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CA can you PLEASE fix Vlad's Sword?

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  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
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  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    @Canuovea I see Vlad fighting in Guts Style, from Berserk, Vlad is Master Swordsman but he do Not Playing Around much, he Clave Right Through anyone who is weaker then him, in most cases it's one hit one kill, and even multiply kills with one swing of His Greatsword, with his Superhuman Strength.

  • SephirexSephirex Right outside your windowRegistered Users Posts: 1,028
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    Guts?

    Tryndamere from League of Legends spins to win and swings a greatsword about like some kind of fool as well. It looks pretty silly.

    Maybe it fits the anime/manga style, but I could definitely do without that kind of thing in my Total War.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • GreyKnightDanteGreyKnightDante Registered Users Posts: 339
    edited September 2016
    Tayvar said:

    @Canuovea I see Vlad fighting in Guts Style, from Berserk, Vlad is Master Swordsman but he do Not Playing Around much, he Clave Right Through anyone who is weaker then him, in most cases it's one hit one kill, and even multiply kills with one swing of His Greatsword, with his Superhuman Strength.

    Vlad fights like a duelist in the books, not like a berserker.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Hello I am an admin from the Warhammer Wiki. Please feel free to give any suggestions on how to our improve at this forum thread here! ANY help or suggestions is welcomed!

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    @GreyKnightDante are you sure? I heard that Vlad get really angry from time to time. :)
  • GreyKnightDanteGreyKnightDante Registered Users Posts: 339
    edited September 2016
    Tayvar said:

    @GreyKnightDante are you sure? I heard that Vlad get really angry from time to time. :)

    In the Vampire Wars books, Vlad envisions himself a nobleman and fights as such like a duelist in combat. He fights just like Mannfred, whom he taught when he became a vampire. His techniques emphasis fluid and quick motion (like most Vampire swordsmen), not powerful, slow swipes like Guts.

    When he gets angry, he simply loses the fluid motion in his attacks. You won't see him carving through a score of men with a single swipe, BUT you will see him tear his opponents throat with his claws or bite down on his shoulders.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Hello I am an admin from the Warhammer Wiki. Please feel free to give any suggestions on how to our improve at this forum thread here! ANY help or suggestions is welcomed!

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    Sure, it is fantasy and I don't really expect realism to play too much of a role. Nonetheless, if we are talking realism, even with Vlad's strength and speed, I think a less insane sized sword would be better.

    The Mountain is huge, and a sword of that size still looks silly on him. Vlad could murder The Mountain with a toothpick if he wanted. Still, good point, Vlad would be a lot more fluid with one of those things.

    But I'm not entirely sure the animation could be made to look good... my concern in that department would be things like clipping. You know, like Archaon's helmet and his gorget (who can forget?). You'd have it sticking in the ground (especially when the terrain isn't uniform), clipping this, clipping that... etc. Okay, so maybe you could really work around that with enough studiousness in your animation department, but it is a lot of work for one inconvenient piece of cutlery.

    Though I do love the aesthetic of two handed swords, I like them in their proper place (being used with two hands). And yeah, as GreyKnightDante mentioned, Vlad is a skilled duelist, not a barbarian. While he attacks like everyone else, its a bit more elegant than I fear it would look like if he were using a giant twohander in one hand. Plus, I think the aesthetic of a sidesword fits the Vampire Count's own aesthetic a bit better, but that's personal preference.

    Though... if they were to make a two handed magic user animation, it could be neat to have Vlad use that. My objection is to Vlad using that thing one handed. If Vlad were to use it in a two handed fashion I'd be pretty happy with it.

    Also, thank you, I'm flattered. Setrus is pretty great for sure.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    edited September 2016
    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    Sure, it is fantasy and I don't really expect realism to play too much of a role. Nonetheless, if we are talking realism, even with Vlad's strength and speed, I think a less insane sized sword would be better.

    The Mountain is huge, and a sword of that size still looks silly on him. Vlad could murder The Mountain with a toothpick if he wanted. Still, good point, Vlad would be a lot more fluid with one of those things.

    But I'm not entirely sure the animation could be made to look good... my concern in that department would be things like clipping. You know, like Archaon's helmet and his gorget (who can forget?). You'd have it sticking in the ground (especially when the terrain isn't uniform), clipping this, clipping that... etc. Okay, so maybe you could really work around that with enough studiousness in your animation department, but it is a lot of work for one inconvenient piece of cutlery.

    Though I do love the aesthetic of two handed swords, I like them in their proper place (being used with two hands). And yeah, as GreyKnightDante mentioned, Vlad is a skilled duelist, not a barbarian. While he attacks like everyone else, its a bit more elegant than I fear it would look like if he were using a giant twohander in one hand. Plus, I think the aesthetic of a sidesword fits the Vampire Count's own aesthetic a bit better, but that's personal preference.

    Though... if they were to make a two handed magic user animation, it could be neat to have Vlad use that. My objection is to Vlad using that thing one handed. If Vlad were to use it in a two handed fashion I'd be pretty happy with it.

    Also, thank you, I'm flattered. Setrus is pretty great for sure.

    You know what might work? Make a new magic animation (like maybe he holds the sword above his head perpendicular to his torso like a

    T

    but he might have to hold one hand on the blade and one hand on the handle, or just one on the handle?
    )

    and he holds the large sword 2h otherwise just like the Greatswords, since their idle and marching stance I believe is quite good. Isn't it just a sort of "at the ready" stance where the sword doesn't move back and forth a whole lot?

    Or maybe he just holds his sword up to the sky when he's casting with both hands or whatever. Pretty simple actually?
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    Sure, it is fantasy and I don't really expect realism to play too much of a role. Nonetheless, if we are talking realism, even with Vlad's strength and speed, I think a less insane sized sword would be better.

    The Mountain is huge, and a sword of that size still looks silly on him. Vlad could murder The Mountain with a toothpick if he wanted. Still, good point, Vlad would be a lot more fluid with one of those things.

    But I'm not entirely sure the animation could be made to look good... my concern in that department would be things like clipping. You know, like Archaon's helmet and his gorget (who can forget?). You'd have it sticking in the ground (especially when the terrain isn't uniform), clipping this, clipping that... etc. Okay, so maybe you could really work around that with enough studiousness in your animation department, but it is a lot of work for one inconvenient piece of cutlery.

    Though I do love the aesthetic of two handed swords, I like them in their proper place (being used with two hands). And yeah, as GreyKnightDante mentioned, Vlad is a skilled duelist, not a barbarian. While he attacks like everyone else, its a bit more elegant than I fear it would look like if he were using a giant twohander in one hand. Plus, I think the aesthetic of a sidesword fits the Vampire Count's own aesthetic a bit better, but that's personal preference.

    Though... if they were to make a two handed magic user animation, it could be neat to have Vlad use that. My objection is to Vlad using that thing one handed. If Vlad were to use it in a two handed fashion I'd be pretty happy with it.

    Also, thank you, I'm flattered. Setrus is pretty great for sure.

    You know what might work? Make a new magic animation (like maybe he holds the sword above his head perpendicular to his torso like a

    T

    but he might have to hold one hand on the blade and one hand on the handle, or just one on the handle?
    )

    and he holds the large sword 2h otherwise just like the Greatswords, since their idle and marching stance I believe is quite good. Isn't it just a sort of "at the ready" stance where the sword doesn't move back and forth a whole lot?

    Or maybe he just holds his sword up to the sky when he's casting with both hands or whatever. Pretty simple actually?
    That would work just fine. Or they could have him release one hand and use that. So long as he's not swinging the sword at the same time it would be fine.
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    Sure, it is fantasy and I don't really expect realism to play too much of a role. Nonetheless, if we are talking realism, even with Vlad's strength and speed, I think a less insane sized sword would be better.

    The Mountain is huge, and a sword of that size still looks silly on him. Vlad could murder The Mountain with a toothpick if he wanted. Still, good point, Vlad would be a lot more fluid with one of those things.

    But I'm not entirely sure the animation could be made to look good... my concern in that department would be things like clipping. You know, like Archaon's helmet and his gorget (who can forget?). You'd have it sticking in the ground (especially when the terrain isn't uniform), clipping this, clipping that... etc. Okay, so maybe you could really work around that with enough studiousness in your animation department, but it is a lot of work for one inconvenient piece of cutlery.

    Though I do love the aesthetic of two handed swords, I like them in their proper place (being used with two hands). And yeah, as GreyKnightDante mentioned, Vlad is a skilled duelist, not a barbarian. While he attacks like everyone else, its a bit more elegant than I fear it would look like if he were using a giant twohander in one hand. Plus, I think the aesthetic of a sidesword fits the Vampire Count's own aesthetic a bit better, but that's personal preference.

    Though... if they were to make a two handed magic user animation, it could be neat to have Vlad use that. My objection is to Vlad using that thing one handed. If Vlad were to use it in a two handed fashion I'd be pretty happy with it.

    Also, thank you, I'm flattered. Setrus is pretty great for sure.

    You know what might work? Make a new magic animation (like maybe he holds the sword above his head perpendicular to his torso like a

    T

    but he might have to hold one hand on the blade and one hand on the handle, or just one on the handle?
    )

    and he holds the large sword 2h otherwise just like the Greatswords, since their idle and marching stance I believe is quite good. Isn't it just a sort of "at the ready" stance where the sword doesn't move back and forth a whole lot?

    Or maybe he just holds his sword up to the sky when he's casting with both hands or whatever. Pretty simple actually?
    That would work just fine. Or they could have him release one hand and use that. So long as he's not swinging the sword at the same time it would be fine.
    Ideally that wouldn't be allowed as tbh, that is slightly powerful (I don't know how strong it actually might make hybrid spellcasters / melee users) but it seems like it'd be quite powerful.

    Anyways, yea good stuff.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • theedge634theedge634 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,775
    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    I don't know if it's even about the aesthetics though. Vlad's TT model has a MUCH larger sword than his pictures. I would say it's more about which "Vlad" you want, the TT exaggerated one, or the one from the lore pictures. Granted CA hasn't done a perfect job of giving us either... but I'm not quite sure I see the draw of giving him a greatsword, not a single actual picture has him wielding such a large sword... it's all based off the over exaggeration of the TT model, the same could be said of Konrad's TT in comparison to his pictures.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    Canuovea said:

    Guts?

    Tryndamere from League of Legends spins to win and swings a greatsword about like some kind of fool as well. It looks pretty silly.

    Maybe it fits the anime/manga style, but I could definitely do without that kind of thing in my Total War.

    It looks pretty silly? you know what looks silly? to have medieval character who use short weapon, even though he don't use shield or anything else in his other hand, it's obvious that Vlad tend to use this sword with two hands, that's why is sword have an long handle, greatswords was used in real life, so how is that not realistic to you?
  • SephirexSephirex Right outside your windowRegistered Users Posts: 1,028
    edited September 2016
    Keep calm. Getting worked up is just going to make this thread fall apart again.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    There are plenty of reasons to fight with a single handed sword in one hand and an empty one in the other. Especially with a gauntlet. Especially for a vampire. You can fight and cast spells at the same time (not in TWW of course, thankfully). You can grapple easier, which for a vampire is good since it gets you close enough to take a bite. Not to mention, a vampire's hand is going to be pretty darn dangerous on its own anyway. A vampire can rip a shield from a man's arm (taking the arm with it perhaps), etc. So a lot of the reasons a human would take a dagger or shield or whatnot simply don't apply to vampires.

    Like so:

    https://images.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=http://belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/vlad.jpg&u=http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/vlad.jpg

    And most of the images of Vlad I can find have him holding that sword in one hand. There is also no mention in the rulebook of Blood Drinker being a greatsword. And yes, Vampire Lords can take greatswords instead of their hand weapons.
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  • AvadonAvadon Registered Users Posts: 1,543
    Tayvar said:

    Canuovea said:

    Guts?

    Tryndamere from League of Legends spins to win and swings a greatsword about like some kind of fool as well. It looks pretty silly.

    Maybe it fits the anime/manga style, but I could definitely do without that kind of thing in my Total War.

    It looks pretty silly? you know what looks silly? to have medieval character who use short weapon, even though he don't use shield or anything else in his other hand, it's obvious that Vlad tend to use this sword with two hands, that's why is sword have an long handle, greatswords was used in real life, so how is that not realistic to you?

    CA could have recycled the various animations from the empire GS units........

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    I want to be clear. If they had made Vlad have a greatsword, that would be fine, so long as he had his own magic casting animation. But I don't think he'd be using it one handed.
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  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    edited September 2016

    what if vlad.. didnd't use a sword.. at all..

    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,596
    Actually, reading the book, apparently Vlad could go into a berserk rage if his designs were thwarted, and generally had a nasty temper anyway. I imagine this would make him more a duelist most of the time, but prone to fits of rage where he could get rather violent.
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  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    Canuovea said:

    I want to be clear. If they had made Vlad have a greatsword, that would be fine, so long as he had his own magic casting animation. But I don't think he'd be using it one handed.

    What do you mean by "I don't think he'd be using it one handed"? first thing, Vlad can hold his big sword in one hand while he casting spells, second thing, maybe Vlad could cast spells even both of this hands occupied, if Mannfred can do it, then Vlad can do it as well.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    I don't know if it's even about the aesthetics though. Vlad's TT model has a MUCH larger sword than his pictures. I would say it's more about which "Vlad" you want, the TT exaggerated one, or the one from the lore pictures. Granted CA hasn't done a perfect job of giving us either... but I'm not quite sure I see the draw of giving him a greatsword, not a single actual picture has him wielding such a large sword... it's all based off the over exaggeration of the TT model, the same could be said of Konrad's TT in comparison to his pictures.
    Just a quick clarification, I'm not sure if I used the wrong word but by "aesthetics" I mean exactly that: do you prefer a 1h sword, a slightly larger one, or a 2h sword? I realize it's not necessarily aesthetics in the technical sense but when you have a model / miniature (in a video game, in the TT, whatever) and you change ANYTHING about it, it is actually an aesthetic change as well.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • theedge634theedge634 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,775
    Seldkam said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Seldkam said:

    Canuovea said:

    Kayosiv said:

    Canuovea said:

    I agree that the Table Top sword is absolutely ridiculous. It is simply too big to work as realistic. But I can see why people want the TWW sword a bit longer (and I'd kinda agree a tad).

    The guy's is likely 10 times as strong as a normal man. Having a silly big sword to take advantage of it, especially if its magical, seems to make logical sense.

    If you're strong an never tire, why not have a huge reach and weight bonus when fighting?
    Because its not actually that useful. Using that monstrosity in one hand will be difficult. You are going to clip things, hit the ground, have trouble with the bind... and so on. Not to mention the super long grip is going to get caught on your arm or other things. Whereas with a lighter, already magical, sword you're going to be even faster and have far better control.

    Seriously, its just as ridiculous in its own way as that paddleboard the older model uses in the picture that boyfights just posted.

    So I'm glad that CA have downplayed it... but they may have done so just a bit too much.
    I'd like to point out that in my limited knowledge of swords, larger ones don't actually perform quite as slowly as one would think, it's more a matter of how it's being used. Also the whole it might get caught on something is a weird point considering how Vlad has probably had countless times to figure out how NOT to do that.

    Again, flailing around the sword might lend itself to your point but the problem with that there's not very much evidence detailing how Vlad fights, huh? If he fights like a beast then yep, you're right. If he fights how i would imagine, a mix of HEMA (think sword martial arts of the western style based on actual codexes) then there's very little way to go wrong since he wouldn't need to move the sword through enemies to kill them. Efficient but small slashes, cuts and almost rapier like thrusts with longer reach is very deadly, just look at the olde spear.


    TLDR
    Basically using 2h swords isn't nearly as cumbersome as one may think lol.
    Using two handed swords in two hands is not cumbersome at all, they can be very quick, sometimes faster than single handed swords too because of leverage from the grip (sometimes). But we're talking about using a two handed sword in one hand.

    If you watch The Mountain in Game of Thrones try to use a greatsword in one hand... it looks oversized and cumbersome even on him and that guy is something like seven plus feet tall. Watching someone of Vlad's statue swing that thing around would be comical at best.

    Point is, Vlad can be fast and strong with greatsword in one hand? Maybe, he's Vlad, but he could be faster and stronger with a more realistically sized sword in one hand. A longsword I could buy, a Zweihander? No, too much for me.

    And yes, he would be stronger with a shorter sword. He doesn't need to rely on the weight of the Greatsword to do his work for him! Its magical and he's super strong! Furthermore, no matter how strong he is, if someone binds that thing far enough from Vlad's guard, he's getting nowhere with it. In that situation the length is a weakness. And yes, he could work to get better with such a huge sword, but why would he when it offers no benefits?
    Yea... but that's not really my point. The GoT reference is sort of debunked by your next paragraph since The Mountain isn't Vlad. And sadly this is where we have to throw up our hands and stop using evidence.

    I'll just say that is it REALLY worth having Vlad's sword appear as a 1h sword so it can appear slightly faster than a 2h sword? Especially since in the game, the animation can simply be MADE to look good with a 2h sword. Granted, I don't know that for sure, but considering the other ludicrously large weapons we have in the game it would definitely work. Remember we're not using sync kills here, at least not most of the time. We're actually using a generic "approximation" hitbox if anything. Most swings from models in TWWH don't actually hit their target, which might make things even better if the Vlad's got a 2h sword to make it look just a tad more like his sword actually does reach the target.

    Don't get me wrong though, I understand how important a second or even a fraction of one can be in a fight, I don't think one even needs to be a swordsman to see how important time is in such fights.

    I think you'll agree with me on this though, that altogether, it's a matter of if you like the aesthetic of a 2h sword, and the baggage that comes along with it. If it's too big, some people (I believe like yourself, correct me if I'm wrong) would cringe if the animation is too fast or it simply is swung in a wild way unbefitting of someone like Vlad, or any professional / experienced fighter.

    For me, as you might imagine, realism means practically nothing when it comes to fantasy, so the 2h sword works just fine I think.

    I'd like to say it's a pleasure talking with you mate. Probably one of the only other people on the forums who I genuinely like talking to besides Setrus... (you don't think I'd forget our friendly neighborhood "Mr.Polite"?
    I don't know if it's even about the aesthetics though. Vlad's TT model has a MUCH larger sword than his pictures. I would say it's more about which "Vlad" you want, the TT exaggerated one, or the one from the lore pictures. Granted CA hasn't done a perfect job of giving us either... but I'm not quite sure I see the draw of giving him a greatsword, not a single actual picture has him wielding such a large sword... it's all based off the over exaggeration of the TT model, the same could be said of Konrad's TT in comparison to his pictures.
    Just a quick clarification, I'm not sure if I used the wrong word but by "aesthetics" I mean exactly that: do you prefer a 1h sword, a slightly larger one, or a 2h sword? I realize it's not necessarily aesthetics in the technical sense but when you have a model / miniature (in a video game, in the TT, whatever) and you change ANYTHING about it, it is actually an aesthetic change as well.
    Yea, I get what you mean, but I think that I was under the assumption that you were following the notion that there is a predefined aesthetic for Vlad that is universally shown and agreed upon. Yet I feel as though actually determining which version of Vlad is most appropriate for porting to TWWH is still very much in debate.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    @theedge634 considering that all other vampires in Total War who good at melee are having something in both of their hands, it's still looks silly for Vlad to use only one hand in a fight, even if "his claws" was better then a weapon or a shield, also Vlad's claws are not present in his Total War Model as well.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 36,690
    Closed at OP's request.

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