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Warriors of Chaos Overhaul

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  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users

    I could do with some AoS units as long as the storyline is kept out...

    Unfortunately, the AoS units would require AoS fluff. CA could make their own units with the look and concept of AoS units. I wouldn't mind, but I lot of them are leaking heavily into 40k warhammer. And 40k warhammer has the the most boring and ugly units...to me at least.

    Those guys look too much like Kolek though. And Kolek wouldn't appreciate such mockery.

    I like the canon wheel though. I think chaos has some interesting AoS units that can cross over as well, but that's the problem. We would be very picky choosy, and probably wouldn't buy the units anyway.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    I wouldn't mind my dragon ogres being that armored though...
    Post edited by Combat_Wombat on
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    edited January 2017


    Those guys look too much like Kolek though. And Kolek wouldn't appreciate such mockery.


    Looks like he took his clothes off ...and grew hooves
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited January 2017

    Also I can't emphasize this enough. Maruders need more variations.


    I say marauders need more head variants, but the chaos warriors could use the them as well. As they too have too many no helmet replicas as well (bold guy and mo hawk). I or someone else could mod it if CA actually modeled more head variants for marauders. Also their color coordinated red cloaks and decoration is off putting. So I recomment this mod for recoloring. It's essential for me now. --> Archaon's Host - Recolor http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=718191447

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,616Registered Users

    I could do with some AoS units as long as the storyline is kept out...

    "No AoS content in TWWH", GW decreed.

  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    I could do with some AoS units as long as the storyline is kept out...

    "No AoS content in TWWH", GW decreed.
    I actually want to see a mod for AoS and other fantasy settings just so GW gets all fussed and makes more decisions that are easily condemnable by the the community.
    Cuz **** Konami- I mean GW.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,616Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Since that would mean in the worst case GW pulling the license and TWWH ending prematurely or in the best case the end of official mod support I'd rather not.

  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    well well well.....Look at what I found Mr. Dalton. Going to read all of it and discuss it later. But it looks interesting. :smile:

    Having completed several WoC campaigns now, I think I have an idea for how to spice their gameplay up. There are two random events you can encounter, The Eye Opens and The Eye Closes, denoting waxing or waning attention by the Chaos Gods. I thought, why not make that into a mechanic in itself?

    So this is what I have in mind, introduce a Divine Attention meter. To fill it up you need to do "exalted deeds", something like

    -razing cities and erect chaos shrines (however only counts once for every city)
    -kill high-ranking enemy characters, wound LLs (again, counts only once for them)
    -sacrifice captives to the Chaos Gods
    -spread chaotic corruption until it hits certain thresholds of total map-wide corruption (counts only once for every milestone)
    -annihilate non-chaos aligned factions (only once for every faction)
    -fulfilling missions
    -winning quest battles

    If Divine Attention reaches certain levels you receive gifts from the Chaos Gods like marks, gear or banners and stat bonuses for your troops. I also think that when you reach Full Attention your troops become immune to infighting since you're now unquestionably the true Champion of the Gods.
    However, the Chaos Gods are a fickle lot that gets bored easily, so you can also lose Divine Attention, like by

    -losing battles, characters and stacks
    -failing missions
    -ending a turn with your men outside raiding/encampment stance without them having done any exalted deeds that turn (separate for every stack you own)
    -total chaotic corruption dropping below certain thresholds
    -making peace or striking treaties with non-chaos aligned factions

    If Divine Attention is low your troops fight increasingly worse. If it drops all the way too zero you suffer mutinies as other potential champions challenge your leadership.

    I think this should be represented by an eye icon on top of the UI that opens or closes in accord to how much Divine Attention the players has.

    I think this would spice up the WoC campaign quite nicels. What do you think?

  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users

    well well well.....Look at what I found Mr. Dalton. Going to read all of it and discuss it later. But it looks interesting. :smile:

    Having completed several WoC campaigns now, I think I have an idea for how to spice their gameplay up. There are two random events you can encounter, The Eye Opens and The Eye Closes, denoting waxing or waning attention by the Chaos Gods. I thought, why not make that into a mechanic in itself?

    So this is what I have in mind, introduce a Divine Attention meter. To fill it up you need to do "exalted deeds", something like

    -razing cities and erect chaos shrines (however only counts once for every city)
    -kill high-ranking enemy characters, wound LLs (again, counts only once for them)
    -sacrifice captives to the Chaos Gods
    -spread chaotic corruption until it hits certain thresholds of total map-wide corruption (counts only once for every milestone)
    -annihilate non-chaos aligned factions (only once for every faction)
    -fulfilling missions
    -winning quest battles

    If Divine Attention reaches certain levels you receive gifts from the Chaos Gods like marks, gear or banners and stat bonuses for your troops. I also think that when you reach Full Attention your troops become immune to infighting since you're now unquestionably the true Champion of the Gods.
    However, the Chaos Gods are a fickle lot that gets bored easily, so you can also lose Divine Attention, like by

    -losing battles, characters and stacks
    -failing missions
    -ending a turn with your men outside raiding/encampment stance without them having done any exalted deeds that turn (separate for every stack you own)
    -total chaotic corruption dropping below certain thresholds
    -making peace or striking treaties with non-chaos aligned factions

    If Divine Attention is low your troops fight increasingly worse. If it drops all the way too zero you suffer mutinies as other potential champions challenge your leadership.

    I think this should be represented by an eye icon on top of the UI that opens or closes in accord to how much Divine Attention the players has.

    I think this would spice up the WoC campaign quite nicels. What do you think?

    Sounds like a great mechanic EXCEPT the part where you losefavoe for failing missions. I fail a lot of missions because 90% of the time they are **** stupid missions not worth my time to even consider. If I have to run around doing these pointless missions just to keep my army from tearing itself apart like a bunch of feral Skaven, I'll go mad.
  • MalcolmMalcolm Posts: 226Registered Users
    Dude this is a fantastic idea! This would really make chaos more interesting to play if they can build dread citadels in provincial capitals. Maybe to build them after you conquered the place should cost a large amount of favor to build them, it should make you pick carefully where to build them so you don't spam them. I find it annoying when playing chaos that when you go south away from the Norsca there is no safe place to rebuild your numbers and it takes ages rebuild your army.

    Also as a defender of the old world, it would encourage you to help your allies more or you may see their capitals became dread citadels that will create more chaos nasties to terrorize you. So it is in your best interest to help your allies and make sure they don't fall.

    I really really hope CA use some of your ideas. You should have been on the chaos development team. :smile:
    Team Empire - For Sigmar!
    Team Bretonnia - For the Lady!
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    Malcolm said:

    Dude this is a fantastic idea! This would really make chaos more interesting to play if they can build dread citadels in provincial capitals. Maybe to build them after you conquered the place should cost a large amount of favor to build them, it should make you pick carefully where to build them so you don't spam them. I find it annoying when playing chaos that when you go south away from the Norsca there is no safe place to rebuild your numbers and it takes ages rebuild your army.

    Also as a defender of the old world, it would encourage you to help your allies more or you may see their capitals became dread citadels that will create more chaos nasties to terrorize you. So it is in your best interest to help your allies and make sure they don't fall.

    I really really hope CA use some of your ideas. You should have been on the chaos development team. :smile:

    This.

    Also hopefully since those citadels would probably be rare, they should create a siege map for them.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    KGpoopy said:

    Malcolm said:

    Dude this is a fantastic idea! This would really make chaos more interesting to play if they can build dread citadels in provincial capitals. Maybe to build them after you conquered the place should cost a large amount of favor to build them, it should make you pick carefully where to build them so you don't spam them. I find it annoying when playing chaos that when you go south away from the Norsca there is no safe place to rebuild your numbers and it takes ages rebuild your army.

    Also as a defender of the old world, it would encourage you to help your allies more or you may see their capitals became dread citadels that will create more chaos nasties to terrorize you. So it is in your best interest to help your allies and make sure they don't fall.

    I really really hope CA use some of your ideas. You should have been on the chaos development team. :smile:

    This.

    Also hopefully since those citadels would probably be rare, they should create a siege map for them.
    I demand a siege map!
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    @Malcolm

    Thanks man, I'll give credit to the people in the discussion as well. As they suggested some changes and smoothed some rough spots. I hope CA likes it as well. One of the Devs. said he liked my ideas and he may bring them to life. So things are looking up for the WoC in time. He particularly liked chaos agents manipulating other agents to join their cause.

    Yeah I'm glad you realize how terrifying that would be as a defender. That's what we were going for. And as for playing as them yeah it would be quite interesting. Especially with the freedom that chaos has in how they can affect the map. It would make corrupting it and turning it into a realm for the dark gods more meaningful gameplay wise. Also that's a good idea of yours to make building these citadels cost a bit, but keep in mind that to be able to build them you need to corrupt the province to certain percentage. Which is difficult in itself. At least for me. But razing minor settlements can accelerate the corruption of the capitals. As these razed former settlements now have that floating ring that corrupts the region and bordering regions. Which I think is brilliant.

    KGpoopy said:

    Malcolm said:

    Dude this is a fantastic idea! This would really make chaos more interesting to play if they can build dread citadels in provincial capitals. Maybe to build them after you conquered the place should cost a large amount of favor to build them, it should make you pick carefully where to build them so you don't spam them. I find it annoying when playing chaos that when you go south away from the Norsca there is no safe place to rebuild your numbers and it takes ages rebuild your army.

    Also as a defender of the old world, it would encourage you to help your allies more or you may see their capitals became dread citadels that will create more chaos nasties to terrorize you. So it is in your best interest to help your allies and make sure they don't fall.

    I really really hope CA use some of your ideas. You should have been on the chaos development team. :smile:

    This.

    Also hopefully since those citadels would probably be rare, they should create a siege map for them.

    KGpoopy said:

    Malcolm said:

    Dude this is a fantastic idea! This would really make chaos more interesting to play if they can build dread citadels in provincial capitals. Maybe to build them after you conquered the place should cost a large amount of favor to build them, it should make you pick carefully where to build them so you don't spam them. I find it annoying when playing chaos that when you go south away from the Norsca there is no safe place to rebuild your numbers and it takes ages rebuild your army.

    Also as a defender of the old world, it would encourage you to help your allies more or you may see their capitals became dread citadels that will create more chaos nasties to terrorize you. So it is in your best interest to help your allies and make sure they don't fall.

    I really really hope CA use some of your ideas. You should have been on the chaos development team. :smile:

    This.

    Also hopefully since those citadels would probably be rare, they should create a siege map for them.
    I demand a siege map!
    That's probably half of the reason why I posted these concepts for the citadels and their walls for a siege. KG you even posted some yourself :lol:







  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    Couple more thoughts and suggestions

    Archaon should get a overhaul. Meaning his skills and combat prowess. Also his fire magic is really disappointing.

    The citadels can have a slight resemblance to the capital it took over. Or not...and it could be like they burned it completely to the ground, and built a chaos citadel. But these siege maps should have at least some variant in weather conditions or atmosphere and location. Obviously Terry can help with this but I think a snow and altdorf-like terrain should be sufficient.

    The fortified citadel should have a least 2 stages of siege assault. Obviously the first being the walls, and the second being the in the inside with choke points and capture points. But I'm sure the community would make cool siege maps for these fortresses.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    Archaon should get a overhaul. Meaning his skills and combat prowess. Also his fire magic is really disappointing.

    I would give him the Orion treatment. Scrap the fire magic and give him his own exclusive abilities. Just give him fire abilities of his own like Orion can cast the "hounds of orion" and the "hawk's talon". Also redo or add a new tree to increase his power or the power of his army significantly. CA was not afraid of making Leoncocur and Orion really strong, so now it's time to make Archaon really strong. I wound increase his melee defense and weapon strength. CA should give him something that would make him stand out from the generic stuff he has other than his items and aesthetic. They should make him a fearful LL. Probably the most powerful in the game.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited February 2017
    The WoC can start out with a place in the waste. It could be the "Inevitable city" or the citadels we are talking about. If it's the "Inevitable city", then it can play a Oak of ages role as a support and refuge place. If not, then they can start with a regular citadel. Starting out with a regular citadel would make more sense anyway. (Remember there is no economic buildings here, they are not "settlements")

    Something like this thing in-game....

  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    Buildings. Something we didn't really go over thoroughly. And even still it's up to CA on how and what the buildings would be. But here is my thoughts.

    Military Recruitment
    This can pretty much stay the same. Actually the current buildings would make a lot more sense with our idea If you read what they are :smile: . All except the chaos warshrine. Which could possibly become a unit with this idea, instead of a building that unlocks chosen units.

    Advanced Military Recruitment

    This can stay the same.

    Defense

    Could be the standard defense chain with the garrison tiers. Would be interesting to see what units CA would put in the defense garrison. Also they could add a building chain in defense that lowers enemy agent success chance.

    Infrastructure
    None. At least nothing that makes money.

    Temples and Shrines

    Building chains that boost winds of magic and movement range.
    Building chains that increase the fighting prowess of units.
    Success chance of agents/hero
    :wink: Unlock Chaos Warshrine :wink:
    CA can do some interesting things with shrines and temples for chaos.

    Even tech. and favor and get some changes.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users

    Buildings. Something we didn't really go over thoroughly. And even still it's up to CA on how and what the buildings would be. But here is my thoughts.

    Military Recruitment
    This can pretty much stay the same. Actually the current buildings would make a lot more sense with our idea If you read what they are :smile: . All except the chaos warshrine. Which could possibly become a unit with this idea, instead of a building that unlocks chosen units.

    Advanced Military Recruitment

    This can stay the same.

    Defense

    Could be the standard defense chain with the garrison tiers. Would be interesting to see what units CA would put in the defense garrison. Also they could add a building chain in defense that lowers enemy agent success chance.

    Infrastructure
    None. At least nothing that makes money.

    Temples and Shrines

    Building chains that boost winds of magic and movement range.
    Building chains that increase the fighting prowess of units.
    Success chance of agents/hero
    :wink: Unlock Chaos Warshrine :wink:
    CA can do some interesting things with shrines and temples for chaos.

    Even tech. and favor and get some changes.

    Yeah a lot of those recruiting buildings would make a lot more sense with stationary "buildings". Like the dragon ogres and cavalry. Don't forget about recruiting heros and future LLs. I like the idea of destroying Pragg and recruiting Throgg the troll king, and dragon ogres from there. It just makes sense. With Infrastructure, they can make a port and recruit Wulfric the Wanderer and chaos ships from that.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users

    Archaon should get a overhaul. Meaning his skills and combat prowess. Also his fire magic is really disappointing.

    I would give him the Orion treatment. Scrap the fire magic and give him his own exclusive abilities. Just give him fire abilities of his own like Orion can cast the "hounds of orion" and the "hawk's talon". Also redo or add a new tree to increase his power or the power of his army significantly. CA was not afraid of making Leoncocur and Orion really strong, so now it's time to make Archaon really strong. I wound increase his melee defense and weapon strength. CA should give him something that would make him stand out from the generic stuff he has other than his items and aesthetic. They should make him a fearful LL. Probably the most powerful in the game.
    I can agree with this, but I think it's to balance multiplayer. They went a little soft with Archaon and now he's not even used in multiplayer. I think he should be the best melee LL and and he should really buff his army.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    If the chaos citadel thing is established here, I want to consider something else. I think there must be something that makes playing them fun from turn to turn. I'm playing a beastmen campaign and I already played the Orcs. They are very simple to deal with playing as them. You attack stuff, build your army up, and attack more stuff. It can get repetitive and there is not much thinking involved. Which means I will quit the campaign eventually when I'm done bashing my head on a wall playing these battles over and over without anything to do otherwise. It's fun, but I eventually will hang it up after a while without caring about the end objective.

    I'm completely fine if that's the way people like to play. Like I said, I had fun for a while. Those two races are perfect for people who just want to wreck the campaign and paint it green, or brown...(if your the beastmen :trollface: ).
    Now you might think, "this is the part where he ask for politics and diplomacy options", But no, you would be very wrong.

    Here's something I posted in another thread about this. I think the chaos campaign should give you something to think about much like the wood elves and bretonnia. Peasants, amber, Chivalry, and all that. I think the WoC should have to think about the Dark gods favor or pleasing them or doing something that gives you a challenge turn after turn other than painting the map red and being done with it.

    What I'm saying is, I think the WoC should be more than a beastmen-like campaign and more than a Orc-like campaign. Especially as a DLC race, it should represent the improvements to the game. But we all know why chaos dlc is not as impressive as wood elves or bretonnia flc. So on top of this really good citadel idea, I would like a more complex campaign for chaos. I don't mean rocket science, and I'm certainly not talking Skaven complexity, but something interesting and fun/challenging.

    I know this is vague, but I intentionally said it this way to invite ideas and discussion.
  • RifugioRifugio Member Posts: 864Registered Users
    Perhaps not so much for Chaos Undivided, but I think the machinations of the individual chaos Gods could be equally complex and involving as the Skaven.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190926/the-enemy-within
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    KGpoopy said:

    If the chaos citadel thing is established here, I want to consider something else. I think there must be something that makes playing them fun from turn to turn. I'm playing a beastmen campaign and I already played the Orcs. They are very simple to deal with playing as them. You attack stuff, build your army up, and attack more stuff. It can get repetitive and there is not much thinking involved. Which means I will quit the campaign eventually when I'm done bashing my head on a wall playing these battles over and over without anything to do otherwise. It's fun, but I eventually will hang it up after a while without caring about the end objective.

    I'm completely fine if that's the way people like to play. Like I said, I had fun for a while. Those two races are perfect for people who just want to wreck the campaign and paint it green, or brown...(if your the beastmen :trollface: ).
    Now you might think, "this is the part where he ask for politics and diplomacy options", But no, you would be very wrong.

    Here's something I posted in another thread about this. I think the chaos campaign should give you something to think about much like the wood elves and bretonnia. Peasants, amber, Chivalry, and all that. I think the WoC should have to think about the Dark gods favor or pleasing them or doing something that gives you a challenge turn after turn other than painting the map red and being done with it.

    What I'm saying is, I think the WoC should be more than a beastmen-like campaign and more than a Orc-like campaign. Especially as a DLC race, it should represent the improvements to the game. But we all know why chaos dlc is not as impressive as wood elves or bretonnia flc. So on top of this really good citadel idea, I would like a more complex campaign for chaos. I don't mean rocket science, and I'm certainly not talking Skaven complexity, but something interesting and fun/challenging.

    I know this is vague, but I intentionally said it this way to invite ideas and discussion.

    Yep I agree completely. As they say for the best video games, it's not the ending that matters most, but the journey. Even though we should know that's an excuse for bad endings but nevermind and anyway...

    There are a couple post by @doclumbago @kilijan @HorseWithNoName and @TeNoSkill and @Ephraim_Dalton
    about this on this thread.

    But I'll see if I can think of anything too.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    Rifugio said:

    Perhaps not so much for Chaos Undivided, but I think the machinations of the individual chaos Gods could be equally complex and involving as the Skaven.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190926/the-enemy-within

    I guess so, but all four dark gods are at work in Chaos Undivided. WoC can have a combination of features and gameplay styles. Even if they can do it to a lesser degree to sell the Daemons of chaos.

    Also with your Enemy Within concept it's an idea that takes sending an agent to a region and deploying to a more in depth matter of things. Which is a general and broad idea that doesn't specifically tie in with chaos. It makes deploying more engaging gameplay wise but I don't think there is much WoC heroes can do other than corrupt the region and normal agent stuff.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,616Registered Users
    If you introduce safe havens and garrisons for the WoC everywhere they destroy stuff you'll just make their campaign even more boring than it already is.

    Why do you want to make them lame to play? Aren't they already pretty vanilla as far as gameplay is concerned?

  • RifugioRifugio Member Posts: 864Registered Users
    KGpoopy said:

    Rifugio said:

    Perhaps not so much for Chaos Undivided, but I think the machinations of the individual chaos Gods could be equally complex and involving as the Skaven.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190926/the-enemy-within

    I guess so, but all four dark gods are at work in Chaos Undivided. WoC can have a combination of features and gameplay styles. Even if they can do it to a lesser degree to sell the Daemons of chaos.

    Also with your Enemy Within concept it's an idea that takes sending an agent to a region and deploying to a more in depth matter of things. Which is a general and broad idea that doesn't specifically tie in with chaos. It makes deploying more engaging gameplay wise but I don't think there is much WoC heroes can do other than corrupt the region and normal agent stuff.
    Eventually I'd like to see an Chaos initially divided into at least five main campaign factions to allow you to choose whether you want to champion one Chaos God or play as Undivided. It really only makes sense if the individual chaos factions are each vying for power and as much at war with each other as other factions. Khorne and Undivided would really concentrate more on the battlefields and horde gameplay. But, the idea is for Chaos heroes to have significant abilities, as the Enemy Within. For example being able to disrupt alliances, subvert lords and their armies to their cause and perhaps unleash terrible vengeance in settlements if given enough time and resources to operate.

    Of course the irony here is that pulling off major coups in the enemy within campaign would further the individual Gods goals, which would be add odds with the other Gods so they would be also battling them in this secret war.

    I wouldn't have unifying Chaos as a victory condition for all of the factions at least in the short campaigns. So making it possible for you to win as Slaanesh, or Nurgle, but making that harder to achieve.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited March 2017

    If you introduce safe havens and garrisons for the WoC everywhere they destroy stuff you'll just make their campaign even more boring than it already is.

    Why do you want to make them lame to play? Aren't they already pretty vanilla as far as gameplay is concerned?

    Well it's not exactly that simple.
    Chaos structures can only be built in provinces of high corruption (75 or higher). This would emphasize the corrupting warping nature of chaos. It would destabilize the enemy province, and highlight the dynamic changes CA implemented with the chaos corruption on the map. In addition to that reasoning, these fortresses are ideally not built by the warriors, but by cultists, slaves, and daemons, hints why the high corruption is needed. Also the reason why the high corruption makes sense is because the armies of chaos need to be raiding, sacking, and pillaging instead of erecting cites or fortresses all over the place like a normal human race would. So there needs to be a corruption check before we get the options to sack, raze, or take over.

    -The chaos structures are exclusive to province capitals. The minor settlements are left to being razed or sacked. Razing the minor settlement would boost the corruption rate of the provincial capital . Sacking would of course bring in loads of money or dark favor.

    -The buildings themselves would be only military and technology beneficial. Unlock new units, buildings and technologies, that boost unit strength, replenishment, growth, decrease upkeep etc. These places would not provide any income because the income is reliant on sacking and raiding.

    -The WoC can start with a place already, or they can start the same way they start now, with nothing but a small army. But the latter would be so hard and interesting to work with as the player, but the AI would mess it up, so I would make them start with a dreadhold in the northern waste.

    -Diplomacy. Well there is none except for cooperation with the Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, Norsca, or any other neutral or chaos faction. But remember, with this idea, they can't sit around and have partnerships, they continue to corrupt and fight until everything is broken and destroyed, and the only thing that's left is a world reaping with chaos corruption with dark fortresses towering over the land.

    Mercii said:

    I think the capital only restriction might be good. I'd say no to trade or any kind of income benefit to keep the essential "destroying, not settling" vibe. They are just temporary fortifications to aid the invasions.

    I'd see them as pretty much like WElf outposts except they have defences and better garrions.

    The purpose would be for recruitment/replenishment or just helping 'secure' the region.

    If the region has a resource that should allow a special building, but it would give appropriate recruitment or buff bonuses rather than money (iron gives cheaper recruitment for armoured infantry for example, temple of Ulric allows 'defiled temple' that gives sorcerer or Chaos Spawn buffs etc)

    If people really have a problem with Archaon building forts you could make it for sigvald and Kolek only, if you Archaon start could have a special."Destroyer" faction trait, can't build Outposts but gets additonal Horde buffs.

    We could expand on this a little more and make it a requirement for the fortress to be destroyed before any of the cities in that province can be retaken by other factions. On the flip side the entire province would need to be razed before a fortress could go up. A little I've and take. It would make holding onto that last minor city in a province that much more important to keep a chaos fortress from popping up.

    They shouldn't be all over the place though. Province capitals only

    Military Recruitment
    This can pretty much stay the same. Actually the current buildings would make a lot more sense with our idea If you read what they are :smile: . All except the chaos warshrine. Which could possibly become a unit with this idea, instead of a building that unlocks chosen units.

    Advanced Military Recruitment
    This can stay the same.

    Defense
    Could be the standard defense chain with the garrison tiers. Would be interesting to see what units CA would put in the defense garrison. Also they could add a building chain in defense that lowers enemy agent success chance.

    Infrastructure
    None. At least nothing that makes money.

    Temples and Shrines
    Building chains that boost winds of magic and movement range.
    Building chains that increase the fighting prowess of units.
    Success chance of agents/hero
    :wink: Unlock Chaos Warshrine :wink:
    CA can do some interesting things with shrines and temples for chaos.

    Even tech. and favor and get some changes.

    Also different capitals can have special buildings that give relieve recruitment cost or upkeep or anything depending on location or special resources.
    I think buildings like the "Mound of Blades" and the "Reliquary of Chaos" should be essential for these citadels(can't make my mind up on what to actually call these places) . These buildings give all units experience points which increase their ranking and their stats, making them a little tougher . Regarding the system we made, depending on what capital you conquered, especially if it has a special resource to it,-- it could have a special building chain to make


    And what @KGpoopy said as well is important as well. It's even more vital to making chaos more enjoyable to play as.
    KGpoopy said:

    If the chaos citadel thing is established here, I want to consider something else. I think there must be something that makes playing them fun from turn to turn. I'm playing a beastmen campaign and I already played the Orcs. They are very simple to deal with playing as them. You attack stuff, build your army up, and attack more stuff. It can get repetitive and there is not much thinking involved. Which means I will quit the campaign eventually when I'm done bashing my head on a wall playing these battles over and over without anything to do otherwise. It's fun, but I eventually will hang it up after a while without caring about the end objective.

    I'm completely fine if that's the way people like to play. Like I said, I had fun for a while. Those two races are perfect for people who just want to wreck the campaign and paint it green, or brown...(if your the beastmen :trollface: ).
    Now you might think, "this is the part where he ask for politics and diplomacy options", But no, you would be very wrong.

    Here's something I posted in another thread about this. I think the chaos campaign should give you something to think about much like the wood elves and bretonnia. Peasants, amber, Chivalry, and all that. I think the WoC should have to think about the Dark gods favor or pleasing them or doing something that gives you a challenge turn after turn other than painting the map red and being done with it.

    What I'm saying is, I think the WoC should be more than a beastmen-like campaign and more than a Orc-like campaign. Especially as a DLC race, it should represent the improvements to the game. But we all know why chaos dlc is not as impressive as wood elves or bretonnia flc. So on top of this really good citadel idea, I would like a more complex campaign for chaos. I don't mean rocket science, and I'm certainly not talking Skaven complexity, but something interesting and fun/challenging.

    I know this is vague, but I intentionally said it this way to invite ideas and discussion.

  • defenderofberkdefenderofberk Posts: 33Registered Users
    I disagree with your point on no Archaon infighting.

    If Archaon going to kill everyone who opposes him then that is going to reduce the ranks which is what attrition does anyway.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 4,092Registered Users
    Alright I have the beginnings of an idea... Maybe Chaos need a new type of agent that infiltrates cities to followers in a city, increasing chaos corruption in the area, and giving Chaos some dark favor

    I disagree with your point on no Archaon infighting.

    If Archaon going to kill everyone who opposes him then that is going to reduce the ranks which is what attrition does anyway.

    The people challenging Archaon won't be his chaos knights,chaos warriors, forsaken, marauders, trolls, etc. He's also the undisputed Everchosen. People are NOT going to oppose him.

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