WHAT DO WE THINK THE WOOD ELVES SHOULD BRING TO THIS GAME?

ChaosDragonBorn#6011

repost-(Speculate and give CA your opinion, no trolling. )

I think playing wood elves would require more tactical skill than most factions.
Since they rely on speed, shooting, and picking their fights carefully do you think they will be just right, weak or powerful?
They are at their absolute best when they fight in forest. What mechanic do you think will represent this?

Now the campaign. The elves are separated into numerous bands under elf nobles. Are there other wood elf factions? But they unite under Orion, king of Athel Loren and the living avatar of Kurnous. Do you think CA will finally bring in seasons and seasonal conditions with the introduction of the Wood elves? Or will they ignore the fact that Orion goes into the height of his power in midsummer, which ultimately forms a Wild Hunt. Seasonal WAAGH lol? Winter also affects wood elves heavily...or negatively. What do we think the Wild Hunt mechanic will be? It would take some creativity on their part. CA will eventually run out of room to re-implement current mechanics. They would have to at least put a spin on it.

Also, I think the wood elves could be a horde faction with significant benefits in and around the area of Athel Loren. With other factions taking attrition there. They would not take over other settlements, but they could settle in other forest. What mechanics could make the Wood Elves feel more attached to forests?

Since they will be a new race, they will probably come with a mini campaign. We know now that mini campaigns are quite literally mini campaigns and nothing else, do you think it will be the "The Secret War" with the Beastmen? Maybe the mini campaign should be way more dense with cool features than main campaign.

Arcani_4_Ever#4489

They should bring Athel Loren as a mini campaign map inside the main campaign.

Athel Loren has 12 Holds. that means we need 12 provinces for a lore accurate Athel Loren. So 12 provinces with 10 having 2 settlements and another 2 having 3 settlements.

The total number is 26 settlements.

We need a mini campaign map within the main campaign to make Athel Loren accurate to its lore.

The forest is bigger than it seems, it is literally a chaos manifestation and time flows in a different way inside it.

I dont want a solo mini campaign CA. If you add a mini campaign add it to the main campaign, at least that way i won't just play it once and forget it ever existed.

ChaosDragonBorn#6011

@Arcani 4 Ever
I couldn't agree with you more about the mini campaign. Instead of mini campaign, just double down on the uniqueness of the wood elves on Grand (or any other race for that matter).

I didn't know about all the settlements in Athel Loren. That's actually interesting the way you put it, because the factions that are at war with the wood elves could potentially destroy it by corrupting it or burning it down. Also, if Athel Loren is a campaign map in the Grand map itself, that would give reason to make awesome battles maps.

I made a post in another thread about interactive battle maps... Well in Athel Loren battle maps, things like the trees and branches can animate and damage enemy units.

This could also open doors for skaven mechanics, .....for another time though

hendo#1695

I'm guessing/wishing for the same thing or something similar. Athel Loren kind of has access similar to underway, it's a whole other section (only it would be implemented on campaign map not just battle map).

I 100% agree with op that the WE will require more tacticful skills and micro management will be intensified (why I'm always **** crying over pace-it's only going to get more intense with the new factions and units)

I'm wondering how the incorporate WE various arrows. And seasons are interesting because I think they are set on this whole time stands still (which is a pretty loose concept and doesn't negate seasons across the map).

Perhaps the seasons will be incorporated in the hypothesized mini map of athel Loren. Someone more familiar with lore: doesn't the seasons or at least the weather vary inside the forest itself?-if so that would be a cool twist.

Like others have suggested, I think more elites (smaller size units) will make their way in with the release of WEs.
When it comes to a standalone campaign, if they went that route I hope it's a little more than beastmen and more varied
(e.g. You can be more than on faction, maybe bretonia or WE against beast men -I'd offer beastmen as choice of faction but doesn't fit since not everyone will have them)

VlKlNG

It would be a huge shame if they make wood elves a hoard. Wood elves have homes.

hendo#1695

I'm also betting on (not that brace of a bet IMO) that the upcoming dlc/flc is going to be huge, the biggest we've had yet

Macoa1066#2249

We wont get a mini campaign in the campaign map. I think that'll be too complicated to implement. As the campaign map stands, you could fit around 5-6 settlements in Athel Loren which is more than enough. There is 6 settlements in all of Sylvania for the Vampire Counts. Now, since the wood elves wont expand outside of that, the possibility of some armies being semi self sufficient (having some horde like mechanics while still being grounded in Athel Loren) really appeals to me and I think itll be the most plausible implementation.

ChaosDragonBorn#6011

VlKNG said:

It would be a huge shame if they make wood elves a hoard. Wood elves have homes.

Yeah that's why I like @Arcani 4 Ever 's idea.

Macoda1066 said:

We wont get a mini campaign in the campaign map. I think that'll be too complicated to implement. As the campaign map stands, you could fit around 5-6 settlements in Athel Loren which is more than enough.

Yes, they could just make Athel Loren a normal spot on the map, forested and inhabited by Wood elves, (and it's most likely the case) but that would just water down the separate nature and overall point of the Wood elves. They are not just another faction with some land. They are hidden, secluded by a special forest that is not just some extra settlements Lol.

hendo1592 said:

I 100% agree with op that the WE will require more tacticful skills and micro management will be intensified (why I'm always **** crying over pace-it's only going to get more intense with the new factions and units)

And seasons are interesting because I think they are set on this whole time stands still (which is a pretty loose concept and doesn't negate seasons across the map).

Perhaps the seasons will be incorporated in the hypothesized mini map of athel Loren. Someone more familiar with lore: doesn't the seasons or at least the weather vary inside the forest itself?-if so that would be a cool twist.

From http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Athel_Loren

"The forest is steeped in magic, and it is unlike any other forest in the world. It is said that time flows differently in the forest than elsewhere. You could be in there for hours and come out and see only a few minutes have gone by. Or you could be in there for several minutes and come out and see a century has gone by.

Forest spirits - Treemen, Dryads, and so on - are common in Athel Loren, and when the Wood Elves go to war to defend the borders of their woodland realm, the living trees of the forest fight alongside them. Strangers who venture into Athel Loren are rarely seen again, and the local Bretonnian peasants who live in the vicinity of the forest border know to keep well clear of the trees."
So this is like a chaos wasteland except it has a different theme.

Macoda1066 said:

Now, since the wood elves wont expand outside of that, the possibility of some armies being semi self sufficient (having some horde like mechanics while still being grounded in Athel Loren) really appeals to me and I think itll be the most plausible implementation.

Yup, that's what I'm getting at, but this is total war... I think we should have the ability as wood elves to go out in other forest and settle them, Otherwise wood elves would be boring as a faction grounded to athel loren.

Sky_sweeper

ChaosDragonBorn said:

@Arcani 4 Ever
I couldn't agree with you more about the mini campaign. Instead of mini campaign, just double down on the uniqueness of the wood elves on Grand (or any other race for that matter).

I didn't know about all the settlements in Athel Loren. That's actually interesting the way you put it, because the factions that are at war with the wood elves could potentially destroy it by corrupting it or burning it down. Also, if Athel Loren is a campaign map in the Grand map itself, that would give reason to make awesome battles maps.

I made a post in another thread about interactive battle maps... Well in Athel Loren battle maps, things like the trees and branches can animate and damage enemy units.

This could also open doors for skaven mechanics, .....for another time though

I don't want another mini-campaign if it means another 10$ bundled into the package when I just want the race for the main campaign... unless it has cenimatics/cutscenes with dialogue and a narrative, of course. then I wouldn't mind. so far that's been absent from Total War.

hendo#1695

Hybrid horde/traditional will be cool: basically a home base in vast athel loren, and your venturing armies can be horde like mechanics in forests or stronger in them (maybe?).

Wood elves will be fun, looking forward to CA implementation of the lore -especially in -battle gameplay. Also the graphics (maps & models includes will be impressive-even if your not a fan, you'll enjoy fighting them, that is graphically )

ChaosDragonBorn#6011

Sky_Sweeper said:

ChaosDragonBorn said:

@Arcani 4 Ever
I couldn't agree with you more about the mini campaign. Instead of mini campaign, just double down on the uniqueness of the wood elves on Grand (or any other race for that matter).

I didn't know about all the settlements in Athel Loren. That's actually interesting the way you put it, because the factions that are at war with the wood elves could potentially destroy it by corrupting it or burning it down. Also, if Athel Loren is a campaign map in the Grand map itself, that would give reason to make awesome battles maps.

I made a post in another thread about interactive battle maps... Well in Athel Loren battle maps, things like the trees and branches can animate and damage enemy units.

This could also open doors for skaven mechanics, .....for another time though

unless it has cenimatics/cutscenes with dialogue and a narrative, of course. then I wouldn't mind. so far that's been absent from Total War.

I agree. A lot of things are absent from total war. If you notice this game has the most striped features out of all the total wars.
But anyway, yeah cutscenes and major narrative focus would definitely make mini campaigns interesting. Right now, it's just a waste of space to me. They should swell the mini campaign with awesome mechanics and features if they want to attach that to introducing races.

hendo1592 said:

Hybrid horde/traditional will be cool: basically a home base in vast athel loren, and your venturing armies can be horde like mechanics in forests or stronger in them (maybe?).

Wood elves will be fun, looking forward to CA implementation of the lore -especially in -battle gameplay. Also the graphics (maps & models includes will be impressive-even if your not a fan, you'll enjoy fighting them, that is graphically )

Yeah the wood elves could have horde gameplay outside of Athel Loren. Similar to the beastmen though, where they stay hidden, and could ambush by default. I think we called it hendo. That's how they fight anyway!

I have NO doubts the wood elves will look amazing. I think people don't give CA enough credit when it comes to the details of audio and aesthetics.

Seldkam

It's a skirmish reliant army, which I would say is gonna be pretty hard to make anything better than mediocre in the hands of the average player (which is sad because I am as far as I know an average player )

Simply put theres just a lot of mechanics in TWW going against them like Charge speed being ludicrously high meaning Elven skirmish units will most likely not be particularly fast in reality, low armor, probably not crazily good at shooting in comparison to cheaper counterparts (cheap archers in this game do far too much damage to heavy armor IMO)

and of course the fact that in TW infantry tends to be the winning factor, or in the case of TWW, the infantry / monster engagement.

Basically the Elven archers will have to be pretty jacked up to be good

Overlord87#6613

From a tactical battle gameplay, Wood Elves should bring skirmish-heavy gameplay, with lots of missile units but no artillery and no "heavy" infantry (except for some monstruous units). They should require careful positioning and movement.

From a grand campaign point of view, it should bring in a "roaming" good faction. Wood Elves should not be able to expand beyond Athel Loren, so once you manage to unite the forest, you should have a series of quests/mission/events/targets forcing you to send your armies out on missions.

Pray#3234

I got a best archer
I got a light infantry

ah ~ rekt

Thanquol

I have a feeling fighting against Wood Elves in MP is going to make people hate life due to the high probability of many of the units having stalk, good speed and ranged capabilities.

Seldkam

And then we start monstrous cav spam like boar boy big unz or demigryphs or even empire knights and all the light elves get knocked over and their spears / defence against large does nothing ...

I really don't think they're gonna be good unless CA pays careful attention to them

Thanquol

Seldkam said:

And then we start monstrous cav spam like boar boy big unz or demigryphs or even empire knights and all the light elves get knocked over and their spears / defence against large does nothing ...

I really don't think they're gonna be good unless CA pays careful attention to them

I don't think they are going to be OP but I can see poeple trolling the hell out of other people with horse archer spam and scattering them round the map hidden by stalk then running away the second they get spotted and running down the timer with ease forceing a draw almost everytime they so wish.

Seldkam

Grey Seer Thanquol said:

Seldkam said:

And then we start monstrous cav spam like boar boy big unz or demigryphs or even empire knights and all the light elves get knocked over and their spears / defence against large does nothing ...

I really don't think they're gonna be good unless CA pays careful attention to them

I don't think they are going to be OP but I can see poeple trolling the hell out of other people with horse archer spam and scattering them round the map hidden by stalk then running away the second they get spotted and running down the timer with ease forceing a draw almost everytime they so wish.

Stalk frankly doesn't matter unless the player is using it intelligently. You can spam all the night goblin archers you want but if you put them with the rest of your force you bet I'll be able to see them and shoot back once they open fire. Skirmish cav in this game also is quite terrible because none of them really have Parthian shot (and the ones that do if there are just aren't worth the cost, i.e. pistoliers being complete garbage)

That plus exhaustion being so potent in TWW making elvish cav being very easy indeed to catch up to and the speed bonus from charges, and archer armies that try and use stalk probably won't get anywhere if used like that.

I also don't think we will see cav with stalk

Running out the timer isn't really something specific to the elves because of the abovementioned, I mean it's not something they will be particularly good at unless the player brings nothing but archers but if he does that they'll get caught because every single faction has means of firing back or catching up to them.

SherShahSuri

I would like to see:

A ranged-ambush focused army, that relies on light but heavy-hitting melee (shock infantry), with mobile archers and heavy-hitting monstrous infantry.

A LL with that forest dragon as a mount

The ability to "Corrupt" provinces with forest, nature and all that. That eventually grows into full bloom and can eventually take over the map, putting heavy attrition on any non-woodelf or beastmen faction, bringing life back to the world... and causing Chaos and Vampires alot of butt-hurt.

The ability to take over Human cities and undead and replace them with Woodelf camps (kinda like Mongolian-Turkic Gers? without the horses and plains...).

I would NOT want ANOTHER horde.... hell no.. .absolutely not... Warhammer does NOT need another horde right now... especially since Chaos, Beastmen Greenskinz and Dwarves pretty much raze all the human settlements and leave nothing but a wasteland.

I would like to see a trade system for the elves, although in the lore they apparently dont trade with many outsiders... they also dont invade and occupy cities... but I bet they would, if they had the numbers and leadership to. It might make them a little more... blood thirsty since... they have to Eat What They Kill...

alex33#8263

it will also introduce the first ranged/melee LL with orion. hopefully he will also get his companion dogs alá skarsnik

GettoGecko#7861

They should bring some arrows to shot people who write in all caps and teach them some manners.

KhorneFlakes

****....no horde plz.. i beg you ca

GRAY_HAT

Seldkam said:

And then we start monstrous cav spam like boar boy big unz or demigryphs or even empire knights and all the light elves get knocked over and their spears / defence against large does nothing ...

I really don't think they're gonna be good unless CA pays careful attention to them

thats where the dyads come in, as a unit with high HP(or is T MD?), good damage and some resistance. The lower strength in 8e means they won't be killing as much of the elite units without bonuses but the conversion to TW should make them an a tar pit with claws(literally).

Then you add in the Lore of life and the become a full on denial of aera unit, flash to stone will basically reduce the hits coming in to close to zero and earth blood/Regrowth will make those pre nerf unlimited zombies look like statues.

The other option is to bait and trap, since nearly every unit is AP and those that aren't tend to be magic damage (in the case of elve bows it's your choice) the issue is just getting hits, 1-2 hidden units can get a good angle on cav units going for the sacrifice unit, just add shield of thorns and awaken wood in the area heal the unit to keep them there longer.


TT wood elves often relied on the opponent making a mistake but it was easy enough to force them to make one with the limited number of units on the field.

Laindesh

I dont know warhammer lore enough to make a proper statement but:

-No more hordes! (i rather see sub-factions such as greenskin horde tribes be added for that).
-TT units, it better bring more units than beastmen.
-Unique campaign gameplay. Would love to see them spread forest corruption or plant a "seed" to spread forest when razing a settlement.
-Unique combat, from what i read it would be fun if they are a guerilla type of combat faction. Aka Stalk, vanguard etc. But ambush techniques works too.

Not much else i know they should bring.

Oh i do hope the dlc also fleshes out beastmen abit. (even if i dont play them)

Seldkam

grayhat said:

Seldkam said:

And then we start monstrous cav spam like boar boy big unz or demigryphs or even empire knights and all the light elves get knocked over and their spears / defence against large does nothing ...

I really don't think they're gonna be good unless CA pays careful attention to them

thats where the dyads come in, as a unit with high HP(or is T MD?), good damage and some resistance. The lower strength in 8e means they won't be killing as much of the elite units without bonuses but the conversion to TW should make them an a tar pit with claws(literally).

Then you add in the Lore of life and the become a full on denial of aera unit, flash to stone will basically reduce the hits coming in to close to zero and earth blood/Regrowth will make those pre nerf unlimited zombies look like statues.

The other option is to bait and trap, since nearly every unit is AP and those that aren't tend to be magic damage (in the case of elve bows it's your choice) the issue is just getting hits, 1-2 hidden units can get a good angle on cav units going for the sacrifice unit, just add shield of thorns and awaken wood in the area heal the unit to keep them there longer.


TT wood elves often relied on the opponent making a mistake but it was easy enough to force them to make one with the limited number of units on the field.

Dyrads would have to be like OBUns in order to serve this purpose, regular sword infantry and the like really isn't used as anti cav if there are spears on the field, the maybe the elves will change this about TW we will see

nrdilodovico

I think the Fey units of the WE shouldn't be reasonable, instead depending on the level of threat to the forest/season/proximity to the wooded realm should dictate how many you get. Almost like a mobile garrison.

GRAY_HAT

Seldkam said:

Dyrads would have to be like OBUns in order to serve this purpose, regular sword infantry and the like really isn't used as anti cav if there are spears on the field, the maybe the elves will change this about TW we will see

TT stats M WS S T W A LD
Orc Bigun: 4 4 4 4 1 1 7
Dryad 5 4 4 4 1 2 8

so basically apart from missing anti-large as you can't change their weapons they more than match up to biguns, plus they have some AP.

Boindil

the first thing they showed us about wood elves was a door in a three.....a freaking door!!!...they just cant be hoard...^^

Seldkam

Those are some delicious stats, maybe they'll have token armor and OK HP for the toughness ... I think it looks like high melee attk and charge , decent defence too, but altogether rather vulnerable to cav and stronger missiles like longbow s

kabulk#6557

Beastmen units

#782919

After reading what has been putting on this thread, I am in agreement with most of you,

DEFINITELY not a horde! Also not like the other factions, maybe something in-between like a single tree settlement in the middle of a province they have taken from the humans and vamps, They shouldn't settle dwarf holds. DEFINITELY forest corruption (which is lore friendly, in a way, as Athel Loren did cover the whole world at one point). I like the idea of the WE's taking back the world for the forest, like an anti chaos. That's kind of what attracted me to them on TT. Also lets hope there not as OP as they are on the TT otherwise it won't be as much of a challenge.

Please not a horde! Anyone got any other ideas of how they should play???