much precious time.

    Secondly, when I don't do the above mentioned tactic, the enemy units seem like they just can't get shattered after routing. They keep comming back to the fight. Most of my large scale battles play out like this

    1. Two very large armies about to clash in a nice formation

    2. The fight begins where front lines meet eachother. So far the battle is very very enjoyable. Reminds me somehow of medieval 2.

    3. first units start to route and get broken. They scatter in all directions . Sometimes I chase them but most of the time I don't because I just HAVE to bring these units to flank and encircle the enemy front line. Because chasing units is just a waste of units and takes to much time to shatter compared to previous titles ( I din't play Atilla, Start playing since Rome I).

    4. Routing units stop running away and get back into the fight. Because they are scattered into all directions. They always seem to be in a circle around me and start to swarm me.

    5. I won the main fight, all the enemy units have routed atleast once but are still returning. Battle is not over yet because the previous units that got broken are still in the fight.

    (Just for clarification. This is how I experience this phase of the battle. Imagine this time around 3 units: Spearmen, Swordman and greatswords. I'm fighting each unit one at a time. I first route the spearmen, I then fight the swordsman, when I'm starting to engage the greatswords, the spearmen return from routing, I beat the greatswords, the swordsman returning from routing and meanwhile I'm fighting spearmen again. I win against the Spearnmen and then the greatswords stop routing again and i'm fighting the swordmanso on.

    Its very hard and difficult to break this circle if it never stops. At this point the battle becomes very very tedious. It doesn't really happen in small battles, but in larger battles this is very noticable.)


    7. Battlefield starts to change in a big **** being surrounded from all directions. Spamming units to chase routing units and then I lose because of this.




    Which units are you using in your army? If you have no fast units, ofcourse you will have the problem you describe. You should always have AT LEAST 2 FAST UNITS for chasing routers and rear charges on the enemy line.

    ** after the first 15 - 20 turns.... have to be able to make them first, gyros are the dwarf version of this.
  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Registered Users Posts: 1,583
    Tzarken said:

    Right, so I'm all calm again after a good night sleep.

    I'm already doing as some of you guys advised by chasing down routing units. However to make sure that routing (Broken) units become shattered take too much time in my opinnion. By the time a unit gets shattered during my gameplay, enemy units are already very near the battlefield border and then I have to sent back my units all the way back to where the battle is taking place which takes too much precious time.

    Secondly, when I don't do the above mentioned tactic, the enemy units seem like they just can't get shattered after routing. They keep comming back to the fight. Most of my large scale battles play out like this

    1. Two very large armies about to clash in a nice formation

    2. The fight begins where front lines meet eachother. So far the battle is very very enjoyable. Reminds me somehow of medieval 2.

    3. first units start to route and get broken. They scatter in all directions . Sometimes I chase them but most of the time I don't because I just HAVE to bring these units to flank and encircle the enemy front line. Because chasing units is just a waste of units and takes to much time to shatter compared to previous titles ( I din't play Atilla, Start playing since Rome I).

    4. Routing units stop running away and get back into the fight. Because they are scattered into all directions. They always seem to be in a circle around me and start to swarm me.

    5. I won the main fight, all the enemy units have routed atleast once but are still returning. Battle is not over yet because the previous units that got broken are still in the fight.

    (Just for clarification. This is how I experience this phase of the battle. Imagine this time around 3 units: Spearmen, Swordman and greatswords. I'm fighting each unit one at a time. I first route the spearmen, I then fight the swordsman, when I'm starting to engage the greatswords, the spearmen return from routing, I beat the greatswords, the swordsman returning from routing and meanwhile I'm fighting spearmen again. I win against the Spearnmen and then the greatswords stop routing again and i'm fighting the swordmanso on.

    Its very hard and difficult to break this circle if it never stops. At this point the battle becomes very very tedious. It doesn't really happen in small battles, but in larger battles this is very noticable.)


    7. Battlefield starts to change in a big **** being surrounded from all directions. Spamming units to chase routing units and then I lose because of this.




    Which units are you using in your army? If you have no fast units, ofcourse you will have the problem you describe. You should always have AT LEAST 2 FAST UNITS for chasing routers and rear charges on the enemy line.

    ** after the first 15 - 20 turns.... have to be able to make them first, gyros are the dwarf version of this.
    Used 4 minotaurs with greatswords in this army. They move quite fast compared to smaller infantry
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • TzarkenTzarken Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 24

    Tzarken said:

    Right, so I'm all calm again after a good night sleep.

    I'm already doing as some of you guys advised by chasing down routing units. However to make sure that routing (Broken) units become shattered take too much time in my opinnion. By the time a unit gets shattered during my gameplay, enemy units are already very near the battlefield border and then I have to sent back my units all the way back to where the battle is taking place which takes too much precious time.

    Secondly, when I don't do the above mentioned tactic, the enemy units seem like they just can't get shattered after routing. They keep comming back to the fight. Most of my large scale battles play out like this

    1. Two very large armies about to clash in a nice formation

    2. The fight begins where front lines meet eachother. So far the battle is very very enjoyable. Reminds me somehow of medieval 2.

    3. first units start to route and get broken. They scatter in all directions . Sometimes I chase them but most of the time I don't because I just HAVE to bring these units to flank and encircle the enemy front line. Because chasing units is just a waste of units and takes to much time to shatter compared to previous titles ( I din't play Atilla, Start playing since Rome I).

    4. Routing units stop running away and get back into the fight. Because they are scattered into all directions. They always seem to be in a circle around me and start to swarm me.

    5. I won the main fight, all the enemy units have routed atleast once but are still returning. Battle is not over yet because the previous units that got broken are still in the fight.

    (Just for clarification. This is how I experience this phase of the battle. Imagine this time around 3 units: Spearmen, Swordman and greatswords. I'm fighting each unit one at a time. I first route the spearmen, I then fight the swordsman, when I'm starting to engage the greatswords, the spearmen return from routing, I beat the greatswords, the swordsman returning from routing and meanwhile I'm fighting spearmen again. I win against the Spearnmen and then the greatswords stop routing again and i'm fighting the swordmanso on.

    Its very hard and difficult to break this circle if it never stops. At this point the battle becomes very very tedious. It doesn't really happen in small battles, but in larger battles this is very noticable.)


    7. Battlefield starts to change in a big **** being surrounded from all directions. Spamming units to chase routing units and then I lose because of this.




    Which units are you using in your army? If you have no fast units, ofcourse you will have the problem you describe. You should always have AT LEAST 2 FAST UNITS for chasing routers and rear charges on the enemy line.

    ** after the first 15 - 20 turns.... have to be able to make them first, gyros are the dwarf version of this.
    Used 4 minotaurs with greatswords in this army. They move quite fast compared to smaller infantry
    hmm, endgame i had 6 minotaurs (2 of each) , 2 Greatsword centigors (really fast) and 1 chariot for fast units (was trying out the chariot)
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