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Gorthor possible legendary lord?

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  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,520
    SiWI said:


    Archaeon attacking the Old world, mostly the Empire is Warhammer basic storyline.
    And yes the game make some references to "the end times", but you apparently don't really know that the real end times would mean.

    Nitpick all you want about how End Times as basic storyline, Archaeon spawning as part of End Times is a particular point in the timeline of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, naturally you cannot argue that characters that long died by then should be in the game.

    If you want to argue so much for another Beastmen Lord go for Taurox, he at least gets reborn according to lore, whereas Gorthor's death has no such after-fluff. Taurox is also a Minotaur rather than the regular Goatmen that are the other current Lords.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • SiWI#8629SiWI#8629 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,014
    daelin4 said:

    SiWI said:


    Archaeon attacking the Old world, mostly the Empire is Warhammer basic storyline.
    And yes the game make some references to "the end times", but you apparently don't really know that the real end times would mean.

    Nitpick all you want about how End Times as basic storyline, Archaeon spawning as part of End Times is a particular point in the timeline of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, naturally you cannot argue that characters that long died by then should be in the game.
    Didn't you claim this was "derailing the thread" a post ago?

    Anyway, sharing 1 story point and pretty much no other, doesn't make anything anything.
    Your Sherlockhomes film isn't a cane and able story, because someone dies.

    And for long dead, that didn't matter in case for Vlad and will probably doesn't matter in other cases.
    Let's remember, why CA brought Vlad back:
    because he is fun.
    No "he is a vampire and hence magic brings him back", just "fun".



    If you want to argue so much for another Beastmen Lord go for Taurox, he at least gets reborn according to lore, whereas Gorthor's death has no such after-fluff. Taurox is also a Minotaur rather than the regular Goatmen that are the other current Lords.

    Sure, if the question is "chose one BM LL" Taurox wins this for a couple of reasons.
    But that doesn't make anyone else automatic not viable (thats because of "no DLC for DLC").

    And as for characters goes, he has an Armybook entrance, has some interesting gameplay features and fine enough lore that if CA would bring 2 more BM, he wouldn't be a bad pick for 2nd.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Vlad's undead and they explicitely have the power to be brought back, it's the entire gimmick of the faction.

    Gorthor was just a regular Beastman, so how'd that be justified?
  • SiWI#8629SiWI#8629 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,014

    Vlad's undead and they explicitely have the power to be brought back, it's the entire gimmick of the faction.

    Gorthor was just a regular Beastman, so how'd that be justified?

    Fun.







    Okay if you "really" need a explanation:
    Chaos Gods doing they thing.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Canuovea#6291Canuovea#6291 Registered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 15,959

    Vlad's undead and they explicitely have the power to be brought back, it's the entire gimmick of the faction.

    Gorthor was just a regular Beastman, so how'd that be justified?

    Handwaves.

    It could be justified. I don't think it should, but whatever.
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  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    SiWI said:

    Vlad's undead and they explicitely have the power to be brought back, it's the entire gimmick of the faction.

    Gorthor was just a regular Beastman, so how'd that be justified?

    Fun.







    Okay if you "really" need a explanation:
    Chaos Gods doing they thing.
    What fun? Khazrak has that whole vendetta with Boris-thing going, what "fun" does Gorthor bring to the table? That he failed long ago and was ignored by the Chaos Gods for thousands of years? They don't usually wait that long to revive champions they liked.
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,520
    edited January 2017
    SiWI said:


    Didn't you claim this was "derailing the thread" a post ago?

    It reinforces my point, which is Gorthor is dead by the time of Karl Franz, naturally a character that doesn't exist in the timeframe isn't compatible. If a character like Gothor really wasn't an issue then why would he of all beastmen characters didn't come with the DLC?

    Well because he's dead.
    SiWI said:



    Anyway, sharing 1 story point and pretty much no other, doesn't make anything anything.

    There are more points that state the campaign as a specific timeline of the Warhammer universe. The lack of Nagash doesn't somehow negate the presence of Archaon, Grimgor and Karl Franz. Get real.
    SiWI said:


    And for long dead, that didn't matter in case for Vlad and will probably doesn't matter in other cases.
    Let's remember, why CA brought Vlad back:
    because he is fun.
    No "he is a vampire and hence magic brings him back", just "fun".

    If you can directly quote a CA statement on that.

    In any event, Vlad is at least remotely plausible due to fluff. If GW retconns Gothor as another resurrected Beastmen then you have a point. But that wouldn't be your point because it's simply "its fun", as opposed to practical and plausible.
    Otherwise you would have to also accommodate even more remote figures like Grimnir and Sigmar. I'm sure being able to play as an actual Dwarf god would be fun.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • SiWI#8629SiWI#8629 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,014
    daelin4 said:

    SiWI said:


    Didn't you claim this was "derailing the thread" a post ago?

    It reinforces my point, which is Gorthor is dead by the time of Karl Franz, naturally a character that doesn't exist in the timeframe isn't compatible. If a character like Gothor really wasn't an issue then why would he of all beastmen characters didn't come with the DLC?


    Well because he's dead.
    Ah if its reinforcing your point, at least you think it does, then it is okay and not detrailing the thread?

    Because CA has decided to do the others first (or him never)?
    For that there can be many reason, a more obvious rivalry, more promising gameplay features, limed resources.
    But if this is suppose to be an argument against him, you can say the same about Taurox.


    SiWI said:



    Anyway, sharing 1 story point and pretty much no other, doesn't make anything anything.

    There are more points that state the campaign as a specific timeline of the Warhammer universe. The lack of Nagash doesn't somehow negate the presence of Archaon, Grimgor and Karl Franz. Get real.

    MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

    wait you are serious, allow me to laugh at you even harder:
    MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Because Karl Franz, which is in most Warhammer stories alive, is there it is "End times"?
    Lol.

    Seriously, do you even really know what the "End times" actually is?
    Because base on your statements, you think every Warhammer ever is "the end times".
    SiWI said:


    And for long dead, tha t didn't matter in case for Vlad and will probably doesn't matter in other cases.
    Let's remember, why CA brought Vlad back:
    because he is fun.
    No "he is a vampire and hence magic brings him back", just "fun".

    If you can directly quote a CA statement on that.

    Search through they facebook.
    In any event, Vlad is at least remotely plausible due to fluff.

    not really.
    He was proper dead, burried and his ring was far away.
    The only one pulling it off is missing in TW and the quality of that decision can be argued.
    People can close they eyes on that as much they want, but storywise Vlad isn't really justfiled, if CA would take the "timeline" seriously, which they aren't. They eliminated time for they game even.

    Which btw did GW as well:
    you could play with everyone, even the long dead and those who never meat each other against each other.
    You could play Gorthor agianst Karl Franz anytime in the TT.
    So why would it be a crime to be able to do the same in TW?

    If GW retconns Gothor as another resurrected Beastmen then you have a point. But that wouldn't be your point because it's simply "its fun", as opposed to practical and plausible.

    Bring the stuff of the armybooks to live, the whole mission of this trilogy, IS practical and plausible.
    Otherwise you would have to also accommodate even more remote figures like Grimnir and Sigmar. I'm sure being able to play as an actual Dwarf god would be fun.

    White Dwarf.

    And while I don't think we get Sigma himself, I wouldn't put Valten past CA list of coming Empire LL's.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Arcani_4_Ever#4489Arcani_4_Ever#4489 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,813
    I would love Gorthor. The only problem is that he is too generic.

    He is just a buffed Beastlord, with no special skills, no special rivalries.

    Khazrak is more interesting than him.

    The only thing that would make Gorthor interesting is having him as the Faction Leader of the Warherd of Chaos.

    Technically speaking he is the Everchosen of the Beastmen, so him leading the Warherd of Chaos seems appropiate.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,698
    Stop the bickering and stay on topic.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,520
    edited January 2017
    SiWI said:


    Bring the stuff of the armybooks to live, the whole mission of this trilogy, IS practical and plausible.

    According to their army book Gorthor is just that beastmen that did the most damage and the first. There really isn't anything peculiar about him that would make him something other than another Khazrak. If anything Gorthor should have been the faction leader for that DLC...if CA wanted to ignore that fact that he was dead.
    And if I have to guess, they didn't because of that reason.

    But if you go for something different like a Doombull/ Minotaur lord, you can make a unique variant of Lord (or unit) that is practical and relevant, in this case a powerhouse character that doesn't have spells but is just all about combat prowess. More importantly this ignores the debate about timelines; Taurox isn't dead according to lore books.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • Arthas_Menethil#3421Arthas_Menethil#3421 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,351
    edited January 2017
    The issue with bringing Gorthor back is he was killed he has as far is I know no item like Vlad able to bring him back from the dead and if we start hand waving characters back from the dead how long before it gets rather silly with people asking for Magnus the Pious and others. And that's even if Games Workshop lets CA add him.
    Post edited by Arthas_Menethil#3421 on
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,068
    edited January 2017
    I prefer Taurox. He can also bring Ghorgon and Doombull with him just like Skarsnik brought his Squig units...
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,157
    jamreal18 said:

    I prefer Taurox. He can also bring Ghorgon and Doombull with him just like Skarsnik brought his Squig units...

    Doombull with Taurox would be logical, and Ghorgon seems like a logical counterpart from what I've heard of it (newer edition than me). Though that would be chunky for a FLC.
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119
    Arsenic said:

    You've more chance of Warhoof, or the Moonbeast, but see no reason not to include this chap if he's popular, if we're going to have Vlad back via handwave.
    "And lo, the Chaos Gods said "LOL" and brought Gorthor back to plague mankind" or something.

    Judging from a quick Google though, a modder could probably do him for you quite easily.

    Moonbeast would be awsome. Warhoof too? Anyway the game does not play in the end times as far as I am conserned. I think gorthor reborn would be just for fancervice.
    Petromir said:

    jamreal18 said:

    I prefer Taurox. He can also bring Ghorgon and Doombull with him just like Skarsnik brought his Squig units...

    Doombull with Taurox would be logical, and Ghorgon seems like a logical counterpart from what I've heard of it (newer edition than me). Though that would be chunky for a FLC.
    Maybe with the morrslieb prince a jabberslythe could appear? How high are the chances of a ghorgon appearing?

    With taurox they could make a seperate beastmen faction to allow multiplayer (something like the brassbull herd?) Another question, why didn`t they use morghurs faction in the grand campaign so beastmen players could play multiplayer???
  • Arcani_4_Ever#4489Arcani_4_Ever#4489 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,813
    Just make Gorthor the LL of the Warherd of Chaos.

    Would suit him.

  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119

    Just make Gorthor the LL of the Warherd of Chaos.

    Would suit him.

    Multiple characters got ressurected so for me that would be totally fine. Altough moonclaw would be a much better fit I suppose(litteraly the son of morrslieb, moon of chaos)
  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,329
    Is it too late to shill on behalf of Ungrol Four-Horn?

    A Gave born with two heads who murdered his tribe's Wargor and Shaman ( a grave sin under Beastmen ) and stole their horns.


  • MontresorMontresor Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 322
    edited January 2017
    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119
    Montresor said:

    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.

    He would be a really cool lord. I suppose he would function as a main enemy of the southern empire? Moonclaw still seems like the best choice to me though. What are the chances for another beastmen lord flc??
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119

    Is it too late to shill on behalf of Ungrol Four-Horn?

    A Gave born with two heads who murdered his tribe's Wargor and Shaman ( a grave sin under Beastmen ) and stole their horns.


    In my mind he would be rather suited to lead a chaos hord scince high tier gors dont respect him right? Maybe he could have a higher upkeep for bestigors and minotaures.
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119
    Montresor said:

    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.

    Btw. is there a chaos magic lore in the franchise? Does slugtounge have his own unique lore of magic? He would probably be a scorcerer so he would have to be really powerfull.
  • MontresorMontresor Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 322
    Hircane said:



    Btw. is there a chaos magic lore in the franchise? Does slugtounge have his own unique lore of magic? He would probably be a scorcerer so he would have to be really powerfull.

    In the tabletop he was only a level 2 Lore of the Wild and Lore of Shadows user. But he had an interesting ability called Curse of the Famine Fiend which made all enemies within a very wide range (but only after deployment) roll on a table that had a 50/50 chance of taking casualties from starvation etc. That would be easy enough to turn into a special ability in the game, either active damage or passive debuffs. It was more the character background which made me like this one so much. That, and the fact he looks like a cross between a Bray Shaman and Judge Mortis.

    Though I don't actually expect we'll get more Beastmen LLs.
  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,329
    Hircane said:

    Montresor said:

    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.

    Btw. is there a chaos magic lore in the franchise? Does slugtounge have his own unique lore of magic? He would probably be a scorcerer so he would have to be really powerfull.
    Lore of Tzeentch, Lore of Slaanesh, Lore of Nurgle.
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119

    Hircane said:

    Montresor said:

    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.

    Btw. is there a chaos magic lore in the franchise? Does slugtounge have his own unique lore of magic? He would probably be a scorcerer so he would have to be really powerfull.
    Lore of Tzeentch, Lore of Slaanesh, Lore of Nurgle.
    Does khorne have a magic lore?
  • #889117#889117 Registered Users Posts: 604
    edited February 2017
    I wouldn't mind seeing Ghorros Warhoof as a beastmen LL.

    They could easily re-skin a Centigor with great weapon and make the model a little bigger with a 2-handed club.

    He would be a very quick and mobile lord without the need for a mount!

    He would essentially be the beastmen's miniature/quicker version of kholek... which sounds awesome!

    A Centigor Legendary lord would definitely be a breath of fresh air from the everyday, average goat men!

    He could also come with the renown unit of "Sons of Ghorros" which could be a buffed up version of centigors...possibly with a higher unit count and the ability to.......wait for it!............ HIDE IN THE BLOODY WOODS!!!!!!!

    Another possible beastmen renown unit could be... "Khazrak's Warhounds" which could be a higher unit count, strider trait, buffed version of beastmen war hounds

    Ghorros Warhoof could have campaign bonuses such as...

    * Significant cost/upkeep reduction for centigors units

    * Increased campaign movement range

    * All units have the centigor Rowdy trait within his war band... since hes pretty much partying all the time

    note: However, he can't ambush or beast path away as well as the other lords, due to his drunken/reckless ways
    and for the odd fact that Centigors can't hide in woods for some strange reason. :p

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ghorros_Warhoof










    p.s. this is an older copy/pasted post of mine
    Post edited by #889117 on
    Bohemond Beastslayer for Warhammer 3

  • SiWI#8629SiWI#8629 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,014
    Hircane said:

    Hircane said:

    Montresor said:

    Personally, I think the best Beastman character is Molokh Slugtongue, the Famine Fiend.



    In terms of offering something very different to the current in game LLs, though, I think Ghorros Warhoof or Taurox the Brass Bull would be the better picks.

    Btw. is there a chaos magic lore in the franchise? Does slugtounge have his own unique lore of magic? He would probably be a scorcerer so he would have to be really powerfull.
    Lore of Tzeentch, Lore of Slaanesh, Lore of Nurgle.
    Does khorne have a magic lore?
    Nope. He isn't in favour of it, thou Dawn of War never got that memo.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119

    I wouldn't mind seeing Ghorros Warhoof as a beastmen LL.

    They could easily re-skin a Centigor with great weapon and make the model a little bigger with a 2-handed club.

    He would be a very quick and mobile lord without the need for a mount!

    He would essentially be the beastmen's miniature/quicker version of kholek... which sounds awesome!

    A Centigor Legendary lord would definitely be a breath of fresh air from the everyday, average goat men!

    He could also come with the renown unit of "Sons of Ghorros" which could be a buffed up version of centigors...possibly with a higher unit count and the ability to.......wait for it!............ HIDE IN THE BLOODY WOODS!!!!!!!

    Another possible beastmen renown unit could be... "Khazrak's Warhounds" which could be a higher unit count, buffed version of beastmen war hounds

    Ghorros Warhoof could have campaign bonuses such as...

    * Significant cost/upkeep reduction for centigors units

    * Increased campaign movement range

    * All units have the centigor Rowdy trait within his war band... since hes pretty much partying all the time

    note: However, he can't ambush or beast path away as well as the other lords, due to his drunken/reckless ways
    and for the odd fact that Centigors can't hide in woods for some strange reason. :p

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ghorros_Warhoof










    p.s. this is an older copy/pasted post of mine
    Really good ideas there dude. He really would be a cool lord. They could make a new faction in the middle mountains called for example "ghorros warhoofs warherd". Also he could have a significant growth boost since he fathers like every beastmen of his Herd( he sticks his di** in everything he finds).
  • steam_164191850448yoMgfCpsteam_164191850448yoMgfCp Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,157
    @daelin4
    @SiWI
    here is a quote from CA
    Just to clarify - Total War: WARHAMMER is pre-End Times, it's not based on any one particular edition.
    sourcre
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/183199/from-joey-ca-warhammer-total-war-is-pre-end-times-and-no-particular-edition/p1

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • TherenTheren Registered Users Posts: 296
    "Even in times of peace the forests arc regarded by the people with great fear and superstition. And amongst Beastmen, his memory remains."

    So accourding the rules of Warhammer world, if the humans still fear from Gorthor, and Beastmen still worship to him, he is basically a chaos daemon. I mean this is what chaos do, if you think the devil will come and eat your soul, and if you believe it enough, the devil supposed to exist, come and eat your bloody soul.
    For when the imperials feer from him he can come back again and again, in the name of chaos. (Like, the green knight, sigmar angels, or any chaos daemons)

    So, may he has a chance, but I still love better the concept of Thaurox and Ghorros. Also I think we need beastmen tribes in the new world and in the dark lands. Its a good chance, would be sad to miss them.
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