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About diplomacy

corvocorvo Junior MemberSpainPosts: 952Registered Users
edited September 2016 in General Discussion
English isn't my language, so sorry for the mistakes. I hope you understand what I mean in this thread.

I hope that in the upcoming titles, CA decides to finally make it less tedious diplomacy.
I do not mean to bad AI, I mean those occasions where you want to negotiate

+ Nonaggression pact
+ Trade agreement
+ Amount of money

and then, AI rejects everything that does not seem enough money.

we are supposed to negotiate, if I want to try again need to re-click again on every option to offer a little more. (Sometimes you'll have to repeat several times).

There should be a button for ask to AI exactly how much want for these terms,
or simply add a points system, like paradox games.


Am I the only one who thinks this?
Team Warriors of Chaos



"Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

- Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times

Comments

  • PancakesPancakes Posts: 62Registered Users
    you can always just wait a turn until relations improve.
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    Zetayoshi said:

    you can always just wait a turn until relations improve.

    I do not mean that AI reject the terms, or having to offer more money, I mean that whenever rejects a treaty, I have to re-click on each option.
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • AstraeusAstraeus Member BrittonisPosts: 225Registered Users
    "likelihood of success" does this for you?

    High = accept, moderate = chance of success, low = rejection.

    You only have to change one element as you negiotiate towards high, not click all of them as you suggest.
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 577Registered Users
    Astraeus said:

    "likelihood of success" does this for you?

    High = accept, moderate = chance of success, low = rejection.

    You only have to change one element as you negiotiate towards high, not click all of them as you suggest.

    It would still be nice if the AI would come with a counter-proposal that's actually related to what you're asking for. Especially if there is a moderate chance of the AI accepting your proposal.
    My Total War wishlist:

    1: Reformation: Total War
    2: Victoria: Total War
    3: Dark Age: Total War
  • AetaosRauKeresAetaosRauKeres Posts: 327Registered Users
    edited September 2016
    Astraeus said:

    "likelihood of success" does this for you?

    High = accept, moderate = chance of success, low = rejection.

    You only have to change one element as you negiotiate towards high, not click all of them as you suggest.

    you can get a aggrement with moderate.
    After i proposed several times, each time with more money.

    Op is right, they should just tell me how much money they want. Sometimes they do a counter proposal
  • TotalWarChakaxTotalWarChakax Posts: 492Registered Users
    Dreagon said:

    Astraeus said:

    "likelihood of success" does this for you?

    High = accept, moderate = chance of success, low = rejection.

    You only have to change one element as you negiotiate towards high, not click all of them as you suggest.

    It would still be nice if the AI would come with a counter-proposal that's actually related to what you're asking for. Especially if there is a moderate chance of the AI accepting your proposal.
    they do that
  • tgoodenowtgoodenow Senior Member Posts: 387Registered Users
    The diplomacy in this game is non existent for the AI. I barely see alliances, trade agreements, or non-aggression pacts. It really kills replay ability. I wish they would increase the values for being at war, being friends of friends, assistance in battle, etc.
  • TotalWarChakaxTotalWarChakax Posts: 492Registered Users
    tgoodenow said:

    The diplomacy in this game is non existent for the AI. I barely see alliances, trade agreements, or non-aggression pacts. It really kills replay ability. I wish they would increase the values for being at war, being friends of friends, assistance in battle, etc.

    They have it when i play................
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    What Im saying is this:



    in stellaris, (like most paradox's games) if the number is green, (>0) you know that AI will gonna accepts your offer, if is red (<0), they not, is pretty simple, and the hud, permit to add another offer or change it without the need of start from scratch.

    now in total war, "yellow hand" means mostly "give me money" especially in harder difficulties. there is a giant list of offers (break trade, alliances etc) and everytime that AI reject some treaty, the list will clean. that is the problem. all we have to click in every offer, just for change some money.
    Team Warriors of Chaos

    imagehttp://puu.sh/ur8fj/e6fba2ec54.jpg" alt="" />

    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Posts: 2,027Registered Users
    yeah this is one of my few pet peeves with total war, it would be nice even if a declined offer left the terms on the table with a +/- option on the money, instead of having to go through and add all of the terms again with a little more money every time until you get what you want
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    boyfights said:

    yeah this is one of my few pet peeves with total war, it would be nice even if a declined offer left the terms on the table with a +/- option on the money, instead of having to go through and add all of the terms again with a little more money every time until you get what you want

    finally I have explained well :D
    Team Warriors of Chaos

    imagehttp://puu.sh/ur8fj/e6fba2ec54.jpg" alt="" />

    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Posts: 2,027Registered Users
    i understood your original post perfectly, your english is very good :)

    i've always found that part of diplomacy annoying, in attila the first turn you built a dock could take 20 minutes to negotiate the best trade deals and treaties with all of the other tribes haha
  • Bel_IsarBel_Isar Posts: 556Registered Users
    boyfights said:

    i understood your original post perfectly, your english is very good :)

    i've always found that part of diplomacy annoying, in attila the first turn you built a dock could take 20 minutes to negotiate the best trade deals and treaties with all of the other tribes haha

    And than suddendly you get declared War by some Desert-Nomads on the other side of the World, because why not? ^^

    Diplomacy never realy worked well in total war. I always have the impression, the AI doesn´t play to win or to give us a belivable world but to kill the player. But giving the player feedback, why the AI doesn´t accept a trade or why it doesn´t like you would help.
  • tgoodenowtgoodenow Senior Member Posts: 387Registered Users

    tgoodenow said:

    The diplomacy in this game is non existent for the AI. I barely see alliances, trade agreements, or non-aggression pacts. It really kills replay ability. I wish they would increase the values for being at war, being friends of friends, assistance in battle, etc.

    They have it when i play................
    screenshots , please
  • TotalWarChakaxTotalWarChakax Posts: 492Registered Users
    corvo said:

    What Im saying is this:

    imagehttp://puu.sh/r2hAD/59e09faca3.jpg" alt="" />

    in stellaris, (like most paradox's games) if the number is green, (>0) you know that AI will gonna accepts your offer, if is red (<0), they not, is pretty simple, and the hud, permit to add another offer or change it without the need of start from scratch.

    now in total war, "yellow hand" means mostly "give me money" especially in harder difficulties. there is a giant list of offers (break trade, alliances etc) and everytime that AI reject some treaty, the list will clean. that is the problem. all we have to click in every offer, just for change some money.</p>

    would rather want them spend time on patches, dlc and expansions
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    edited September 2016
    boyfights said:

    i understood your original post perfectly, your english is very good :)

    thx, haha :)
    Bel_Isar said:


    And than suddendly you get declared War by some Desert-Nomads on the other side of the World, because why not? ^^

    Diplomacy never realy worked well in total war. I always have the impression, the AI doesn´t play to win or to give us a belivable world but to kill the player. But giving the player feedback, why the AI doesn´t accept a trade or why it doesn´t like you would help.

    THIS^

    I don't know if AI ever played to win. in "Total War: Shogun" I think they could get the shogunate. and I think in "Medieval Total War" sometimes appeared a warning that some faction was about to achieve their goals, but from Empire Total war, I think the main target of the AI is fighting with the player, simply.

    And why not accept trade agreements ?! xD is supposed to be beneficial to both!
    Post edited by corvo on
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • DayollDayoll Posts: 63Registered Users
    corvo said:

    some faction was about to achieve their goals, but from Empire Total war, I think the main target of the AI is fighting with the player, simply.

    And why not accept trade agreements ?! xD is supposed to be beneficial to both!


    I think the problem is here. If you're right (might need some clarification from CA about the AI behavior or some modders), the diplomacy will always be **** up for you on higher difficulties.
    If the AI is trying to kill you, and not doing is own objectives, this is a main reason why the diplomacy is just that bad. They have no goals other that reject your offers, most of the time, and **** you off till the end OR till you are strong enough so that they remain silent for you to confederate (or kill them freely).

    The bad diplomacy can be seen mostly on Dwarf and Empire campaigns (as for Orks, well they fight each other all the time; so no problem here for me). But Reikland helps Wissenland getting rid of Averland and all their other enemies, they love you at 100+, you try to trade, or some non-agression pact : NOP BUDDY !

    Miss Med II diplomacy..
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    edited September 2016
    Dayol said:


    Miss Med II diplomacy..

    I don't xD, Do you remember when was needed cross the map with a emissary or a princess?, how i hated that.
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • DayollDayoll Posts: 63Registered Users
    corvo said:


    I don't xD, Do you remember when was needed cross the map with a emissary or a princess?, how i hated that.

    Yeah, this is the only point i don't miss. I prefer this new system from Shogun II.

    But back at this time, let's say your were at war with the Holy Roman Empire, but, pouf, Crusade is asked, they stop the war, and go to the crusade with you.

    Witch in Warhammer, don't happen at all. Even if you're at war with all the Chaotic factions, there is some guys that don't ally with you and get destroyed were you could have saved them, and maybe win the war against Chaos.
    There is a lack of "working together against X" in this game.
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    edited September 2016
    Dayol said:


    There is a lack of "working together against X" in this game.

    I'm 100% agree in that. when the true invasion of chaos happens, the game needs a event like "let's focus on the real enemy" at least for humans and dwarf factions.
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 7,053Registered Users
    If you're close enough they'll make a counter offer, but the range is very narrow.
  • popsockpopsock Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    I don't think there is any AI, is there? I always thought TW games were just scripted.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 2,147Registered Users
    corvo said:

    Dayol said:


    There is a lack of "working together against X" in this game.

    I'm 100% agree in that. when the true invasion of chaos happens, the game needs a event like "let's focus on the real enemy" at least for humans and dwarf factions.
    Isn't that what the shield of civilization event does? I've never been at war with other humans or other dwarfs on either of those playthroughs, but when the event comes through alliances start popping up like daisies
  • TygereyeTygereye Junior Member Posts: 189Registered Users
    edited September 2016

    corvo said:

    Dayol said:


    There is a lack of "working together against X" in this game.

    I'm 100% agree in that. when the true invasion of chaos happens, the game needs a event like "let's focus on the real enemy" at least for humans and dwarf factions.
    Isn't that what the shield of civilization event does? I've never been at war with other humans or other dwarfs on either of those playthroughs, but when the event comes through alliances start popping up like daisies
    This is IMO the main problem : TWWH diplomacy is so dependant of Chaos invasion that it's not really worth bothering with it before and after this event. I would prefer diplomacy to be better balanced out of this invasion and the bonus given by fighting Chaos related factions to be tuned down.

    For example is it really necessary to make all the other factions at war with Chaos and Norscan ones as soon as the event starts? Scripting all Chaos factions to declare war on anyone they encounter while going south would IMO be enough and any faction not directly threatened would be less likely to join us than now. Then CA could buff diplomacy and trades to an acceptable level during the rest of the game.
    Post edited by Tygereye on
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users

    corvo said:

    Dayol said:


    There is a lack of "working together against X" in this game.

    I'm 100% agree in that. when the true invasion of chaos happens, the game needs a event like "let's focus on the real enemy" at least for humans and dwarf factions.
    Isn't that what the shield of civilization event does? I've never been at war with other humans or other dwarfs on either of those playthroughs, but when the event comes through alliances start popping up like daisies
    I didn't knew that event exists xD, but at least in "very hard" is nearly impossible to make alliances
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Posts: 646Registered Users
    Streamlined diplomacy would be GREAT, especially considering how much time.you need to spend in the diplo screen if you want to get anywhere with it on legendary.

    Also would love the option to request a faction that you are friendly.with make peace with your ally.

    Currently you have to declare war on the aggressor.otherwise you cannot do anything to stop them annihilating your friend, and oftentimes you want to be friends with both parties...the option to threaten war would be great.
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 952Registered Users
    Mercii said:

    Streamlined diplomacy would be GREAT, especially considering how much time.you need to spend in the diplo screen if you want to get anywhere with it on legendary.

    Also would love the option to request a faction that you are friendly.with make peace with your ally.

    Currently you have to declare war on the aggressor.otherwise you cannot do anything to stop them annihilating your friend, and oftentimes you want to be friends with both parties...the option to threaten war would be great.

    Yeah, I agree on that too. Requesting peace on realm would be very usefull playing as empire or dwarf.
    Also I always have dreamed about options to make two nations declare war each other because my actions, damaging their relations with agents of somerthing. I hope for the next historical title that they add some mechanics like "peace talk"
    Team Warriors of Chaos



    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favoured Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    - Archaon the everchosen, Lord of the End Times
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