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Looking for help with Chaos vs VC build

Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,656Registered Users
edited November 2016 in Multiplayer Area
Is there ANYONE out there with strategies or armies that actually work? Im at a loss here. Every win I get is embarassingly close and they don't happen often. Aspiring Champions turned out to be a pointless addition since they die about as quickly as a Chaos Lord surrounded by varghulfs. Not a lot can be done about banshees or Vlad as far as my experiences have gone. Is there anyone out there that can tell me what I'm missing or do we need to give some Chaos units more buffs?

Comments

  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 1,160Registered Users
    I've played a lot of VC vs Chaos and a lot of Chaos vs VC this patch. I'd say its a pretty even matchup, and I'd disagree that aspiring champs are a poor pick.

    For any faction, the principle thing you need to do to beat VC is eliminate their passive healing sources ASAP. This is definitely easier for other factions with missile troops, but there are ways for Chaos to do it also.

    The fastest method is an air superiority build with lord and fire sorc on manticores with 2-3 manticores supporting. Its risky if the VC goes all-out air but that's generally not a good move for VC as atm their flyers are awful for cost. Overcast fireballs from an air-mounted fire sorc do huge damage to any VC unit with the regeneration trait (which makes them weak to fire), and will one shot banshees. So we're talking 2-shot mortis and ghorst (and terrorgheist/varghulf), 1-shot necros on corpse carts and banshees. Chaos is a rush army but you need to wait for them to come to you while you fireball the key targets.

    The other build I use vs VC as Chaos is the Everwatcher, 2 giants, 3 aspiring champs, 2 marauder horse with axes and rest on forsaken and chaos warrs. Everwatcher and champs deal with etherials and giants take out passive healing units. Good players will kite your giants with the mortis which is where the marauder horse come in. This marauder horse are vulnerable to VC flyers, but generally if they go flyers they go all-out and won't have a mortis.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    You want Aspiring Champions in case you have to fight wraiths. They also do amazingly well against fodder units like zombies and skeletons. They do well against Banshees also.

    For the front line Great Weapon and Halberd Chaos Warriors are your best bet. Chosen do poorly against Great Weapon Grave Guard but great against almost everything else. Your army ends up being too small if you use them, so just stick with the two CW variants.

    Take plenty of Marauder Horsemen or Horsemasters. They can deal with Crypt Horrors, flying monsters, and Mortis Engines and Crypt Carts.

    If you take shooting units then you are free to take flying lords and heroes as they can get backup from the MH. If you have a flying Fire Wizard then you can Fireball Necromancers and just about everything else with low armor. Shoot directly down on the target for maximum explosion damage.
  • odsy2odsy2 Posts: 715Registered Users
    I really don't think its that doable to beat a good vamp player as chaos. I've tested it loads and terror just reks chaos and the few time I managed to whittle his army down you still got no good answers to wight kings and vlad. Chaos can work against other factions okay cause they can route a main line quite fast but against a line that doesn't break they really struggle. U got no good answer to crypt horrors either

  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,656Registered Users
    This is why I've been suggesting immunity to psychology for chosen and Chaos warriors. It's ridiculous to see a unit run away and then stop 4 seconds later as soon as they get out if combat with that er unit is scaring them. Over and over I watch this happen against VC and even ethereal dwarves.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 1,107Registered Users
    chosen need more weapon damage and melee attack..more than immune to pyschology.(which they can get if mark of khorne becomes hex like bs and high king )

    Balance Is A Lie

  • busa27busa27 Senior Member Posts: 1,744Registered Users
    - Lord on Dragon
    - Fire Wizzard on manticore: To snipe Mortis.
    - 4 Horsemasters: To kill Crypt Horrors and support your Lord if VC bring flyers spam.
    - Infantry

    If you can't snipe the mortis engine you are dead. It's all about lucky.

    If VC player has more flyers than you, run while your horsemasters do damage.

    It isn't an unbeatable Chaos build vs VC but I win most of the battles vs VC.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 1,107Registered Users
    the build in ninjahund guide is actually the best tbh

    Balance Is A Lie

  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    You are kidding, right? No Fire Wizard or magic damage, no missile units... there is nothing in his build to counter half the stuff in a typical VC army. Are you saying "good" VC players don't use the Mortis Engine? Did you try Busa's build?
  • ZEVA_Thorien_KellZEVA_Thorien_Kell Senior Member Posts: 1,499Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    All you need to do is take out his mortis engine, then your army can compete (otherwise - you're toast). You have forsaken for killing meatshield, you have spawn which can go rampant since there are no missiles. You can even bring giant or two, they do wreck heroes and infantry well.

    Bring fire wizz on manticore, he can fireball snipe and buff your army. And as busa said, elimitate his horrors with horsemasters. Then your chaos warriors gw can kill his elite infantry.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 1,107Registered Users
    salsicha said:

    You are kidding, right? No Fire Wizard or magic damage, no missile units... there is nothing in his build to counter half the stuff in a typical VC army. Are you saying "good" VC players don't use the Mortis Engine? Did you try Busa's build?

    umm sorry, i think i mentioned it wrong its not in his build guide he uses on his stream which is quite different.

    Balance Is A Lie

  • odsy2odsy2 Posts: 715Registered Users
    even if u take out the mortis engine you'll prob still have a banshee or cairn wraiths causing terror. Busa27s build sounds like it may work, a lot of vamps take the dire pack though so the horse master might get chased about by them and wight kings could chase them off as well I expect
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Posts: 1,478Registered Users
    12 marauder horsemen.

    7 manticores.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 1,319Registered Users
    its always fun to hear you
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 1,319Registered Users
    Kayosiv said:

    12 marauder horsemen.

    7 manticores.

    totally noobish.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 1,319Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    busa27 said:

    - Lord on Dragon
    - Fire Wizzard on manticore: To snipe Mortis.
    - 4 Horsemasters: To kill Crypt Horrors and support your Lord if VC bring flyers spam.
    - Infantry

    If you can't snipe the mortis engine you are dead. It's all about lucky.

    If VC player has more flyers than you, run while your horsemasters do damage.

    It isn't an unbeatable Chaos build vs VC but I win most of the battles vs VC.

    fire sorc on dragon, meta sorc on manticore, 2 feral manticores rest is secret. btw this built you say is too weak u dont need horsemasters vc have no range.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,656Registered Users
    edited November 2016

    busa27 said:

    - Lord on Dragon
    - Fire Wizzard on manticore: To snipe Mortis.
    - 4 Horsemasters: To kill Crypt Horrors and support your Lord if VC bring flyers spam.
    - Infantry

    If you can't snipe the mortis engine you are dead. It's all about lucky.

    If VC player has more flyers than you, run while your horsemasters do damage.

    It isn't an unbeatable Chaos build vs VC but I win most of the battles vs VC.

    fire sorc on dragon, meta sorc on manticore, 2 feral manticores rest is secret. btw this built you say is too weak u dont need horsemasters vc have no range.
    Seriously man?
    Get the hell off my thread.
  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 1,160Registered Users
    VC having no range is exactly why you bring horsemasters (or MH).... ranged units hardcounter skirmish cav.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    Horsemasters don't counter infantry ranged units anyway... they get mowed down by core missile units
  • AfanAfan Posts: 190Registered Users
    edited November 2016

    Is there ANYONE out there with strategies or armies that actually work? Im at a loss here. Every win I get is embarassingly close and they don't happen often. Aspiring Champions turned out to be a pointless addition since they die about as quickly as a Chaos Lord surrounded by varghulfs. Not a lot can be done about banshees or Vlad as far as my experiences have gone. Is there anyone out there that can tell me what I'm missing or do we need to give some Chaos units more buffs?

    Heres all the help you need. I have about 300 games as chaos under me since the very beginning. I have lost to VC maybe 5 times total, that too during the lord sniping days.

    Try the following build and you should never loose to VC:

    Archaeon - mounted, flaming sword of rhuin and fireball
    5 chaos halberds
    2-3 giants
    2 aspiring champions (keep for leadership at back and engage only ethereal units)

    Thats it. Good luck
    Post edited by Afan on
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    Spirit Leech is still strong enough that Archaon can be sniped, and you've got nothing to deal with the Mortis Engine, but Giant spam is still something VC has no counter for.
  • AfanAfan Posts: 190Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    Archaeon is deceptively tough. Tougher than even kholek in my experience.

    Spirit leech will do mininal damage to him. Plus if the VC uses all his spirit leech on archy, which will get him to about 1/3 hp, where the magic left for nehek ?

    Plus hes got magical attacks, and lore of fire. The perfect combination against all vamp key units.

    CW halberds are heavily armored enough to beat all vamp infantry, cav and monsters except GG.

    Giants pummel GG and heroes into the dust.

    Archy gives magical and fire damage to whole army against ethereal and regen units.

    Archys crown of domination and aspiring champs +8 leadership helps a lot against terror. Nothing breaks.

    The vamps simply get out damaged and melt against the wall of steel and fire
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    afan said:

    Archy gives magical and fire damage to whole army against ethereal and regen units.

    You mean Sword of Rhuin?
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 2,208Registered Users
    afan said:

    Plus if the VC uses all his spirit leech on archy, which will get him to about 1/3 hp, where the magic left for nehek ?

    There is plenty of passive healing and damage now.
  • JastallJastall Junior Member Posts: 335Registered Users
    Flying Lord, fire Wizard, Giant. These are the three units that allow you to win; kill the Mortis Engine, buff up your frontline, let the Giant run rampant. Aspiring Champions are also a must to keep Leadership high, and with support GW Warriors trade decently with Grave guard. I do have a hard time squishing in Anti-Large, but one or two Halberd Warriors can be enough.

    I actually had some success using Archaon. He's very tough, mobile on his pony, and can have the mass to punch through and catch the Engine; he also has Fire spells and his magic attacks allows him to absolutely annihilate Banshees. He's one of the few Lords who also doesn't fear Vlad in close combat that much.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,656Registered Users
    edited November 2016
    Yeah but even Archaon can't beat Vlad and 2 banshees after already taking 20+winds worth of spells to the face.
    Post edited by Combat_Wombat on
  • KimJaeKyuKimJaeKyu Posts: 87Registered Users
    edited February 16
    sadly, if VC have brain and skilled, there is no hope

  • Redrum187Redrum187 Posts: 1Registered Users
    Try this setup

    3 Hell Canons
    1 Manticore
    Khalek as the Lord
    2 Chaos warriors
    2 forsaken
    3 marauder
    2 Chaos Warhounds