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WHAT DO WE THINK THE WOOD ELVES SHOULD BRING TO THIS GAME?

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  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,880
    edited November 2016
    No Cities? Crap. Then they might be horde after all :(
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    grayhat said:

    alex33 said:

    The woodelves go outside of athel loren all the time during the wild hunt. They will do everything so that athel loren will stay safe. But the forrest is so important to them that it wouldn't make any sense to make them a horde faction. Chaos and beastmen dont have cities so they fit very well as a horde. Woodelves habe cities and multiple glades inside the forrests. I really hope there will be a double map system

    no cities as such(they disappeared in the early 90s), and the only reference to dwellings in 8e says they are made with spells and trees on a as needed bases.

    the glades are important but they don't so much live there as turn up for specific events. There are also some old high elven constructions that serve as something to fill the map and possible seats for the 12 lords(although that may also have been removed).

    As for going outside and the safety of Athel Loren, they are currently intertwined as the prophetess predicted the fall of AL if WE didn't get involved in the world affairs. How they do and what they are upto to achieve this is less clear .
    Hidden Halls were still in 6th ed at least.
  • alex33alex33 Registered Users Posts: 1,269
    They do have halls. They are mentioned in the 8th ed armybook
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    alex33 said:

    They do have halls. They are mentioned in the 8th ed armybook

    Scattered throughout the glades of these realms are the magical halls of the lords and ladies, their mighty entrance doors woven from the trunks of ancient trees or delved into the hillside.


    the halls are more a sanctuary than the place to live much like the glades.

    It is in these halls that the Wood Elves feast and celebrate the natural cycles o f the forest, holding grand banquets of woodland game and free-flowing, intoxicating Elven wines.


    I guess if you are making a merged horde-settlement race these work well as something to protect as they tend to be static and you could upgrade them some how, maybe.
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

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    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    grayhat said:

    alex33 said:

    They do have halls. They are mentioned in the 8th ed armybook

    Scattered throughout the glades of these realms are the magical halls of the lords and ladies, their mighty entrance doors woven from the trunks of ancient trees or delved into the hillside.


    the halls are more a sanctuary than the place to live much like the glades.

    It is in these halls that the Wood Elves feast and celebrate the natural cycles o f the forest, holding grand banquets of woodland game and free-flowing, intoxicating Elven wines.


    I guess if you are making a merged horde-settlement race these work well as something to protect as they tend to be static and you could upgrade them some how, maybe.
    A hall is most definitely a place to live, and nothing you have provided suggests otherwise. Indeed the description there is close to a few cultures structure, and almost universally such cultures the Lord or equivalent used it as a dwelling for themselves and their retinue.

    And their permanence is really a big blow to the horde idea.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,895
    edited November 2016
    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Petromir said:


    A hall is most definitely a place to live, and nothing you have provided suggests otherwise. Indeed the description there is close to a few cultures structure, and almost universally such cultures the Lord or equivalent used it as a dwelling for themselves and their retinue.

    a gathering spot and a capitol certainly, which is why I think half horde
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    edited November 2016
    SiWi said:

    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).

    Commonly they were the centrepoint of a city....

    but from the 8th ed book;

    H ere, the Elves have shaped
    citadels and strongholds from skycrown oaks, and endless
    leagues o f gnarled and tangled walls from rockbriar.


    Now its speaking about one of the areas of AE, but clearly gives Lore basis for fortified perment settlements.

    Edit apologies for the formatting in that, copy paste from an OCRd scan.
  • GaussiaGaussia Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,260
    While Wood Elfs don't form "cities", neither are they a horde faction. They do launch military campaigns outside their territory, but every faction does that.

    The difference between Wood Elfs and Empire is not that Imperial Humans stay in one city while the Wood Elfs Travel the world.

    In an province own by the empire most of the population is in the country side with a large population core in a city which also contains a lot of important institutions (the military).

    While a Wood Elf province don't got a large population center (like a city) it got a more or less fixed population of Wood Elfs living in the area. Sure, they are not a settled as even the rural humans (which might live in a farm/village) and travel around in the area and sleep in the forest. But they do more or less stay in the same area and are not traveling the 4 corners of the old world like a horde faction would.

    The problem is the Wood Elf "city battles", which have to be handled differently (since they have no cities). I'd simply make it an attack on the main glade/hall. While not an important center of population it contain a lot of importance to the regional Wood Elfs and it's natural that they'd move to defend it. If they fail to do so and it's destroyed it's not unthinkable that the local wood elf population would move to other regions of the forest.

    An alternative approach would be that there is no "settlement" in Wood Elf regions and all buildings are delocalized. Non WE factions obviously can't conquer AL provinces, but they can still raze them. To do so you need to park an army in the region and start to "Burn it down". Then the local wood Elfs have x turn to gather and defeat the army before the succeed. They are always reinforced by a local WE "garrison" (if it's a weak army the garrison can attack by itself). These battles are commenced in heavily forested battle maps that greatly favors a WE army.



    I figure that the the WE might be the hardest faction to implement. It will be interesting how CA solve the problem.
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Petromir said:

    SiWi said:

    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).

    Commonly they were the centrepoint of a city....

    but from the 8th ed book;

    Here, the Elves have shaped
    citadels and strongholds from skycrown oaks, and endless
    leagues o f gnarled and tangled walls from rockbriar.


    Now its speaking about one of the areas of AE, but clearly gives Lore basis for fortified permanent settlements.
    I took these as semi-permanent as they are shaped by magic that can be put back at any time. How often these citadels are made or returned to nature is the big question.
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    grayhat said:

    Petromir said:

    SiWi said:

    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).

    Commonly they were the centrepoint of a city....

    but from the 8th ed book;

    Here, the Elves have shaped
    citadels and strongholds from skycrown oaks, and endless
    leagues o f gnarled and tangled walls from rockbriar.


    Now its speaking about one of the areas of AE, but clearly gives Lore basis for fortified permanent settlements.
    I took these as semi-permanent as they are shaped by magic that can be put back at any time. How often these citadels are made or returned to nature is the big question.
    Nothing in the context gives much evidence either way, and the phrasing suggests there at least the are peminent.

    But in game terms it is largely academic, if every time they are approached by outsiders they are formed, then game wise they can be treated as permanent.
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Petromir said:

    grayhat said:

    Petromir said:

    SiWi said:

    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).

    Commonly they were the centrepoint of a city....

    but from the 8th ed book;

    Here, the Elves have shaped
    citadels and strongholds from skycrown oaks, and endless
    leagues o f gnarled and tangled walls from rockbriar.


    Now its speaking about one of the areas of AE, but clearly gives Lore basis for fortified permanent settlements.
    I took these as semi-permanent as they are shaped by magic that can be put back at any time. How often these citadels are made or returned to nature is the big question.
    Nothing in the context gives much evidence either way, and the phrasing suggests there at least the are peminent.

    But in game terms it is largely academic, if every time they are approached by outsiders they are formed, then game wise they can be treated as permanent.
    Petromir said:

    grayhat said:

    Petromir said:

    SiWi said:

    The problem is that a "Hall" isn't quite a city is it?
    Does it have a wall for example? (really important for TW).

    Commonly they were the centrepoint of a city....

    but from the 8th ed book;

    Here, the Elves have shaped
    citadels and strongholds from skycrown oaks, and endless
    leagues o f gnarled and tangled walls from rockbriar.


    Now its speaking about one of the areas of AE, but clearly gives Lore basis for fortified permanent settlements.
    I took these as semi-permanent as they are shaped by magic that can be put back at any time. How often these citadels are made or returned to nature is the big question.
    Nothing in the context gives much evidence either way, and the phrasing suggests there at least the are peminent.

    But in game terms it is largely academic, if every time they are approached by outsiders they are formed, then game wise they can be treated as permanent.
    Which is fine for AL it's what happens out side that need to be considered.

    do they just make little towns to rest for the night or can they move the citadel with them and regrow it as needed.

    If they have spread the forest into a region are new citadels made or do those take to long to weave
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • SecuterSecuter Senior Member Denmark, Aarhus.Registered Users Posts: 2,381
    As long as it won't be a bunch of forrest filled maps. I loath forrest maps.
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,880
    I imagine there may be a little bit of forest present on some of the maps.
  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,749
    Halls can be small settlements on the map. Maybe WE can't build walled settlements much like the Norscans.
    But they make up for it with tougher garrisons
    Died during the great YOYO wars
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    Proman_16 said:

    Halls can be small settlements on the map. Maybe WE can't build walled settlements much like the Norscans.
    But they make up for it with tougher garrisons

    I was just wondering about that, as far as aIl can see most of the halls are doors on the outside.

    How do you siege a door? especially one with a tenancy to turn invisible to people it doesn't like.
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • Sky_sweeperSky_sweeper Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,740
    if they're horde too then it's just another DLC to skip I guess... 2 horde factions is enough.
    A brave man marches into danger and ignores his fear. A courageous man marches into danger while embracing his fear.

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  • alex33alex33 Registered Users Posts: 1,269
    grayhat said:

    Proman_16 said:

    Halls can be small settlements on the map. Maybe WE can't build walled settlements much like the Norscans.
    But they make up for it with tougher garrisons

    I was just wondering about that, as far as aIl can see most of the halls are doors on the outside.

    How do you siege a door? especially one with a tenancy to turn invisible to people it doesn't like.
    easy you say the elvish word for "friend"
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    Proman_16 said:

    Halls can be small settlements on the map. Maybe WE can't build walled settlements much like the Norscans.
    But they make up for it with tougher garrisons

    I like this idea a lot actually, no proper sieges but a dense forest full of high tier elfes and tree guys with a few scattered structures (maybe towers to garrison?) would be pretty cool
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    That's when Bretonnian peasant archers, the best unit in the *****!(#@*U) game, fires flaming "boyfight-approved" arrows! Just for taking down those pesky wood elf infestations in your backyard!

    I'm just salty we haven't gotten anything yet on it. Maybe Dishonored 2 will help with that ;)
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    I hope bretonnia does get flaming arrows, setting towns on fire was my favourite part of Attila and it can only get better when the towns are full of elfes
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • DeuzerreDeuzerre Member Registered Users Posts: 939
    I beleive it will eb a very micro-intensive faction, using its light cav to slow down the ennemy while shooting it, and local strikes with fast units to weaken them enough for a direct combat.
  • HeroofRome1HeroofRome1 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,620
    Considering that Athel Loren is described as 'unknown terrain' on the GC map I think that that gives us reason enough to assume that something will be there. Please no WE horde.
    Team Rome, Team Byzantium, Team Dwarfs, Team Empire, Team Bretonnia Team Grim, Team elf slayers, Team Belegar.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Registered Users Posts: 2,297
    I think they will get to move through the world groot system. This would allow them to escape, evade and strike when appropriate. Also lightning strike will be important.
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

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  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    My ideal situation is that the World Root system is not a "stance" but rather a set of predefinined points on the map that, once activated by an army, allow you to just jump from one of these points to another.
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  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 910
    I think that CA really needs to consider something outside of the horde or empire building mechanic, with something in between. So the race starts with a central region that initially requires clearing of enemies, like beastmen in Ethel Loren, rebels, like insane tree spirits, and rebuilding fallen settlements, like forest corrupted by morghur being reclaimed and healed (this is in the lore of the last wood elves WFB book). But outside of this area they act more like hordes.
    This is a basic idea that needs to be fleshed out, but it would allow the wood elves to have a dominion over athel Loren whilst also having the wild hunt as a horde. This form of mechanic is also need for faction like the tomb kings who are undead, but only undead nechakarans, so they can't recruit undead troops outside of nechakara, but expeditions could be sent out to reclaim stolen gold for example.
    lizard men have a similar problem as they are only spawned from the prebuilt spawning pools in lustria and the southlands so troops couldn't be recruited in altdorf for example, but hordes could be sent out to destroy those who threaten the old ones plan and exterminate races.
    Likewise ogres are semi nomadic within the mountains of mourn and then just a horde any where else, daemons, which should fight over a chaos realm map, and siege the chaotic bastions of rival gods, but are a horde in the material world, and arguably chaos dwarfs which have an empire in the darklands but only go on slaving expeditions outside of it.

    Outside of this mechanic just leads to dissapointment, as it leads to major bending of the lore like new spawning grounds built in the old world as the lizardmen, or ignoring lore like the fact that there are definitely settlements in athel Loren.
    That being said there are some work arounds. For wood elves the waystones put in place by the elves to stop athel Loren could be removed so that the forest spreads in a corruption mechanic (which would be boring) or for the world roots to be restored so that pre emotive strikes against the enemies of athel Loren can be destroyed. There are some similar work arounds for other races.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,895
    Canuovea said:

    My ideal situation is that the World Root system is not a "stance" but rather a set of predefinined points on the map that, once activated by an army, allow you to just jump from one of these points to another.

    Are you sure you want a TW AI have access to such system?
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,156
    SiWi said:

    Canuovea said:

    My ideal situation is that the World Root system is not a "stance" but rather a set of predefinined points on the map that, once activated by an army, allow you to just jump from one of these points to another.

    Are you sure you want a TW AI have access to such system?
    Sure set up ambushes near the points, nice XP farm.

    Well that's actually my worry about that particular teleport, could potentially be really easily blockaded.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    SiWi said:

    Canuovea said:

    My ideal situation is that the World Root system is not a "stance" but rather a set of predefinined points on the map that, once activated by an army, allow you to just jump from one of these points to another.

    Are you sure you want a TW AI have access to such system?
    Sure. It would be potentially strange, but Wood Elves are potentially strange. And I'd rather have it and be able to use it. Furthermore, my suggestion needed the Wood Elves to claim the place first, before they could teleport.
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  • Phoenixzs84Phoenixzs84 Registered Users Posts: 42
    They should bring themselves at this point :D

    Some improved vanguard deployement system while they are coming would be most welcome.Not from behing maybe but a bit crescent or rear deployement options would be nice.

    Also I would love some harpies for beastmen or hidden base of operation kind of mechanic for both beastmen and elves (So some settlements like Norscas+Raiding parties)

    Also please they should have some remote "cousins" somewhere else on the map as well.Encountering them just at Athel Loren would be boring.I just love the northern dwarf tribe that gets wiped out by Chaos at the start of the game :).There are plenty of forest patches in the north kislev border :)
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