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The Lores of Magic tt accuracy vs gameplay viability vs creativity

SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176
edited December 2016 in Feedback & Suggestions
Ok so a prior warning as this is going to be abominably long, so for the sake of anyone insane enough to read and review, i have put an intro of what each section contains! please don't quote the entire thing, oh god have you seen the scrollbar on my wood elf thread!? XD!

~Section 1~ Intro+important questions
~Section 2~ Spell selection systems
~Section 3~ Dispel System
~Section 4~ go over each the spells and possible changes, order is Fire > Metal > Light > Death > Heavens> Shadow > Life > Beasts (this is the longest part, contains reworks on some spells + new spell suggestions)
~Section 5~ Closing statement

~Section 1~ Intro

So here I am, making a thread about magic, should it be like the Lore or more like table top? should Ca have creative freedom to make there own unique spells? should CA Cater to total war historical fans?

-Should CA have creative freedom?
Yes, most Definitely, Creative freedom with magic is a key part of my discussion here!
In the lore of Warhammer magic is used for many a thing outside of just how its used in table top or for battle... for example fire mages are used as fire fighters and Heaven wizards are used to foretell the weather or just give people good dreams! the only limit on what magic can do is your imagination... well that and creating oceans of lightning that take up the whole screen, mages aren't that powerful!
Because of this massive amount of freedom we CA can freely create spells to add variety to each of the Lores of magic, to add spells that wouldnt function in a turn based scenario and to even flesh out the lore a bit!
Hey, CA could even hold competitions for players to make new spells to add to the game! this would massively open up the game to unique, creative, wacky, wonderful ideas and mechanics that even Warhammer fans had never even imagined possible!

-How do I think magic should be? should it be like the lore? should it be like the table top?
In table top magic is a force that has varying degrees of power, it could end the entire game in a turn, let goblins kill dragons, make your lords become gods! or your mage could blow up in your face taking your lord and half your army with it
In the lore magic is pretty much a very rare godlike entity.. some of the crap it does I don't even know how to explain....
I personally feel that magic should be a key point of every engagement, it should seriously influence every single choice you make, the choice to not take a mage should be an incredibly risky one!
I want that feeling where my purple sun randomly floats and just makes half the enemy force disappear or that feeling where i bash my head against the wall in rage as it floats back and massacres my army instead...
But currently? it doesn't function like any of these, mages are a bunch of pre-teens running around with water pistols... it is currently so far away from being the terrifying landscape altering force of destruction that it could be that it isnt even a joke...

CA and Total war fans
Now CA i get why you haven't done this already , all the Non-Warhammer fans might hate it magic, but simple fact? this is Warhammer game, cater to warhammer fans, not Total war(historical) fans, you are still going to release historical titles are you not? i don't see any Elves or Orcs or Dwarves in Rome 2 or atilla, so why should magic be gimped in Warhammer because of historical players? add a tickbox that says 'no magic' and be done with it!

~Section 2~ Spell Selection systems

-Now with all the super buffs to magic I'm going to be suggesting so that magic can turn into the Destructive force it is in tabletop and the godlike entity that it is in the lore i think we need a mechanic to limit us on how many spells we can take into the battlefield and these suggestions are...

-the first is the way table top selects magic, its honestly not bad, but I don't really want to see it, why? Why not? No particular reason.... I just think the randomness of spell selection used for tabletop limits us as players away from the spells we truly love and enjoy

-the second way is a point system(which I personally like the most), each spell is assigned a point value, there's currently 3 tiers of spell, grey at 1 point, green at 2 points and blue at 5(this can be adjusted when and if they add more spells, you are also forced to take your signature spell and its free
so lets say I want to take a shadow Mage, the signature spell is Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma, so that's my first spell, I now have 10 points to spend on the rest, the second spell I know I definitely want is Okkam's Mindrazor and that's 5 points, I also know I want the Penumbral Pendulum and the withering, that's 2 points each so I now have 1 point left, so will get The Enfeebling foe that means I'm at 10 points and am unable to take the pit of shades!
this might seem like you get almost full access to your spells but keep in mind that there is some duel lore casters such as Mannfred who will be restricted a lot more! and the possibility for new creative spells to!

-The third suggestion is what I call the 'casting blockout system' this system functions by every spell being unlocked to a player, but before entering the match/campaign battle a player or ai can block usage of one spell per lore(signature spells excluded), this would allow players to ban out that one crazy ass spell like the purple sun! Or to let the enemy risk it using the purple sun and pray it waltzs back over and massacres his own units instead!

~Section 4~ Dispel System
-Now that Types of spell restrictions that I believe would work are written down I feel like we should move onto dispelling magic! is is going to have to be in if we want impactful magic, we cant just let a random Comet of Casandora come out and nearly one hit Karl Franz or his prized demigryph knights(itd be fun though).... that's a little to broken, just a little though so I propose a dispel magic System!

-The first idea is adding an ability called 'dispel magic' it would have 200 range(up for debate) and stop any spell you cast it on having a 300 second cooldown, it would also be given to to all Mages automatically, this would have to be used by casting the ability on the enemy before the spell is finished casting, and because of this having to be done during the cast time of the spell, I suggest we make all spells take 3-4 seconds to cast and add massive telegraphing with an icon appearing above the casters head with the icon for the spell they are about to use they are about to do(doesn't show where its being cast though)

-The second type of dispelling I suggest we have is a 'passive' dispel we have on our Mage units, its got an option to select 2 spells(you can select only 1 if you want to) you want to automatically dispel if the enemy trys to cast them(has 300 second cooldown), you could change the spells you want to try dispel at anytime during combat, it could also be used to play mind games and trying to bait out the dispel before you try and put down a super tier magic!

-Do keep in mind that the point of the Dispelling feature isn't to stop every single spell, its to stop the ones that you think will be impactful when they are cast, this is a very risky choice system... if you block that spell this one might hit you so much harder while its on cooldown.....

~Section 5~ Spell reworks+New spells

Straight off we should make the following changes
-change how Magic power recharges, 1 power every 20 seconds at all times, 1 power every 5 seconds during arcane conduit
-remove the magic regeneration cap(can still only hold 30 charges at once)
-all spells should do more damage, make things randomly go poof, not wonder what the breeze was
-Buffs and debuffs should be cheaper whilst still being impactful


-Prior warning, this is the massive section, I go over every single spell and give my review or suggested changes on it as well as suggesting new spells! I am basing all of my choices on my experience playing table top Warhammer for years, My experience reading a massive amount of lore in Warhammer and my Experience playing Total War Wahmmer!

The Lore of Fire
So what is the lore of fire? The lore of fire is a violent and chaotic magic that controls, manipulates and creates fire, it specializes predominately in directly attacking with fire however it has some buffs and I'm pretty sure there's some creative ways to use this lore for other things as well... but here's how I view all of the spells in this lore!

Kindleflame – passive
perfectly fine, actually really nice tbh(if fire spells actually hurt people) as a side note I hope I don't have to clarify this but I will do so just in case, as an extra passive, all spells and attacks from the bright wizard count as flaming attacks(yes fire burns)

Fireball and Piercing Bolts of Burning
now here we have the most iconic fire spells that have ever been created, the ability to throw fireballs at people... pretty much the epitome of what is imagined when we think of fire magic! I have combined these 2 because I think we need to do a switcheroo though... now before you say I'm insane hear me out on my suggestion, and here it is!
Fireball, this is a giant fireball, I think this should be the Bombardment ability, it should be that massive ball of fire that comes down and destroys does its damage in a firey explosion, much more suited to a bombardment! As a side note buffs to damage!

Now The Piercing Bolts of Burning tend to do there damage by going through units rather then blowing up.... so I think this would be better served being a magical Missile, shooting 3-4 highly penetrative magical missiles on the enemy, able to wipe out great swathes of the enemy or put down the hurt on a single target really effectively! As a side note, buffs to damage!

Cascading Fire-Cloak
there's 2 ways this can go, the way it currently is as a straight up buff spell, but I honestly think this is boring and uninspired...
so my for a change is.... suggestion is an aura that slowly burns away the health of units that are in close ombat with it! Your unit is literally on fire... being that close to it has got to hurt right!?

Flaming Sword of Rhuin
I think it should stay as an augment as its perfectly fine how it is! Strange!? I think not! CA does get some things perfect from the get go! You know, if it actually did damage that is

Flame Storm
I personally don't know how I feel about this spell.... sorry guys, its pretty much the damage oriented version of the burning head.... that does no damage? This is a goddamn giant burning hurricane! The stuff you see running at the worlds end in an apocalyptic wasteland... very very damage buff, it shouldn't be the strongest vortex spell by any means but it should certainly do at least some damage....

The Burning Head
the fire that screams....? I think this should be a spell more used to break units then about damage, it should keep its mediocre damage but get a severe boost to its terror causing! And also making its ai little more aggressive by making it go towards an enemy that's in its direct line of sight but other then that randomly roaming around

Now the part some of you probably guessed is coming! New the spell suggestions so here we go!

The Fulminating Flame Cage
if you are a Warhammer veteran, please I dare you to tell me you didn't see this suggestion coming, the true crowd control spell of the lore of fire, an amazing and strange spell, now this spell will function in 2 parts, part 1 is the Brigh tmage summons a ring of fire around the selected target unit or squad, this will be a short but possibly impactful time, 10 seconds at most before disappearing

now part 2 of the spell, should the unit attempt to perform any action or cast any ability the flame ring will pulsate and explode doing massive damage to the unit, now you might be saying this is op, but do keep in mind that you can simply dodge your unit becoming cinders and ash by reacting quickly and stopping it, its a lockdown spell first and foremost, not a damage spell! Its the enemies choice if there unit dies or not....

Dragons Breath
I feel like it brings the lore of fire to life by bringing us a little closer to those menacing dragons(or not so menacing in total Warhammer)! So its pretty much just a basic cone spell like wind blast, but for fire and mostly focuses on giving the bright wizard an escape from close combat by blowing all the enemies away from him, we all know how much of a nightmare it can be to get our precious Mages buried in piles of enemies....

Raging Flame Smoke Bomb
this might sound a little strange, and this is all about creativity and using the uniqueness that total war being a real time strategy gives us to expand and make this an amazing game game as we possible can! So here is what it does, the fire Mage summons a small fire orb that explodes and creates a large cloud of smoke(a smoke bomb if you will) for 10-15 seconds, anything inside the smoke or behind the smoke becomes invisible to the enemy! Giving utility to the burning hot pride of the bright Mages is something we can do to! Intelligence can sometimes be better then brute force...

OK so now we are done with the Lore of Fire the next Lore.....

The Lore of Metal and alchemy!
as it is called is heavily focused on the manipulation of metals of all types and also on alchemy, the mixing of potions and turning elements into other ones, most notably transmuting things into gold! Its a highly offensive lore that specialises in killing heavily armoured and elite units

Metal Shifting – Passive
interesting.... the passive is currently ok I suppose... an extra addition should be that all lore of metal damage spells count and flaming attacks and one more that might be a little idea... but any unit youve hit with one of your spells during the match takes debuffs when in the metal Mages sphere of influence the metal Mage, debuffs to movement speed armour and weapon strength to represent that even though the spell might of ended the presence of his magic is still there altering the property's of there armour...

Searing Doom
the signature spell of metal! Shooting tiny slithers of silver out of your hand at the enemy! Or not...? this is a bombardment spell!? Why dear god why!? Please turn this into a magic Missile that fires 4-5 projectiles that penetrate targets and do damage that scales upwards with the enemies armour value!!!! this makes it good for small elite units or great for single targets

Plague of Rust
same as most buffs, but this should be permanent and make it stackable but increase miscast chance if used on the same target

Glittering Robe
its fine as a buff, but how is its power right now? Its useful sure.... but it could be better... how about we make it scaling like it does in the table top? The more armour the unit being buffed has, the more armour it gets from this spell

Gehennas Golden Hounds
This spell admittedly has one of the coolest animations in the game, and because of this I honestly don't mind that it does something completely different to what it does in table top, but here's my suggestion for changing it! Ok, so this might sound a little odd but bear with me please! Ok, so you summon the hounds to target a specific person, these hounds will now run around as a vortex for a little bit, and once the timer comes due they will start running towards the target and do extra damage to that target based on the amount of untis hit during that time(next to nothing if they miss everyone, massive amounts if they pass through hordes) it might sound strange, but this could be very unique!

Transmutation of Lead
what it does in tabletop is mediocre In my opinion, but I think we can fix that quite easily, make the debuff permanent, once you transmute something.... it doesn't transmute itself back unless you do it yourself..

Final Transmutation
This spell is the straight up epitome of what it means to be able to Use metal magic.... and its seriously underwhelming, this spell should be a nuke, in table top its pretty much the only spell in this lore that's effective against all targets equally well and I think we should keep it like that! Now as its the epitome of of metal magic it should be heavily impactful, not some minor death overtime spell, it should straight up just do its damage all at once, I feel like 1 in every 4 units hit by this spell should just turn into a gold statue and be declared dead, on top of this it should cause massive terror as people watch there friends, there allies turn into statues before there eyes!
A fun joke passive could be that when used on dwarves they panic for a second and do anything as they consider taking the gold statue and running!

New spells! And a new passive!

The Grand Alchemist – passive
a new passive given to all Metal Mages because after all, its alchemy as well, so here's what it does, if you have a metal Mage, you get all potions for free the lord or Mages army, if you already had a potion that potion now counts as 2 doses, if you don't have a potion of a certain type you get 1 dose of that potion for free, it might sound op but these are the creators and studiers of alchemy we are talking about, if they don't have access to these then body should.....

Metallurgic Immolation
we are talking about the controllers of metal... the men who can boil people alive in there own armour.. so here we have a new spell, it turns the enemies armour white hot and roasts them alive inside it, the more armour, the more damage

Metal Sand
I am sure some of you know where I got this idea from.... Metal sand creates a vortex spell that randomly floats around like al vortex spells do, it looks somewhat like a sparse black cloud, whenever the cloud passes over a unit that unit becomes temporarily takes light damage, becomes unable to move and suffers terror from due to choking on the fine metal particles

Ok so now we are done with the Lore of Metal on the next Lore... in the next post apparently..... i hit the word character cap!
Post edited by Squallsy on

Comments

  • SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176
    edited December 2016
    Ok sorry about that, back onwards we go! wasnt expecting to hit a character cap lol......

    The Lore of Light
    this is based on the manipulation of light, think of them like a paladin or a holy priest, they are your go to for killing all the bad things that crawl under your bed at night, this is mostly a defensive lore but it has some specialist spells for dealing with the evil warp spawned abominations!

    Exorcism – Passive
    this straight up sucks as it is now, what it does in table top is more hits against demons, but I think we can go a bit of a step up from that niche this spell type up a bit! This should be bonus damage, 50% damage from melee and spells against all undead and warp spawns(all vampire counts, all tomb kings, all demons of chaos and some variations of beastmen and WoC) it is a specialist at killing them after all... this should be the go to spell if you want to kill something unnatural...

    Pha's Protection
    since this is a heavily defensive and buffing lore of magic, I am perfectly fine with this being the first of a few buffing spells! Could do with a little balancing though, unsure of that though, somebody more mathematically inclined then me!

    Shem's Burning Gaze
    bigger explosions plox! Really big ones
    Light of Battle
    A very useful and very niche spell, I have absolutely no problems with it, it does what it does in the table top, it does what it does in the lore, it does exactly what it does

    Net of Amyntok
    the straight up best done spell in the game imo, could do with a small amount of damage if the unit attempts to move(punishes impatient spam clicking please)

    Birona's Time Warp
    More speed, men to cavalry, cavalry to motor bikes, this is the ending tier spell, it should reflect its power house abilitys, it should also increase attack speed as well!

    Banishment
    now honestly, this spell is incredibly lame in table top, I can understand why they changed it... I don't think they made a great change but anything is better then the magic Missile! Needs more damage though especially against undead and warp spawns!

    Now for some suggestions!

    Shining Beacon of Light – passive
    the light Mage is a shining beacon of hope for his allies but he is a blinding sun to the enemies it should cause leadership bonuses to all allies and reduced melee attack to all enemies within the light Mages command aura

    Speed of Light
    now yes, this does exist in table top, and it does buff weapon skill, however in this game it bironas time warp already does that! So lets go a little off the beaten path.... the light Mage turns into a ball of light and moves location at the speed of light, a medium range teleport spell if you will around 200m

    Now we are done with the Lore of Light time to go to the next Lore

    The Lore of Death
    This is the lore about mastery over death, controlling and guiding spirits, not to be confused with the dark art necromancy, this is a socially accepted and highly accepted type of magic within the empire, its main focus is on assassinating single targets, it does however have one of the most iconic spells in all of Warhammer with the Purple Sun of Xereus

    Life Leeching – Passive
    the passive is good, I think you should however also get more power from killing units as that's what it does to some extent in table top!

    Aspect of tThe Dreadknight
    Does what it says it does, it might be a bit better of the terror caused was a little more.. terrifying?

    Spirit leech
    currently a sniper rifle, probably one of the most useful spells in the game, I think its at a moderately good power level, it could stand to do a tiny bit more damage if the rest of the spells are buffed to actually be relevant...

    Soulblight
    if it reduced physical resistance as this is what it does in table top, then itd be all aces

    Doom and darkness
    needs a bigger leadership debuff but other then that its all good

    The Purple Sun of Xereus
    I'm sorry CA you failed hard on this one..., that's all I can say, this thing is meant to make people cry, It even has its own nickname... the purple sun of prepare your anus, that's how terrifying it is, this is most definitely not meant them meant to be enjoying a bit of skydiving only to be perfectly fine.... this needs to become a monstrosity...... even if its just as likely to wipe you out as the enemy, even if you can only use it once or twice in a 40 minute fight... this thing should be a literally game changer, absolutely decimating anything short of a legendary lord left and right

    Fate of Bjuna
    fine with what the spell does, however it should do more damage, much more

    New spells, yea sorry I could only really think of a single 2 part passive...

    Looming Fate – Passive
    the less hp the Mage of death has the more damage he does in close combat

    Reclamation of Death - Passive
    when the death Mage is killed he is reanimated in an ethereal form, the physical manifestation of death magic, for the next 30 seconds or minute(unsure how long it should be) he gains ethereal, terror and has unlimited magic power, after this time is up he dies

    Since we have just finished with the Lore of Death is done time to move onto....

    Lore of Heavens
    A fairly ambiguous lore, it uses the power of the stars, however it can control all types of weather, lightning, snow, wind can also be used to divine the future, it can influence peoples dreams, this is a very jack of all trades but master of none lore, if you aren't sure what you will be needing, this is your go to lore, it will have something you need!

    Rolling Skies – passive
    now currently this is doing what it should, however when a heaven Mage is in the army that army shuld be able to choose what kind of weather the battle will have!(this is based on the lores divination and future reading property's)

    Harmonic Convergence
    I don't think this really represents how amazing can be in the right situation on table top... I don't really know how to change it sorry!

    Wind Blast
    another very interesting spell I must say, I think it should be on a lower cooldown to truly show what kind of headache a control magic can cause

    Urannon's Thunderbolt
    in table top this hits more then once, it should do so in this game as well, rather then one massive lightning strike that does next to no damage, how about 3-4 lightning strikes that you know, actually hurt,,, cause lightning kills

    Curse of The Midnight Wind
    pretty much fine how it is

    Comet of Casandora
    supremely underwhelming, if somebody is hit by this incredibly easy to dodge ability they should disappear, anything in its blast radius should be vaporised if mid tier or lower! And what of super elites? The ones directly on it should take massive damage almost completely gimping them... a meteorite just fell out of space on them after all....

    Chain Lightning
    why is chain lightning a vortex? This should be a type of magic Missile that bounces, it hits the first unit does damage, if another unit is within 20m(40mboosted) the arc jumps and damage them as well! This could heavily **** an enemy force if they are to close together(can only bounce to each unit once).... it feels so wrong having it as a vortex

    new spells!

    Electricity Conductor – Passive
    when a lightning spell hits water it damages everything that's currently in the water, allies included

    Ice Shard Blizzard
    an actual spell! Woot, I think this should be a vortex that when it rolls over somebody it freezes them in place for 8 seconds! Crowd control for the win

    Divination – 2 part Passive
    part 1 - when a lore of heavens user is in your army you have increased ambush defence chance
    part 2 – when optioning to gamble for a magic has a chance to show how much magic will be gained or lost from the gamble

    Now that we are done with the Lore of Heavens onto the next Lore....

    The Lore of Shadows
    pPretty much my favourite and possibly the most potentially creative lore! It focuses around fog, mist, shadows, mind games and manipulation! Its a heavily offensive lore of magic that focuses on mostly buffs and debuffs but also has some decent damage spells as well!

    Smoke and Mirrors – Passive
    I believe this passive would be better if the grey wizard and any unit round him is hidden until the first time they move or take an action in battle or an enemy reaches 50m of the unit

    Mekloth's Mystifying Miasma
    I think this spell is overly fine, could do with a tiny bit more damage but that's not as important as the debuff the changes! the boosted version should debuff melee attack and melee defence as well!

    The Enfeebling Foe
    other then I think it should focus on weapon strength and melee attack like its table top counterpart and not affect melee defence, I think its a good hex overall!

    The Penumbral Pendulum
    this spell is actually kills units, I was surprised tbh, but it could still do more! it might be better if its a little wider as well!(looks awesome as heck to..)

    The Withering
    this should affect melee defence as well!

    Pit of Shades
    Its cool, I really like it(looks like a bunch of people in a bouncing castle), but it actually needs to do damage.. possibly doing more damage based on leadership, lower leadership = more damage, boosting should also make the spell bigger

    Okkam's Mindrazor
    it might not be buffing to the absurd levels that it does in tabletop.... but the buffs you have here are much more balanced and still really good

    I will not be going into the Branchwraith shadow spells at this as I am not familiar with them I may edit them in later when I feel like I have a more comfortable understanding of how they are used

    New spells!

    Steed of Shadows
    another table top spell, in tabletop it gives a unit a fly move and I think that's a cool idea, casting this on a unit should give it the ability to fly temporarily, 15-30 seconds, allowing the unit to reposition, possibly to get a Mage out of the way or into a great firing position for his magic missiles!

    Misguiding Mists
    Teleport spell of sorts, after a brief cast time switches place with a unit of choice within 100M(can not be used in close combat)

    Mysterious Fog
    The shadow Mage summons a large patch of fog for that obstructs vision of all things in or behind it, lasts 5 minutes


    Now that the Lore of Shadow is done with onto a bright one!

    The Lore of Life
    A lore that focuses on the control and manipulation of living things, trees, plants, even repairing flesh! This is a balanced lore with buffs, damage spells and healing, amazing healing, in table top this is a very top tier lore!

    Lifebloom
    actually quite good, especially for a passive, does what it does in tabel top to!

    Awakening of The Forest
    2 changes I suppose, it doesn't need to do massive damage, it should have a bigger and longer slow though! However like tabletop it needs to do significantly more damage in the woods!

    Earthblood
    am absurdly glad they ignored the rules on this one and let us cast it on others much love CA <3

    Flesh to Stone
    really good as it is....

    Shield of Thorns
    I get that its doing what it does in the table top but I honestly think as this is a wasted oppurtunity, this is a chance for CA to show creativity we should make it so the shield of thorns Is actually a shield of thorns, every time an enemy attacks you in close combat while this spell is active they feel the pain as there flesh is wrought asunder from the sharp thorns that are coming off you....

    Regrwoth
    Resurrection plox( assume it cant be done but a man can dream....)

    The Dwellers Below
    such a crazy ass life spell, don't even know where gw pulled this idea out of but CA implemented it interestingly to, only things I can say is more damage and have that damage scale based on weapon strength, lower weapon strength = more chance to die

    New lore of life spells, limited new additions here cause I'm derpy, maybe CA can think up something crazy and surprise us all!

    Throne of Vines – passive
    Makes miscasts impossible, buffs all lore of life spells, you might be wondering how this will work? Well, before a battle starts you roll a dice, there's a 25% chance you get this passive, if you do you do, If you don't you don't

    Now that I'm done with lore of life, on to the final lore I am touching on for the moment, might edit the others in later, we will see!

    The Lore of Beasts
    This is a very primal lore of magic, it focuses on brining out the beast in all of us, imagine a druid, very at one with all the creatures of the forest! This is a spell set mainly focused on buffs and turning those hefty characters into devastating monsters, it also has some incredibly unique spells with transformations!(oh if only CA could...)

    Wild Heart – Passive
    this is a decent passive, however it should have an additional buff that you cant miscast against bestial units or monsters(cavalry, beastmen, dragons, great eagles and the such like)

    Wyssan's Wildform
    aside from the numbers being low its actually picking the right things to buff, just like the tbaletop spell! no complaints

    Flock of Doom
    this was a magic Missile in tabletop, I'm actually happy it was changed to direct damage, but I think against low armour units it should be doing a lot of damage, goblins, pretty much the opposite of the lore of metal... wood elves, zombies, beware, you should be erased!

    Pann's Impenetrable Pelt
    there's a damage resistance mechanic used in magic! Omg that's amazeballs, this spell is honestly fine

    The Amber Spear
    in table top this is a Vallista, boosted its a Cannon, these things one hit characters, monsters, steam tanks, I feel like that's a little to much in this game, but it should pretty much get the job half done instead!

    The Curse of Anraheir
    probably the best curse so far I've seen, this must make wood elves cry!

    Transformation of Kadon
    this spell has gone from turning into something to summoning something, I assume they did it because its hard to transform a character, that's fair enough, if that isn't the case though... I'm gonna go hulk on there ass!

    New spells! Without going into transformations its hard to truly give him what he deserves... the ability to turn into a bad ass fire breathing dragon and wreak havoc....

    Beast Whisperer – passive
    all beast based units gain a 10% movement speed buff when within 100M of the beast Mage

    Savage Beast of Horrors
    buffs weapon strength and attack speed, sure it might seem a little redundant with Wyssan's Wildform existing... but they can stack and its an actual tabletop spell so bring it on!

    Mighty Bellow
    knocks all units away from the Beastmage so he can waltz off into the sunset happily, you know, since he cant transform and all...

    nOw after coming this far I do really want to touch on runes... but as I haven't gotten the dlc I cant really do that so I will edit in later along with the Little and Big Waaghs, the Lore of Vampires and the extra unique spells

    -So some words in closing, all of the changes I'm suggesting are based off either table top or the lore, some of the new spells are of my own creation to show some of the possible ideas CA could use when creating there own spells! But other then that all magic damage needs to be buffed it should truly be a fearsome thing, in table top its a game changer, in the lore its basically godmode, CA you need to put on your thinking cap and show us what that C in Creative Assembly really stands for! Every new spell will flesh out the lore and truly separate it as a unique game that takes advantage of every single mechanic you can! Remember that the sky is the limit!(unless you have the lore of the heavens hahaha!)

    If you have made it to reading this far, I think you must be as insane as I am for writing this entire thing but I thank you for your time and even if you don't agree, I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I did writing it! and will gladly accept any suggestions, critiques or opinions you can offer me! And if you have any questions feel free to ask! i will gladly answer anything! Thank you for your time!
    Post edited by Squallsy on
  • SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176
    and a reserve just in case for Q.A, edit logs, other peoples spell suggestions, and possibly tl;dr(dont get oyur hopes up....
  • SaphironSaphiron Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 827
    edited December 2016
    I think one of the surest ways to counter the downsides of overpowered magic (and magic SHOULD be powerful) is to make miscasts matter. As I understand it in the TT a miscast can hurt entire units... instead of a little life off the caster, why not make it do an AOE foot of mork like effect, damaging and knocking over nearbye units.

    Then overcharging spells becomes a riskier more strategic option.

    Now that said, you have some cool ideas, but the length is killer and it might prevent anybody from using any of them. Your explanation of how you're going to explain is longer than most initial thread posts... Trim it down if you can, even a bit would only help.... and i say that as a dude with a minor in classical literature, so if i think it's long and needs to be more concise, it's the understatement of the decade.
  • HorseWithNoNameHorseWithNoName Registered Users Posts: 1,001
    Imo a dispel mechanic should have global range. You can and would have matchups with one side having their caster on flying horse and the other on foot. The caster on foot would if played correctly by the other player never be able to dispel any spell coming from the other caster. You can make dispelling a spell cost more depending on distance though.
    Also, I don't think magic can be balanced around miscast. Again, put your caster on a flying horse and not worry about the aoe effect.
  • SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176
    Saphiron said:

    I think one of the surest ways to counter the downsides of overpowered magic (and magic SHOULD be powerful) is to make miscasts matter. As I understand it in the TT a miscast can hurt entire units... instead of a little life off the caster, why not make it do an AOE foot of mork like effect, damaging and knocking over nearbye units.

    Then overcharging spells becomes a riskier more strategic option.

    Now that said, you have some cool ideas, but the length is killer and it might prevent anybody from using any of them. Your explanation of how you're going to explain is longer than most initial thread posts... Trim it down if you can, even a bit would only help.... and i say that as a dude with a minor in classical literature, so if i think it's long and needs to be more concise, it's the understatement of the decade.

    yea, i was thinking of how to trim it down still lol, the length is absolutely absurd >_>

    now don't get me wrong i don't dislike the idea of miscasting as a counter measure, and sure, if you have the dangerous miscasts with the dispel mechanic and new super buffed spells it gives you viability to not take a mage to avoid some of that rng danger, which is why it happens in tabletop(albeit rarely) however, the reason why I didn't suggest this is simply because people tend to hate upon rng, especially when rng is 'hey look my mage just became a suicide bomber!' while this might sound fun as all heck to you or me, it could lead to extreme frustration for many other people which is why i did not touch upon it

    Imo a dispel mechanic should have global range. You can and would have matchups with one side having their caster on flying horse and the other on foot. The caster on foot would if played correctly by the other player never be able to dispel any spell coming from the other caster. You can make dispelling a spell cost more depending on distance though.
    Also, I don't think magic can be balanced around miscast. Again, put your caster on a flying horse and not worry about the aoe effect.

    i was unsure of the range i should add for dispels, I did at first consider global but after musing over it for a bit I thought that having global dispel range might make mounts completely pointless! I also thought that it could have some interesting counter play mechanics to the dispel so its not just 'well if i use this spell I know I am 100% going to get dispelled so i just wont' it adds the requirement to weigh how important a mount is, weather it be because you want to avoid the enemy caster or to shut theirs down or to simply protect your mage
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 1,607
    1. I like the idea of choosing one signature spell
    Makes for better wizard customization

    2. Your proposals show a main problem with Magic in Total War Warhammer.
    It´s mostly Buff/Wind/Vortex/Projectile with different animations

    You should also have Teleport/Hide/build obstacles/create phantom troops/ let troops pass through walls...
    But the CA´s AI department would propably lynch you for this suggestion.

    3. Steed of Shadows should be realized as a mount.
    The Grey Wizard looks ridiculous on that Pegasus.
    And can that Amber Wizard please get a Manticore or Griffon?
  • SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176

    1. I like the idea of choosing one signature spell
    Makes for better wizard customization

    2. Your proposals show a main problem with Magic in Total War Warhammer.
    It´s mostly Buff/Wind/Vortex/Projectile with different animations

    You should also have Teleport/Hide/build obstacles/create phantom troops/ let troops pass through walls...
    But the CA´s AI department would propably lynch you for this suggestion.

    3. Steed of Shadows should be realized as a mount.
    The Grey Wizard looks ridiculous on that Pegasus.
    And can that Amber Wizard please get a Manticore or Griffon?

    1) each lore has a signature spell, for the Fire wizard its fireball, for the Shadow mage its Miama, im not against having to select a signature spell the second you get your mage though!

    2) that they are, thats because in table top theres 3 key types of spells, blast markers, direct damage spells and buffs/debuffs, this is mainly due to not really being able to curb visibility in table top without it simply being treated as night fighting.....

    i did add a few suggestions for teleportation for heaven and shadow lores! i added a few hide spells to, creating phantom troupes and letting troops pass through terrain could however be quite interesting!

    3) though i think the spell should stay, i certainly agree and like the idea to give wizards more realistic mounts.... steed of shadows for shadow, a metal disk for metal, (possibly) angels wings for light? levetation or a spectral steed for heavens(god i love customization!)

    and for the amber wizard, since im assumign ca cnat utilzie transformatiosn i think it might be a strange interesting and unique idea if we take inspiration from World of Warcraft druids, instead of giving the amber wizard mounts, how about we transform him more into an animal or make him look a little more beastial? bad ass Wolf/Lycan for ground and maybe... a gryphon/manticore for tier 1 flying, and tier 2 dragon/wyvern?
  • SaphironSaphiron Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 827
    Saphiron said:

    I think one of the surest ways to counter the downsides of overpowered magic (and magic SHOULD be powerful) is to make miscasts matter. As I understand it in the TT a miscast can hurt entire units... instead of a little life off the caster, why not make it do an AOE foot of mork like effect, damaging and knocking over nearbye units.

    Then overcharging spells becomes a riskier more strategic option.

    Now that said, you have some cool ideas, but the length is killer and it might prevent anybody from using any of them. Your explanation of how you're going to explain is longer than most initial thread posts... Trim it down if you can, even a bit would only help.

    I'm not saying JUST balance around a miscast. But when you miscast it should hurt and knock a bunch of units on their butts, and there could be a more substantial air explosion that does even more damage to the caster if he's flying, making it dangerous for fliers as well and making overcasting a tactical choice with huge rewards and penalties.

    It would be a smart addition, not the end all balance mechanic.
  • SquallsySquallsy Registered Users Posts: 176
    Saphiron said:

    Saphiron said:

    I think one of the surest ways to counter the downsides of overpowered magic (and magic SHOULD be powerful) is to make miscasts matter. As I understand it in the TT a miscast can hurt entire units... instead of a little life off the caster, why not make it do an AOE foot of mork like effect, damaging and knocking over nearbye units.

    Then overcharging spells becomes a riskier more strategic option.

    Now that said, you have some cool ideas, but the length is killer and it might prevent anybody from using any of them. Your explanation of how you're going to explain is longer than most initial thread posts... Trim it down if you can, even a bit would only help.

    I'm not saying JUST balance around a miscast. But when you miscast it should hurt and knock a bunch of units on their butts, and there could be a more substantial air explosion that does even more damage to the caster if he's flying, making it dangerous for fliers as well and making overcasting a tactical choice with huge rewards and penalties.

    It would be a smart addition, not the end all balance mechanic.
    i got what you meant D=, I am just not sure how to view it, miscasts do exist to some extent with overcasting as they do a bit of damage, more showy version of this are fine sure, the issue comes with CA has avoided adding a lot of rng mechanics, artillery doesn't blow up randomly when firing! much disappointment )=!, but I'm certainly not against changing miscasts if they can do it well =D!

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