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The Wood Elves Lore, Army, Tactics, and New Mechanics

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  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,573
    edited September 2016
    SiWi said:

    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    I found it odd that people think that all but one races (or at least 6-10) should share the main Campaign map, but one is the special cookie that needs its complete own map.

    Empire had maps for parts either direct next to the map (India) or those far away.
    It didn't have a special passing are to get into germany, or france and such.


    I do think we will see a special mini campaign, with a more detailed Athen Lorel.

    ? So Lustria, Uthluan, Naggoroh, Norsca, Skaven undermap, and possibly Chaos rift all have not been asked for repeatedly and at least 4 of those 'special' lands seem likely to appear.
    Lustria, Uthluan and Naggoroth have never been asked to be on a map just for each of the three, but rather one extension of the map at once.

    So already 3/5 of what you talk is nonsense.

    Norsca? When did anyone demand that they need to be a separate map to the GCM?
    Besides of course that they are already in the game.
    As for them being not inhabitant for other races:
    That is not even remotely similar to what has been ask for WE (thou it would be more realistic that if AL gets cities that no one can settle there, but WE).

    Finally the skaven undermap, would be something at least 3 races (Dwarfs and Greenskins) profit from (thou utterly unlikely at this point). It is far less "special cookie" then demanding that AL need to have a separate map for which reason again?
    How is a map that you acces via portal different than one accessed via sea? Beastmen, Goblins, Forest spirits would also be on Athel Loren map so it it would have just as much play as Skaven undermap, almost as much as Badlands, and more than Norsca which does absolutely nothing currently as Chaos is a horde and can skip Norsca entirely.

    Edit- not to mention if CA sticks with RO then both DE amd HE will need something to conquer in the Old World and Athel Loren makes alot more sense with 5-6 races than a Skaven map which in the lore only is contested by 4 races.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,895
    edited September 2016
    Your are forgetting that Athel Loren isn't remotely as big as the Empire.

    And the Empire doesn't have "all its settlements".
    Not even remotely.
    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    I found it odd that people think that all but one races (or at least 6-10) should share the main Campaign map, but one is the special cookie that needs its complete own map.

    Empire had maps for parts either direct next to the map (India) or those far away.
    It didn't have a special passing are to get into germany, or france and such.


    I do think we will see a special mini campaign, with a more detailed Athen Lorel.

    ? So Lustria, Uthluan, Naggoroh, Norsca, Skaven undermap, and possibly Chaos rift all have not been asked for repeatedly and at least 4 of those 'special' lands seem likely to appear.
    Lustria, Uthluan and Naggoroth have never been asked to be on a map just for each of the three, but rather one extension of the map at once.

    So already 3/5 of what you talk is nonsense.

    Norsca? When did anyone demand that they need to be a separate map to the GCM?
    Besides of course that they are already in the game.
    As for them being not inhabitant for other races:
    That is not even remotely similar to what has been ask for WE (thou it would be more realistic that if AL gets cities that no one can settle there, but WE).

    Finally the skaven undermap, would be something at least 3 races (Dwarfs and Greenskins) profit from (thou utterly unlikely at this point). It is far less "special cookie" then demanding that AL need to have a separate map for which reason again?
    How is a map that you acces via portal different than one accessed via sea?
    Do you call England a different map because it has sea between them?
    And even if we assume that the add the 3 continents like they add the americans to europe/india in Empire, that would still be a new map for THREE 3!!! races not just one.

    Beastmen, Goblins, Forest spirits would also be on Athel Loren map so it it would have just as much play as Skaven undermap, almost as much as Badlands, and more than Norsca which does absolutely nothing currently as Chaos is a horde and can skip Norsca entirely.

    Except that a Skaven undermap, utterly unlikely, wouldn't be there just for them in the first place and actually bigger anyway, since it would basically "mirror" the other map.

    Not zoom with 20x zoom just because some people see them as special cookie.

    And what's up with you Norsca obsession?
    Norsca is a regular part of the map, to take it somehow as justification for a AL Campagin Map in the Grand Campaign map is ridiculous.
    Edit- not to mention if CA sticks with RO then both DE amd HE will need something to conquer in the Old World and Athel Loren makes alot more sense with 5-6 races than a Skaven map which in the lore only is contested by 4 races.

    H&D Elves easily could take human settlements, Bretonnian are build on old elfen cities, and it would be most natural for them in terms of environment.
    Much more to conquer anyway than this tiny Forrest with its strange environment.
    CA also could disable it, as they said in the past, if they run into problems in course of the Trilogy.

    Which probably will happen when the expansion hits, since Lizardmen logically not really fit in any category really present in the old world (except of the few temple cities near Khemrin).

    Also AL is lorewise contest by 2 races since the rest doesn't care for it and rather avoids it.
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  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited September 2016
    The Empire has "all" of its settlements? If it had its map would have the same scale as the one for the "An Eye For An Eyes" mini campaign expanded to encompass all of its lands.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    Yeah, Carroburg is a faction in An Eye For An Eye, after all. In the Grand Campaign it is a single city that belongs to Middenland.

    The Wood Elves are getting a mini-campaign, that will expand Athel Loren more than enough if you want to fight in Athel Loren. But if it is too big in the grand campaign it will not only unbalance things economically, it will also just take too long to get through.
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  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 910
    I understand she is not technically a Lord option in the 8th edition army book, but wouldn't it be better if Ariel was the faction leader, with Orion as the other LL. Ariel takes part in battle, personally killing morghur, and she would be a female LL, which people seem to want, and a wizard faction leader. It would also leave Orion the chance to be dead for a quarter of the year. Then as a possibility Durthu would be the third LL. The only reason the sisters of twilight exist is because Ariel decided to stay in isolation for a long period of time but that's over now. TBH I think the only reason she isn't an official choice is because she would either be too OP or just a copy of the high elf ever queen.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    Roundy420 said:

    I understand she is not technically a Lord option in the 8th edition army book, but wouldn't it be better if Ariel was the faction leader, with Orion as the other LL. Ariel takes part in battle, personally killing morghur, and she would be a female LL, which people seem to want, and a wizard faction leader. It would also leave Orion the chance to be dead for a quarter of the year. Then as a possibility Durthu would be the third LL. The only reason the sisters of twilight exist is because Ariel decided to stay in isolation for a long period of time but that's over now. TBH I think the only reason she isn't an official choice is because she would either be too OP or just a copy of the high elf ever queen.

    Its a possibility, and I would have absolutely no issues with Ariel making her return. Up to this point all of the starting legendary lords for each race (upon release) have been 8th edition characters though, so until CA breaks with that tradition my assumptions will be based on that trend.

    I dont think her being OP is a reason we might not see her. Archaon, Teclis, Mazdamundi, there are plenty of completely overpowered characters in Warhammer who are toned down in Tabletop and Total War Warhammer. We wont be seeing Slaan one shotting entire armies when Lizardmen get released, although they're more than capable of doing that in the lore.
  • alex33alex33 Registered Users Posts: 1,269
    I'm for a orion ariel & durthu combo. But tbh i think they will throw in a woodelf LL instead even tho the 3 would be the most logical LL's. I always found it very funny that ariel is no LL for 8th. She features much much more in the armybook lore than even orion
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Roundy420 said:

    I understand she is not technically a Lord option in the 8th edition army book, but wouldn't it be better if Ariel was the faction leader, with Orion as the other LL. Ariel takes part in battle, personally killing morghur, and she would be a female LL, which people seem to want, and a wizard faction leader. It would also leave Orion the chance to be dead for a quarter of the year. Then as a possibility Durthu would be the third LL. The only reason the sisters of twilight exist is because Ariel decided to stay in isolation for a long period of time but that's over now. TBH I think the only reason she isn't an official choice is because she would either be too OP or just a copy of the high elf ever queen.

    With the green knight being something else than a LL I wonder if Orion will get the same treatment and the expanded time scale will mean 3LL not 2.

    Sisters of twilight(missile) , Ariel(magic), Durthu(melee)
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    edited November 2016
    grayhat said:

    Roundy420 said:

    I understand she is not technically a Lord option in the 8th edition army book, but wouldn't it be better if Ariel was the faction leader, with Orion as the other LL. Ariel takes part in battle, personally killing morghur, and she would be a female LL, which people seem to want, and a wizard faction leader. It would also leave Orion the chance to be dead for a quarter of the year. Then as a possibility Durthu would be the third LL. The only reason the sisters of twilight exist is because Ariel decided to stay in isolation for a long period of time but that's over now. TBH I think the only reason she isn't an official choice is because she would either be too OP or just a copy of the high elf ever queen.

    With the green knight being something else than a LL I wonder if Orion will get the same treatment and the expanded time scale will mean 3LL not 2.

    Sisters of twilight(missile) , Ariel(magic), Durthu(melee)
    I am sincerely hoping 3 legendary lords launch with the Wood Elves. I'm still extremely curious if/how DLC races like the Beastmen will be fleshed out going forward. Some people are expecting Morghur to come alongside Wood Elves, but there's obviously no guarantee of that.

    I dont think Orion will get Green Knight treatment unless they're both legendary lords. I feel like a Legendary Hero mechanic makes a lot of sense for TGK, and that obviously doesnt fly with Orion. Something seasonal with him could be cool though, in fact I expect it
  • alex33alex33 Registered Users Posts: 1,269
    edited November 2016
    Woodelves without their king would be heresy! I also think that if they put orion in there wont be a season mechanic
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    SiWi said:


    Also AL is lorewise contest by 2 races since the rest doesn't care for it and rather avoids it.

    Um Brettonians, Dwarfs, Beastmen and Greenskins all made multiple attempts on the place. Part of AL is invaded so often it's essentially a network of fortresses...

    Was at least one major VC invasion (may even have been kemmler).
  • WudgluWudglu Member Da BadlandsRegistered Users Posts: 395
    bishobola said:

    new mechanics:

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH: forest elves stack will join your forces one you gight enough

    Forest stance: special scenario and battle triggers if you fight during this stance.

    some mechanic no one cares about, like for example forest corruption, forest grow as wood elves expand


    yeah , beastmen originality level

    If dey iz green, den dey kan WAAAGH!
  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,749
    WE will have probably have 2 or 3 settlements in GC but in the mini campaign I'm sure they'll have all 12
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  • ladymissfitladymissfit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,722
    Ok, some thoughts. LL's should be Sisters as race leaders and Durthu(and/or Drycha) with Orion relegated to the wild hunt (we'll get to that). This was my thoughts at least until Albrecht showed up and threw a grail-shaped sword in the hypothetical wheel and took us on a completely different path: Ariel is more than possible now which changes things considerably.

    Ok, So Wood elves characters are crazy weird compared to every other faction so far in that they don't have their leader (Ariel) in the rules neither does she have a current model Orion who is technically king is also dead most of the year and only shows up to lead the Wild hunt. He is NOT faction leader material neither is he "normal" LL material. What does this really leave?
    There is the random noble nobody likes or even cares about and i doubt people even want to see him in the game (me included), there is Durthu who is rather mad and not really fit for faction leader role either as he is the current highest authority over the tree spirits but not the elves and his servant Drycha who, while infinitely more popular and interesting is also leading her own faction opposing the elves and anything not covered in bark. Not leader material either which leaves the sisters whom would work very well in a leader position in lieu of Ariel. They are her emissaries and speak with her authority. The sisters is the LL that makes the most sense as faction leader(s). However, with random Duke now confirmed this opens up Ariel entrance substantially and there is no doubt she is the clear choice.

    which makes the list for possible LL's both longer and more interesting:

    Faction leader: Ariel. Mage using lore of life and high magic.

    Sisters of Twilight. Ranged. choice between a Giant eagle or a forest dragon mount. crazy Resurrection powers if one of 'em dies but the other remains (really want this in).

    Durthu/Drycha. Leader(s) of the tree spirits. bonus to them and in the case of Drycha inability to hire any elf units.


    These are the lords I would like to see and would suspect the most likely with reservation for replacing ariel with the sisters should she not make it in which is still very possible. It would also be the first faction with any female lords and even combat ones and that would be a great boon if much too late.

    then there is mechanics. I'm very unfamiliar with the world root stuff but from what I've gathered, if implemented, would merely allow them to teleport to select places. there are ways to make this work without making it OP or UP but not something I'm opposed to. it would for example make it possible for them to meet the Lizardmen in the first place.

    But the one I find more interesting and more important is seasons and the wild hunt. I could see them using s similar system to both WAAAGH!, BM moon phases and the old crusade mechanic with every X turns after the last Wild hunt was finished you get an army led by Orion. How high tier, is level and items and stuff could be based on anything but let's say the first time he has nothing and gets stronger for every successful hunt. When he spawns you also get a target, be it an army or settlement, belong to either any of your current enemies or forces of destruction and Orion must always be moving towards this target with his army and must also keep his "fightiness" high enough or he and the entire force will take attrition and eventually die. however, if it is high enough it will continually reinforce as more spirits and elves join in allowing you to have an army deep in enemy territory without fear of attrition and losses as you try and reach the current target. succeed and you get a bunch of bonuses and loot and Orion dies again. Rince, repeat.

    Once the Wild hunt is done, the seasons will change, you will enter winter (right?), tree spirits will become weaker and more expensive. after a few turns it will be spring and Tree spirits become cheaper and notably stronger to then roll over to summer and whatever bonus is more fitting before Autumn and the next Wild hunt.
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  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    edited November 2016
    @LadyMissfit,

    Just a correction regarding Orion and Ariel. He is not dead most of the year and he does not only lead the Wild Hunt. Each year Orion dies stepping in his own funeral pyre at midwinter and is reborn from Ariel and the Oak of Ages' magic on the first day of spring. So all in all he is around most of the time (9/12 months). When he is not at war he rules alongside Ariel.
    It's also worth noting that during winter (midwinter to spring) Ariel slumbers inside the Oak of Ages (with the ashes of Orion, heww creepy). So at the end of the day Orion is not around in winter, but neither is Ariel.

    Concerning the Wild Hunt typically there one every year in summer but ultimately Orion is the one calling the hunt and basically calls one each time he leads the Asrai to war personally.

    That being said you are right when you say that Ariel is the true leader of the Wood elves. But so is Funibar... that might just not be enough, who knows ? (Aside from CA)

    P.S.: My personnal preferences for WE LL would be the Sisters of Twilight, Orion and Durthu. Durthu being drop named as the leader of a separatist faction in the DLC leak btw.

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  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,749
    Yeah I'm guessing in the mini campaign you start out as just the elves but if you follow a few quest missions and keep good relations you'll get Durthu's faction to join and unlock forest spirits in your roster
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  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    I would love to see the Sisters of Twilight.
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  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    I know only one thing for sure about woodelves after all the changed their lore over the years...

    If I had an army full of original 1990s metal figures of them unpainted (and without Ariel... worst miniature ever) I would be wealthy because they are highly priced on ebay because many people hate their new look...
    I hope CA also takes some artistic inspiration from earlier editions...
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    Seienchin said:

    I know only one thing for sure about woodelves after all the changed their lore over the years...

    If I had an army full of original 1990s metal figures of them unpainted (and without Ariel... worst miniature ever) I would be wealthy because they are highly priced on ebay because many people hate their new look...
    I hope CA also takes some artistic inspiration from earlier editions...

    I remember when I started Warhammer in 6th ed I didn't go for the wood elves because although they sounded good and their illustrations were badass because their minis were just horrendous. If I discovered them now with their current minis I'd give them a go.

    To each his own.
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  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 910
    I still am hoping for Ariel and Orion. Though if Ariel is in I think she needs to be somehow made more powerful then just a base spell weaver.
    I am not sure I fully understand it but if Darthu is a leader of his own faction, this could lead to an interesting campaign. So you start of with purely elves, with Darthu's faction as a horde that is neither friend nor for within athel Loren. It would also be interesting to see the other ancient (I forget his name) or drycha as leader of another horde that is aggressive to you), as well as a beastmen horde within your borders. So your campaign includes you having to battle the evil Forrest spirits, pushing them back much like chaos, as well as fighting the insurgent beastmen and other races, until you can confederate with Darthu, and gain access to tree spirits.
    This paired with the wild hunt which I think the crusade idea works well, and healing world roots, which should be linked to economy and stopping corruption, as in the lore the sap of athel Loren is anathema to corruption and heals it would be an interesting campaign as it provides an interesting campaign.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 910
    One thing I am interested to see is the sieges. Will the glades be sieges with walls made of trees or will it just be like sieging a unwalled settlement?
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    Roundy420 said:

    One thing I am interested to see is the sieges. Will the glades be sieges with walls made of trees or will it just be like sieging a unwalled settlement?

    I am very interested as well. I'm sincerely hoping they aren't a horde faction! But considering all the open space in Athel Loren, I'm pretty sure CA will give them some cities to work with.
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Indypride said:

    grayhat said:

    Roundy420 said:

    I understand she is not technically a Lord option in the 8th edition army book, but wouldn't it be better if Ariel was the faction leader, with Orion as the other LL. Ariel takes part in battle, personally killing morghur, and she would be a female LL, which people seem to want, and a wizard faction leader. It would also leave Orion the chance to be dead for a quarter of the year. Then as a possibility Durthu would be the third LL. The only reason the sisters of twilight exist is because Ariel decided to stay in isolation for a long period of time but that's over now. TBH I think the only reason she isn't an official choice is because she would either be too OP or just a copy of the high elf ever queen.

    With the green knight being something else than a LL I wonder if Orion will get the same treatment and the expanded time scale will mean 3LL not 2.

    Sisters of twilight(missile) , Ariel(magic), Durthu(melee)
    I am sincerely hoping 3 legendary lords launch with the Wood Elves. I'm still extremely curious if/how DLC races like the Beastmen will be fleshed out going forward. Some people are expecting Morghur to come alongside Wood Elves, but there's obviously no guarantee of that.

    I dont think Orion will get Green Knight treatment unless they're both legendary lords. I feel like a Legendary Hero mechanic makes a lot of sense for TGK, and that obviously doesnt fly with Orion. Something seasonal with him could be cool though, in fact I expect it
    I was thinking tempory lord turns up does some killing goes away again, although under different conditions
    Team Wood Elves

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  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    Roundy420 said:

    One thing I am interested to see is the sieges. Will the glades be sieges with walls made of trees or will it just be like sieging a unwalled settlement?

    Well the WE magically bend trees etc into subastaial fortifications in the lore so we should get that. But who knows. Oh and the 8e makes it sound like Atlantic Wall or Maginot scale not just individual settlements in some parts
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,870
    I just don't want to see Wood Elves as a horde because of wrong it would feel.

    Archaon shows up at turn 130 to burn the world down. "Don't worry mate, the wood elves have already wiped all life from the planet except their little forest".

    Step aside forces of chaos, tree huggers are the new lords of the end times.


    And making them a horde that doesn't burn stuff down and just plays puppet-master on the campaign map for other races seems so lame. Anyone who has tried to get the Norscan vassals to do anything productive in a WoC campaign knows what I'm talking about.


    Because of these two things I can only see conquering human settlements working. (At least for game 1). Sure it doesn't make sense, but looks better than 'Orion: bringing of ash' or 'total vassals-war: where all your allies attack each other just cause they can'.
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  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 4,075
    There are several places in the lore where space and time is inconsistent. Athel Lore is only one place. The chaos wastes are another.

    I'm not sure what they can do about that with the game map. While a second map would be cool, the underways approach is a reasonable compromise.

  • SkarbandSkarband Member Registered Users Posts: 593
    edited November 2016
    WE units will have a 360 decree shooting angle and can also move and shoot.
    Check http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-16-the-next-historical-total-war-is-an-era-we-havent-tackled-yet for more info. Other sites will probably follow.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,690
    Skarband said:

    WE units will have a 360 decree shooting angle and can also move and shoot.
    Check http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-16-the-next-historical-total-war-is-an-era-we-havent-tackled-yet for more info. Other sites will probably follow.

    so finaly an Archer unit that doesnt have to adjust the whole Formation as soon as an enemy appears on the side... finaly... that was annoying as heck that they had to do this after Medieval II...
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    They have a larger army roster than the armybook itself if we're just counting Core, Special, and Rare because of the addition of the Forest Dragon (not counting lord and hero choices). This DLC honestly looks amazing, I'm so glad CA seems to have taken critiques of the Beastmen DLC onboard.
  • ladymissfitladymissfit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,722
    no sisters means sad missfit :(
    Chaos lords should be women

    Army painter plox
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