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Wood Elves vs. Morghur the Shadowgave + Harpies - Total War Warhammer Battle Gameplay

IndyprideIndypride Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,729
edited December 2016 in General Discussion


So I've gotten a chance to play a bunch of custom and multiplayer battles with the Wood Elves thus far, and really been enjoying their playstyle. I'm working on a full DLC review that I plan to have up sometime tomorrow, but based on my games so far, they're about what I was expecting. And I was expecting a lot ;P

They have cost effective and damaging archers in the form of Glade Guard with Starfire Shafts, they have relatively cheap and very tanky monstrous infantry in the form of Treekin, and great lores of magic to work with. Where the Wood Elves really shine are the Lord and Hero choices, and the fliers. I think the female Glade Lord with Prey of Anath Raema is one of the most versatile and awesome lord characters in the game. She has been a joy to use on multiple occasions, just so much utility and damage and mobility. The Great eagle has a huge amount versatility and mobility for 900 gold, and really help round out the Wood Elves roster in air engagements, where I think they thrive as a faction.

I'm a little disappointed with the Waywatchers, for 1200 gold I think they just dont nearly have enough damage or utility to justify spending so much. Especially when it can be so simple for a cheap flying unit or Warhound to sneak through and wreck their day. I wish Wild Riders had a more devastating charge to reflect the tabletop, but they are still a versatile unit and fantastic for murdering routing troops quickly and hammer and anviling the main line. Dont expect them to dominate straight engagements, they wont. This faction is (as we expected) very micro intensive and squishy. But I think that makes their playstyle all the more rewarding when you execute well.

Morghur is a monster in the games I've seen him. Regeneration and a huge HP pool keep him very survivable, and he can summon Chaos Spawn 4 times in a battle if you use his spells appropriately. Being able to effectively one shot a unit below 20% HP and put a full strength Chaos Spawn in their place is VERY strong.

Overall, really enjoyed the new animations and playstyle so far, and hope to have the full review of the DLC up tomorrow once I've played more of the campaign. Enjoy the replay!
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Comments

  • alex33alex33 Registered Users Posts: 1,269
    I don't have time to watch videos right now but to wildwood rangers still use the greatswords animation?
  • thesniperdevilthesniperdevil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,929
    This was really great, Thanks! I know Oakley was pretty worried about how well woodelves faired, be great to know his thoughts after that battle!
  • ForSigmarForSigmar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 196
    That net spell from the Glade lord seems very very Strong. Net of Am at least cost winds of magic....... so it is limited in the number of times it can be cast. How long does it last normally? I get that Wood elves need ways to keep enemies at range but it should probably be a slow and not an outright net since it has no limit on the number of casts and it makes the unit more vulnerable to range sniping.
  • DEM0N_LLAMADEM0N_LLAMA Registered Users Posts: 620
    Thanks for the info. Any opinion on the harpies?
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 651
    Does the male Glade Lord have a unique special ability?
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    edited December 2016
    ForSigmar said:

    That net spell from the Glade lord seems very very Strong. Net of Am at least cost winds of magic....... so it is limited in the number of times it can be cast. How long does it last normally? I get that Wood elves need ways to keep enemies at range but it should probably be a slow and not an outright net since it has no limit on the number of casts and it makes the unit more vulnerable to range sniping.

    It is very strong. I'd like CA to keep it that way. Some people look at Net of Amyntok and Prey of Anath Raema and say they're OP, but I think its more a case of so many spells in Total War Warhammer currently being completely underwhelming. I would LOVE for their to be more spells and abilities like this, that provide a ton of utility but perform a function other than outright damaging or killing enemy units, or simply buffing/debuffing. For example, Birona's Time Warp should DOUBLE the movement speed of whichever unit is targeted (this is how it functioned in tabletop), but currently is relegated to a percentage movement buff that is barely noticeable.

    Tangent aside, the Wood Elves seriously need options like this to deal with enemy fast movers. Vanguard deployed squigs, enemy cavalry, wolf riders, and pretty much any flyer in the game represent a SERIOUS threat to Wood Elf archers. Spears by themselves wont cut it for protection, and Wood Elf cavalry is expensive and not good in head on engagements (although its fantastic for hammer and anvil and quickly murdering enemy routers) (Wild Riders should really have a charge bonus of 80+, not 46).

    Wood Elf archers time to kill simply isnt fast enough without an ability like this, and they're so incredibly squishy and tough to protect against a competent opponent, that a low cooldown Net spell like this is one of the only ways you're actually going to get good use out of your archers against a lot of enemy mobility.
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 462
    edited December 2016
    0:55 That is not Overwatch. Its Total War: Warhammer. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    "Flying units felt like cheating" -Alisdair Jarrold, CA Lead Battle designer (may 2016)
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    Nicely done, was pretty close.
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    ProR2D2 said:

    0:55 That is not Overwatch. Its Total War: Warhammer. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Cheers love, the Great Eagle's here!
  • HeroofRome1HeroofRome1 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,620
    Indypride said:

    ProR2D2 said:

    0:55 That is not Overwatch. Its Total War: Warhammer. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Cheers love, the Great Eagle's here!
    I can't wait to make an entire stack of those things. Yes, I love eagles.
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    Mooncake said:

    Does the male Glade Lord have a unique special ability?

    Male Glade Lord has Call of the Woods +8 passive melee attack buff in 30m AOE. and Deadly Onslaught +18% charge and AP damage. Female Glade Lord has Arrow of Kurnous magic missile and Prey of Anath Raema net ability, and passive Eye of Kurnous +12% missile damage to all allied units in 30m AOE.

    Female Glade Lord is unequivocally better than her male counterpart in my opinion. Other than their abilities, they have identical stats.
  • epic_159733007811cHJwei4epic_159733007811cHJwei4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,549
    Could Waywatchers be made into a hybrid unit I wonder? They're kind of like elite scouts or whatnot so if they could fight effectively in melee (more so than even quarrellers) it might let them go off on their own a bit more as they could fight in melee as well as range.

    Also thank you for the video!
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 651
    edited December 2016
    Kind of strange that Arrow of Kurnous is unique to her, but she definitely seems to be the go to choice for mp. The net is pretty indispensable.
    Post edited by Mooncake on
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729
    alex33 said:

    I don't have time to watch videos right now but to wildwood rangers still use the greatswords animation?

    They have a different set of animations, and a unique spinning attack animation. They hold the Glaives the same way as they did in CA's gameplay when standing still. When they run they turn the blade to the side so that the edge is facing down and blade is across their body
  • JDog91JDog91 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 526
    CA have really done the Wood Elves serious justice from an aesthetic standpoint, I just want to go through all of the artists sketchpads/work and drool. Release a full blown artbook pretty please? ;)

    Great commentary indy. Looks well worth the asking price, even more so than the Beastmen were.
  • ForSigmarForSigmar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 196
    Indypride said:

    ForSigmar said:

    That net spell from the Glade lord seems very very Strong. Net of Am at least cost winds of magic....... so it is limited in the number of times it can be cast. How long does it last normally? I get that Wood elves need ways to keep enemies at range but it should probably be a slow and not an outright net since it has no limit on the number of casts and it makes the unit more vulnerable to range sniping.

    It is very strong. I'd like CA to keep it that way. Some people look at Net of Amyntok and Prey of Anath Raema and say they're OP, but I think its more a case of so many spells in Total War Warhammer currently being completely underwhelming. I would LOVE for their to be more spells and abilities like this, that provide a ton of utility but perform a function other than outright damaging or killing enemy units, or simply buffing/debuffing. For example, Birona's Time Warp should DOUBLE the movement speed of whichever unit is targeted (this is how it functioned in tabletop), but currently is relegated to a percentage movement buff that is barely noticeable.

    Tangent aside, the Wood Elves seriously need options like this to deal with enemy fast movers. Vanguard deployed squigs, enemy cavalry, wolf riders, and pretty much any flyer in the game represent a SERIOUS threat to Wood Elf archers. Spears by themselves wont cut it for protection, and Wood Elf cavalry is expensive and not good in head on engagements (although its fantastic for hammer and anvil and quickly murdering enemy routers) (Wild Riders should really have a charge bonus of 80+, not 46).

    Wood Elf archers time to kill simply isnt fast enough without an ability like this, and they're so incredibly squishy and tough to protect against a competent opponent, that a low cooldown Net spell like this is one of the only ways you're actually going to get good use out of your archers against a lot of enemy mobility.
    I completely agree with your assessment of spells, I wish they would make them more unique and more powerful. Would love to see Timewarp not only double speed but also buff attack speed as it should from the TT. I am just curious if the timer on that ability needs to be lowered or duration reduced once the meta settles as it is very strong being able to net an unlimited amount of times on a lord that can kite and shoot.

    Anyway, Thanks for the info! The video was excellent and I cannot wait to get my hands on the WEs in a day
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,693
    edited December 2016
    Indypride said:

    Mooncake said:

    Does the male Glade Lord have a unique special ability?

    Male Glade Lord has Call of the Woods +8 passive melee attack buff in 30m AOE. and Deadly Onslaught +18% charge and AP damage. Female Glade Lord has Arrow of Kurnous magic missile and Prey of Anath Raema net ability, and passive Eye of Kurnous +12% missile damage to all allied units in 30m AOE.

    Female Glade Lord is unequivocally better than her male counterpart in my opinion. Other than their abilities, they have identical stats.
    Interesting, so if I understand this correctly, they made two variants of the same campaign lord and made one ranged focused and the other melee focused? Am I correct in saying that in the campaign, female and male lords are nothing more than an aesthetic choice which could be leveled up into one of the two lords found in MP?
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  • harngersteinharngerstein Registered Users Posts: 860
    Interesting, so if I understand this correctly, they made two variants of the same campaign lord and made one ranged focused and the other melee focused? Am I correct in saying that in the campaign, female and male lords are nothing more than an aesthetic choice which could be leveled up into one of the two lords found in MP?

    Yes, In campaign the Glade Lords possess the same skill tree irrespective of gender. They are essentially just different models with different voices. You can spec em however you want.

    Its wild how little use the male glade lord appears to possess in MP. What is the equivalent melee skill which corresponds to Prey?

    Also: What is the point of Forest Stalker granting an increase in accuracy if all the arrows just bounce off trees anyways?

  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,329
    alex33 said:

    I don't have time to watch videos right now but to wildwood rangers still use the greatswords animation?

    I reeeally wished CA would reposition the weapon, so that they actually held them like the TT minis.





    The way they're doing it right now looks kinda awkward. I wonder whats the reason for that. In theory one would only have to move the joint in the weapon a bit. Do CA's models really slide their hands all over the shaft that it would cause clipping otherwise?

    If we were allowed to load 3D assets ourself, this would be really easy to mod.
  • bennymclbennymcl Senior Member Montreal, CanadaRegistered Users Posts: 2,797
    Another great vid, Indy. Like I mentioned on the video comments over there, the diversity of these new races and the sheer size of the differences that we are getting between units now is adding so much awesomeness to these battles. Like the net and summoning ability/spells being more frequent and effectively upping the "spur of the moment" tactics that can be employed. The glass cannon-ness of the whole army and the micro requirements make it so much fun to watch.

    Really excited to play this campaign. Durthu looks like a beast.
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,880
    JDog91 said:

    CA have really done the Wood Elves serious justice from an aesthetic standpoint, I just want to go through all of the artists sketchpads/work and drool. Release a full blown artbook pretty please? ;)

    Great commentary indy. Looks well worth the asking price, even more so than the Beastmen were.

    +1 to releasing a book of artwork. That should go in the suggestions forum I guess.
  • bennymclbennymcl Senior Member Montreal, CanadaRegistered Users Posts: 2,797
    Stephince said:

    JDog91 said:

    CA have really done the Wood Elves serious justice from an aesthetic standpoint, I just want to go through all of the artists sketchpads/work and drool. Release a full blown artbook pretty please? ;)

    Great commentary indy. Looks well worth the asking price, even more so than the Beastmen were.

    +1 to releasing a book of artwork. That should go in the suggestions forum I guess.
    I would pay for an artwork book from the entire process when all is said and done.
  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 4,075
    forest stalker: stand on edge of forest and shoot while in cover. When enemy charges, retreat deeper into forest.
  • RavenTheWargamerRavenTheWargamer Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 154
    Indypride said:

    I think the female Glade Lord with Prey of Anath Raema is one of the most versatile and awesome lord characters in the game.

    Is there a difference between male and female glade lords?
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,693

    Indypride said:

    I think the female Glade Lord with Prey of Anath Raema is one of the most versatile and awesome lord characters in the game.

    Is there a difference between male and female glade lords?
    In campaign they are the same, but you have to make a choice between melee or missile focus as you level up the character. It seem they used that opportunity to make one that is built for range and one that is better at melee in custom battles / MP.
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  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729

    Could Waywatchers be made into a hybrid unit I wonder? They're kind of like elite scouts or whatnot so if they could fight effectively in melee (more so than even quarrellers) it might let them go off on their own a bit more as they could fight in melee as well as range.

    Also thank you for the video!

    You're very welcome! I'd rather their ranged damage get buffed to be honest. I really think for 1200 gold they should be scary as hell as soon as you enter their range. They should be glassy, I'm fine with them dying in melee to a stiff wind. But I really feel like they either need significantly longer range than other archers, or higher armor piercing, to justify that obscene cost. There are just so few scenarios where firing in 360 arc or being hidden while shooting is worth the cost of another full armor piercing archer unit.

    So making them "good" in melee is a route CA could definitely take, but I'd prefer they focus on their ranged damage output.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,406
    "Beside having some an absolutely gorgeous model of some unfortunate bretonnian corpse chilling on her back." Nicely said. :D
  • JastalllJastalll Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,443
    Treekin seem very tanky. Seems one of them took on a Ungor Spearmen unit as well as a Chaos Spawn all at once and basically won the engagement in the long run.

    Morghur's special power seems... I don't know, a bit OP? It apparently has a pretty short range on a Lord that's on foot, but regardless, being able to summon 4 Chaos Spawn (so 4k gold) in a battle while instakilling 4 low HP units is a very, very powerful effect.

    The Lord seemed indeed to be quite strong. Tough flying mount, 1-target Net, decent magic missile, high damage ranged attack.

    The archers did seem very squishy, and not that powerful. So you won't be able to just spam archers. In a way that's a good thing, but I do hope Elven archery is better than the peasant bowmen of Bretonnia if only for flavor's sake.

    All in all, good show. I do think the art on the WEs is particularily well done.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,722
    the trees are too tanky imo and waywatchers are very waek.
    also morghur also have 75% magic resistance

  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,729

    Treekin seem very tanky. Seems one of them took on a Ungor Spearmen unit as well as a Chaos Spawn all at once and basically won the engagement in the long run.

    Morghur's special power seems... I don't know, a bit OP? It apparently has a pretty short range on a Lord that's on foot, but regardless, being able to summon 4 Chaos Spawn (so 4k gold) in a battle while instakilling 4 low HP units is a very, very powerful effect.

    The Lord seemed indeed to be quite strong. Tough flying mount, 1-target Net, decent magic missile, high damage ranged attack.

    The archers did seem very squishy, and not that powerful. So you won't be able to just spam archers. In a way that's a good thing, but I do hope Elven archery is better than the peasant bowmen of Bretonnia if only for flavor's sake.

    All in all, good show. I do think the art on the WEs is particularily well done.

    He can only instakill 2 low HP units. The Stave of Ruinous Corruption is his other Chaos Spawn summoning spell, and it doesnt do any damage. So all in all he can use both abilities twice each. Its a really cool ability and definitely good, but they lose HP very fast. I haven't seen it be very OP in a battle yet, they serve more to disrupt formations and dish out a bit of damage before fading away then outright murdering units when they get summoned.
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