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New Units Stats (Realm of the Wood Elves - Campaign Let's Play )

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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Right, but don't wolves in tww also have similar speed? Makes elven cav overall less elven and more normal if that's the case ...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • NaiethNaieth Registered Users Posts: 231
    They are the fastest horse-riders anywhere outside of Pegasus knights. I'm definitely happy with their speed.
    Support a third Legendary Lord for Wood Elves
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Naieth said:

    They are the fastest horse-riders anywhere outside of Pegasus knights. I'm definitely happy with their speed.

    Fastest by a magnitude of 3 barely matters because charge speed is gonna mess things up quite nicely... getting into range just to shoot (at least it's 140) coupled with exhaustion will make it really easy for the overly fast charge speed bonus to close the gap
    That being said I'm happy with their speed as well, more annoyed about the melee stats and missile damage TBH
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • GuillelmusGuillelmus Registered Users Posts: 11
    edited November 2016

    Really disappointed in the low Melee Attack and slightly above average Melee Defense for the Eternal Guard.

    I don't mind them being squishy, but their skill with weapons is a defining trait of them and all elves.

    The +24 damage vs large is crazy though.


    I would also prefer Eternal Guard to be similar to Longbeards (both units have WS 5 in TT) with MA 30 and MD 47. But still, Eternal Guard is a Tier 1 infantry and maybe we should rather compare them to Dwarf Warriors.

    DW have MA 22, MD 38 and WStrength 28, while Eternal Guard have MA 26, MD 43 and WS 24 (but Anti-Large and Armour Piercing). Hitpoints are nearly identical. Eternal Guard have Leadership 80, that is even better than Longbeards!
    Dalakh said:

    Units buffed by Orion have +20 Armor. So Eternal Guards without shields and Wildwood rangers have 40 base. Deepwood scouts have 15 base. The real speed of all these units is only 35.

    Deepwood scouts have Vanguard, Stalk and fire on the move (and 360 arc probably), thier real missile damage should be around 44 but only 115 range ?? FTW that's less than a goddamn gobbo with short bow...

    All units already recruited have some magic resist from a tech and not from their base stats.

    Goblin Archers have same range of 115 but missile damage 16. In fact Deepwood scouts MD is more than 2 times better than that of Quarrellers and I think they have better accuracy too.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Deep woods will be made or broken by their cost with that kind of statline, if they're cheap enough they can be afforded the risk of such a low range skirmisher unit, but if too expensive it's not worth it as a goblin Archer unit will probably tear them apart just as well as cavalry :/

    Also yes eternal guard are actually in a damn fine spot considering they're probably the first infantry the WE get access to...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • GuillelmusGuillelmus Registered Users Posts: 11
    I believe, there may be a bug or typo, concerning armour value of units in the campaign.

    There is a technology called "Addaioth, Bringer of Fire" that gives +10% ammunition and +20% Armour to Elf infantry and cavalry units but not straight +20 to Armour, that we see in the unit cards. Orion also does not have any chosen skills which improve armour of units in his army.
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 651
    Axikus said:

    Mooncake said:

    Apparently these elves are slightly more skilled archers than goblins. Nice.

    Goblins can't use arrow enchantments, and accuracy & reload time are hidden stats. So, too early to judge.
    I don't really think it is too early to judge if that is their actual range. That is just stupidly low, especially for elves.
  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,749
    Mooncake said:

    Apparently these elves are slightly more skilled archers than goblins. Nice.

    I think it's the ammo type it probably reduces range but adds more damage
    Died during the great YOYO wars
  • stratigostratigo Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 265

    Really disappointed in the low Melee Attack and slightly above average Melee Defense for the Eternal Guard.

    I don't mind them being squishy, but their skill with weapons is a defining trait of them and all elves.

    The +24 damage vs large is crazy though.

    They have the same melee skills as most dorfs :P.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Proman_16 said:

    Mooncake said:

    Apparently these elves are slightly more skilled archers than goblins. Nice.

    I think it's the ammo type it probably reduces range but adds more damage
    But what arrow would logically do this? Hagbane probably not, silver shards probably not again, and maybe fire but also doubtful

    Can anyone check the video to see exactly where these stats came from ?
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • IlyandirIlyandir Registered Users Posts: 230
    I'm curious as to whether the fire on the move mechanic reduces accuracy. Does anyone know? Makes sense that it should.
    I can bend minds with my spoon.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Ilyandir said:

    I'm curious as to whether the fire on the move mechanic reduces accuracy. Does anyone know? Makes sense that it should.

    Technically wood elves sometimes ignore that on the TT, fun fact

    But I'm not actually sure, just by eyeballing a lot of gameplay and having a bunch of tw I'd hazard a guess that if there is a penalty it's not very strong at all...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,880
    Wood Elf archers should be powerful enough to be feared by all, and fast enough to run away from most. If they can effectively fire without changing facing that will be beautiful.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Stephince said:

    Wood Elf archers should be powerful enough to be feared by all, and fast enough to run away from most. If they can effectively fire without changing facing that will be beautiful.

    Itd be damn stupid to have a unit that can fire while moving but has no 360 degree range ... but we will see

    I'm just hoping the archers are considered decent melee combatants, I'd rather not see the elves Archer and skirmish units screwed over too much in melee just cause they are skirmishers. Quarrellers are technically on the weak side in terms of melee but they work because of the heavy armor and shields. What will the wood elves have though?
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • Nyanko73Nyanko73 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,351

    Really disappointed in the low Melee Attack and slightly above average Melee Defense for the Eternal Guard.

    I don't mind them being squishy, but their skill with weapons is a defining trait of them and all elves.

    The +24 damage vs large is crazy though.

    Well, the legolas vs oliphant scene found its way down the lore...

    Team Yennefer

    "A blinding flash materialised into a transparent sphere, and inside it loomed a shape, assuming contours and shapes at frightening speed. Dandelion recognised it at once. He knew those wild, black curls and the obsidian star on a velvet ribbon. What he didn’t know and had never seen before was the face. It was a face of rage and fury, the face of the goddess of vengeance, destruction and death." - Time of contempt
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,511
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    pray said:


    Waywatcher

    let the MP trolling commence

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    boyfights loves wood elves.

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  • Gael40Gael40 Registered Users Posts: 258
    I think they will suck in multiplayer actually considering their price : 60 models on ultra like cavalry, 15 armor, 38 speed... It's not very hard to know where a unit is hiding just watching where the arrows come from.

    They will get raped by both range and cavalry/flyers.
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 651
    Soukie said:

    I think they will suck in multiplayer actually considering their price : 60 models on ultra like cavalry, 15 armor, 38 speed... It's not very hard to know where a unit is hiding just watching where the arrows come from.

    They will get raped by both range and cavalry/flyers.

    I think they will be pretty bad as well. CA has shown that they have no clue how to balance elite type armies. Hopefully that will change over the course of the trilogy.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,753
    Soukie said:

    I think they will suck in multiplayer actually considering their price : 60 models on ultra like cavalry, 15 armor, 38 speed... It's not very hard to know where a unit is hiding just watching where the arrows come from.

    They will get destroyed by both range and cavalry/flyers.

    I think its less about discovering their whereabouts and more than they'll be immune to retaliatory fire from other skirmishers.

    Not to mention, no, they will not be bad unless grievously expensive.

    They have 23 armor piercing missile damage at 160 range.

    Guns have 17 armor piercing missile damage. Usually 68 men in a unit instead of 45 for sure, but they should rip apart cavalry and large armored targets, not to mention automatically win any shootouts with enemy skirmishers because they can fire while moving backwards and remaining hidden, killing enemy shooters before they can even fire a shot.
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  • Gael40Gael40 Registered Users Posts: 258
    edited November 2016
    Kayosiv said:

    Soukie said:

    I think they will suck in multiplayer actually considering their price : 60 models on ultra like cavalry, 15 armor, 38 speed... It's not very hard to know where a unit is hiding just watching where the arrows come from.

    They will get destroyed by both range and cavalry/flyers.

    I think its less about discovering their whereabouts and more than they'll be immune to retaliatory fire from other skirmishers.

    Not to mention, no, they will not be bad unless grievously expensive.

    They have 23 armor piercing missile damage at 160 range.

    Guns have 17 armor piercing missile damage. Usually 68 men in a unit instead of 45 for sure, but they should rip apart cavalry and large armored targets, not to mention automatically win any shootouts with enemy skirmishers because they can fire while moving backwards and remaining hidden, killing enemy shooters before they can even fire a shot.
    We don't know how much is armor piercing out of these 23, handgunners and thunderers have 16 AP and 3 normal damage over 11 sec. Considering they could have less than 23 AP, they could be even worse than they appear. Even if they deal 30% more AP damage but the hangunners have 50% more models it's a big fail from CA. As for their price, 276 upkeep mean they will be very expensive, (what is it usually ? a third of the total cost as upkeep ? or is it a 4th ?). Oh and they have the same hp and armor as handgunners. So much for best archers in the Warhammer world.

    I agree that the firing while moving backward is huge against other missile units. But they won't be better at taking out big units and cavalry than handgunners or thunderers, a lot less for their price actually.
  • gholingholin Member Registered Users Posts: 1,323
    edited November 2016
    I don't mind elves having lower armor, or a generally squishiness in HP, but they should more than make up for it in skill. Immortality and long life should have its benefits in battle, and elves have that in spades. Elves should die fast if hit, but kill faster because they deflect and hit so effectively. High melee skill defense skill, and weapon strength.

    God, this expansion can't come soon enough. I've been dying to play one of the elven factions in TW Warhammer and Wood Elves happen to be my absolute favorite of the three.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,753
    edited November 2016
    Soukie said:


    I agree that the firing while moving backward is huge against other missile units. But they won't be better at taking out big units and cavalry than handgunners or thunderers, a lot less for their price actually.

    Waywatchers were never capable of killing regular troops for a more efficient cost than glade guard in the tabletop. You bought them to take out heavily armored and elite units, or just snipe characters. Spamming waywatchers is never going to be a viable tactic, but they should be one hell of a scalpel.

    Not to mention they have much higher combat stats than the likes of normal archers or hand gunners and should be able to defend themselves against hounds and bats fairly adequately.

    Also, for all we know they fire every 5 seconds and just machine gun out those arrows, so we'll have to see. I recall someone mentioning that some elven archers can fire multiple arrows simultaneously.
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    If they really are around 800+ ehhh maybe the old total war taboo of taking expensive skirmishers will make the decision for us?

    IDK, for a 45 unit and that expensive they'll probably be great for the players that can keep me alive but I'm not one of those I don't think so ... :(
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • Gael40Gael40 Registered Users Posts: 258
    edited December 2016
    I think they were talking about heroes.

    As far as attack rate is concerned, it's included in the damage number. When it says 23 it means 23 over 10 seconds. It's 2.3 damage per second if you prefer.

    Btw, glade guards only have 1.6 dps, and no AP.
    Elven archers don't look that strong tbh. i'm afraid eternal guards and trees will be the way to go. Of course it's only speculation at this point, and i'm sure CA will adjust their stats if needed.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,753
    I'd prefer if they had excellent archer support that complimented strong anti-infantry (tree spirits) and strong anti large (elves).

    Nobody wants the most effective method to be bow spam. That is amusing perhaps for a while but ultimately very boring.
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    Wellllll currently it looks like they will need some rearranging already but I think that was natural. Question is do we want wood elves to be like the Tt where its mostly about making all the units work together to compliment each other... or full on archery dominance

    Honestly I like the tt version where the units aren't crazy specialize but have their own flavor
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,511

    lord look really nice 69 raw melee attack -0-


    ranger look meh but anti large ? wow


    glade guard fire arrow have armour pircecing but poison don't get armour pircecing



    warhawk raider 214 upkeep killed glade raider 164 upkeep glade raider absolutely meh


  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    edited December 2016
    Glade guard stats aren't terrible actually imo, accuracy is going to be pretty huge though that's for sure.... they're almost looking worth it depending on the price, but with reduced unit size and still having really bad melee stats for an elf unit I'm not sure how that's work

    Only 35 speed though, but why?!
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • busa27busa27 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,744
    edited December 2016
    pray said:


    lord look really nice 69 raw melee attack -0-

    What unit is that?. Looks like Grace_CA.
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