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Lets talk Cathey, Araby, and Nippon

ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
edited November 2017 in General Discussion
In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present. Here's to hoping they are integrated, so lets discuss shall we?
Araby
I'm thinking their campaign start would be fairly neutral to all races except Bretonnia,Orcs, and especially Tomb Kings. Playing as Araby, or even the Araby AI would be interesting. Araby as a nation cares about art, science, and their one god, but most of all, their riches, and acquiring more riches. They would be able to ally with Skaven, and trade with literally anyone. Which naturally makes them "friends" with some eyebrow raising races. They are not your typical Order/Good faction. They can be enemies, or an ally easily depending on how early you explore to get a relationship with them.
I don't want to say to much here because I want to leave it to discussion.

I think their buildings would be similar to Empire's buildings except they would have more produce and trade tariff boosting buildings. They can make a lot of money early, but they can have lots of enemies early.

I would post their army make up here, but it would take up to much room, so if you know Araby's army, post it in response. Some of us know they have a very interesting army. Just like the rest of Warhammer. They would not be out classed in multiplayer for sure.

Just to get them in there without worrying about their full implementation yet, I would put them in the campaign like Bretonnia was placed on release. Just add the base or the core of the race and attach on to it at a later time, just like Bretonnia FLC.
Lore and Army --> http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Araby
Warhammer Fantasy Araby Tribute


Cathay
Cathay maintains hostile relations with the Forces of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms ,Lizardmen, and a watchful eye against Nippon. Of course they get attacks from Dark Elves, Skaven, and hobgoblin marauders, but who doesn't? In the Cathey campaign, just like an Empire campaign, I think the emphasis should be on endurance and perseverance of the nation. Surrounded by enemies that want to plunder one of the richest nations.

Their military is said to be exceptionally powerful, but are almost nonexistent outside of artwork and concepts. So CA and GW would have to work together. Or they would have to get permission to to flesh them out themselves. I would love to play as the Dragon Emperor. Especially when he's said to be able to turn into a dragon. No wonder it's called Kingdom of the Dragon or Empire of the Celestial Dragon.

Lore--> http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Cathay
Warhammer Fantasy Cathay Tribute

Nippon
Not much to say about Nippon. They are similar to Bretonnia in that they are a feudal kingdom. Just think real world feudal era Japan. I imagine their armies being similar to Shogun 2. Except they would be warhammerified.
I would like to hear what people think a Nippon army would be.
Araby has am excellent navy and I would imagine Nippon would as well.
Warhammer Fantasy Nippon Tribute


What do you think their campaign would be like?
Who are you most interested in?
Do you think they are DLC, or base game factions?


Post edited by ChaosDragonBorn on
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Comments

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Cathy and Nippon combine have at best, crumbs of official lore.
    None of the big 16 races really interacts with them and no do the LL/LL candidates.

    Araby is far more realistic and will hopefully get something beyond empire troops.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynPosts: 10,842Registered Users
    You want two nations that exist on the other side of the planet, with almost no contribution to the Lore of the world?

    That pretty much sums up my views on the matter, I suppose. Sorry, but I must say that I think time is better spent elsewhere. :)
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • Warlord reaperWarlord reaper Junior Member Posts: 673Registered Users
    Eh I would rather they flesh out all the actual races before going into more human ones.( like finishing all the units for the races
  • Warlord reaperWarlord reaper Junior Member Posts: 673Registered Users
    That or give us chaos dwarfs
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    SiWI said:

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Actually yes, because I wouldn't have typed this if they were not interacting in the warhammer world.

    You want two nations that exist on the other side of the planet, with almost no contribution to the Lore of the world?

    Naggaroth is very far away as well. And that's separated by ocean, so how much more is Cathey and Nippon available, as they are next to Orges and chaos dwarves?

    Again, I prefaced this by saying they are nonexistent in table top, but are very much in the world just like everyone else in warhammer lore. So what's this about contribution? I guess we can scrap chaos dwarves as well with that logic. But that's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen.

    I post posted links to lore and army as well.

    Guys come on, try to read the whole post? :smile:
    Post edited by ChaosDragonBorn on
  • NazredNazred Senior Member Posts: 916Registered Users

    First off I want to say nice post :)

    But I don't think Cathay or Nipon will be ever playable factions. Just too far away and there is just too little information about them (not that I don't want to see them)

    Araby at the other hand is more realistic to be put in the game. Most likely with the Tomb Kings DLC and I would love to play them. Especially with their genies and sorcerors and flying carpets. I think their trade focus would give the game a fresh new input. So yes I am all for it.

    Instead of Nipon and Cathay I would like to see more of Albion as well. Just like Araby there is more of a change of them implemented for they are much closer. I am interested in the druid culture of Albion and the giants that live their.
  • PhiloslothicalPhiloslothical Posts: 859Registered Users




    This is an Ogre Maneater.
    Praise the sun ! \[T]/
  • HondlisHondlis Junior Member Posts: 513Registered Users
    Yeah let them give us these factions.... in 2022 when there's nothing else to release.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users




    This is an Ogre Maneater.
    Ogre Maneater dressed as an Eastern warrior.

    Sorry forgot the caption. As a matter of fact I'll delete that stupid unit from my post.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users

    SiWI said:

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Actually yes, because I wouldn't have typed this if they were not interacting in the warhammer world.
    Yeah because especially YOU would never type some rather obscure niche fan stuff and sell it as top official GW stuff.

    Naggaroth is very far away as well. And that's separated by ocean, so how much more is Cathey and Nippon available?

    Naggaeoth, as well as Lustria, have actually lore and story and the races of the old world actually interact with them regular. How many times did the Empire/Dwarf/High Elves fought against nippon or cathy?
    How many of the LL's in the game had any contact to to those 2?
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,445Registered Users, Moderators
    If GW loses all current behaviour trends and allows CA to create Cathay, Nippon, Ind, and so on... we might get them. But I'm not sure most computers would be able to run the super huge grand campaign map they'd have to stick together to make it work.

    Even if they did, it is entirely separate theatre of war that would have to wait a long time before being added. Just plomping these factions somewhere on the already planned map would be... unappealing and a half measure, they'd have to make an entirely new game/expansion.

    I do hope for Araby though, because Araby are smack dab in the middle of it all.
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  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 8,934Registered Users
    Nippon? Would be copy and pasting the stuff from Shogun 2 :tongue:
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Yes! to Boris Todbringer as playable, subfaction leading Legendary Lord with Starting Position Middenheim instead for the Empire! NO to the lazy way of moving Gelt and Volkmar who both belong to Reikland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Yeah Araby are the most convenient and realistic to approach as a playable race in the game. But you know...
    SiWI said:

    SiWI said:

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Actually yes, because I wouldn't have typed this if they were not interacting in the warhammer world.
    Yeah because especially YOU would never type some rather obscure niche fan stuff and sell it as top official GW stuff.

    Naggaroth is very far away as well. And that's separated by ocean, so how much more is Cathey and Nippon available?

    Naggaeoth, as well as Lustria, have actually lore and story and the races of the old world actually interact with them regular. How many times did the Empire/Dwarf/High Elves fought against nippon or cathy?
    How many of the LL's in the game had any contact to to those 2?
    Nippon is out of luck as far as much interaction admittedly.

    Araby and Cathey have a lot of interaction with the world though.

    And no I wouldn't sell fan made stuff as GW stuff.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users

    Cathey have a lot of interaction with the world though.

    Sources. Scources please. Official, not some random fan stuff.

    The only things I EVER read where some emissary visiting the Empire.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,445Registered Users, Moderators
    Finubar visited Ind and got a sword there, apparently.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
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    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Posts: 2,323Registered Users
    I'd really like to see Araby to make an appearance in one of the future installments.



    I think they are close enough to the Old World and share enough history with major factions to deserve to be included - while also offering enough material ( even without access to Warmaster ) for CA to work with. Models, art works, magical items, characters, names, etc










    Now, with Nippon and Cathay I honestly don't quite see a point. There is so little to work with, CA would have to basically invent these factions themselves ( something GW will never give their approval on ) and they are just sooo far away from most note-worthy other Warhammer races that they propably would make much of an impact on any Old or New World campaign. I think its hard to justify the work required to implement them, considering the staggering ammount of more prominent races and nations in Warhammer. Personally I'd much rather see the appearance of Amazons, Fimir, Halflings, Tileans, Zombie Pirates and so one before CA were to direct resources to something like Nippon, Cathay and Ind.
  • deckermdeckerm Posts: 149Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    CATHAY appears in the Tamurkhan book, and according to dark elves 7th edition army book, dark elves launched several raids against cathay, and they have clashed with the skavens on several occasions, but the lack of an army book means CA will have to create new unique units for them, I just don't see that happening, its just too much work with very little potential to pay off.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 3,712Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Cathy and Nippon combine have at best, crumbs of official lore.
    None of the big 16 races really interacts with them and no do the LL/LL candidates.

    Araby is far more realistic and will hopefully get something beyond empire troops.
    Not true about Cathay, HE trade with them and DE raid them, and we know they have reached Lustria at least once. plus it wouldn't be much of a stretch to fill in relations with Skaven (Can't remember if Eshin learned from Cathay or Nippon), Dawi Zharr, greenskins and chaos, undead (nagashites if not vampires). Hell, i could fire out believable lore and timelines including all of these in like 10 minutes, im sure CA could do a decent enough job if GW gave them the green light.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 8,934Registered Users

    SiWI said:

    In TableTop these races are nonexistent, but in the Warhammer world they are very much present.

    Actually... no, besides Araby, none of the named are really "present" in the warhammer lore.
    Cathy and Nippon combine have at best, crumbs of official lore.
    None of the big 16 races really interacts with them and no do the LL/LL candidates.

    Araby is far more realistic and will hopefully get something beyond empire troops.
    Not true about Cathay, HE trade with them and DE raid them, and we know they have reached Lustria at least once. plus it wouldn't be much of a stretch to fill in relations with Skaven (Can't remember if Eshin learned from Cathay or Nippon), Dawi Zharr, greenskins and chaos, undead (nagashites if not vampires). Hell, i could fire out believable lore and timelines including all of these in like 10 minutes, im sure CA could do a decent enough job if GW gave them the green light.
    considering Clan Eshin are Skaven Ninjas... i htink it was Nippon^^
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Yes! to Boris Todbringer as playable, subfaction leading Legendary Lord with Starting Position Middenheim instead for the Empire! NO to the lazy way of moving Gelt and Volkmar who both belong to Reikland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • HoneyBunHoneyBun Senior Member Posts: 4,115Registered Users
    Worrying about this stuff is like worrying about Venezuela not being in Rome 2

    They are making an FPS. Who knew a company could have a mid-life crisis ...

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    @Mr_Finley7
    Name someone who doesn't get raided by the DE?
    I thought so.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    SiWI said:

    Cathey have a lot of interaction with the world though.

    Sources. Scources please. Official, not some random fan stuff.

    The only things I EVER read where some emissary visiting the Empire.
    Warhammer Armies: Battle Bestiary (2nd Edition)
    Warhammer: Armies (3rd Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (4th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves (4th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen (5th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dogs of War (5th Edition)
    Warhammer: Siege (5th Edition)
    Warhammer: Rulebook (6th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen (6th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)
    Warhammer: Rulebook (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: High Elves (7th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos (7th Edition)

    Warhammer: Rulebook (8th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (8th Edition)

    Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos.

    Warhammer RPG 2nd Ed.: Night's Dark Masters

    Warhammer RPG 2nd Ed.: Children of the Horned Rat


    Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts (8th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (6th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: The Empire (7th Empire)

    Warhammer Armies: The Empire (8th Empire)

    Otherwise I posted the link to easily accessible lore when I typed this.
    Lore--> http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Cathay
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 3,712Registered Users
    SiWI said:

    @Mr_Finley7
    Name someone who doesn't get raided by the DE?
    I thought so.

    You said none of the main races interact with Cathay, and now your admitting that Dark Elves do, as the perpetrator of violent raids. So your statement was incorrect yes?
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 8,934Registered Users

    HoneyBun said:

    Worrying about this stuff is like worrying about Venezuela not being in Rome 2

    A missed opportunity. :smile:
    gib Aboriginees for Medieval 3?
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Yes! to Boris Todbringer as playable, subfaction leading Legendary Lord with Starting Position Middenheim instead for the Empire! NO to the lazy way of moving Gelt and Volkmar who both belong to Reikland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users

    SiWI said:

    Cathey have a lot of interaction with the world though.

    Sources. Scources please. Official, not some random fan stuff.

    The only things I EVER read where some emissary visiting the Empire.
    Warhammer Armies: Battle Bestiary (2nd Edition)
    Warhammer: Armies (3rd Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (4th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves (4th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen (5th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dogs of War (5th Edition)
    Warhammer: Siege (5th Edition)
    Warhammer: Rulebook (6th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen (6th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (6th Edition)
    Warhammer: Rulebook (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: High Elves (7th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (7th Edition)
    Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos (7th Edition)

    Warhammer: Rulebook (8th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Ogre Kingdoms (8th Edition)

    Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos.

    Warhammer RPG 2nd Ed.: Night's Dark Masters

    Warhammer RPG 2nd Ed.: Children of the Horned Rat


    Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts (8th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: Skaven (6th Edition)

    Warhammer Armies: The Empire (7th Empire)

    Warhammer Armies: The Empire (8th Empire)

    Otherwise I post the link to easily accessible lore when I typed this.
    From the relevance of 2nd edition sources,( how desperate has one to be?) to the fact that all those "interactions" are foot notes at best.
    The only thing mention in the Empire books is that the emissary visit once.
    The fact that this counts as noteworthy for you, shows how desperate you need to search to find anything for them.
    The same for 8th edition rulebook.
    Maybe the Ogres and the WoC have something relevant to them, but I doubt that there is anything beyond: "orges/WoC fought Cathy troops there and there".
    That translates basically to really nothing for a TW.
    Military? Only thing ever mention is a great wall and terracotta warriors. I don't see "part of the great wall" being a great TW unit to be honest.
    Politics? Some statement that there is a Emperor (oh surprise) who maybe is a cleastia wizard or just uses the title since well China had that basically that title for its Emperors
    Culture? Something about ancestral.
    All of those things are vague at best and CA would have basically made them from scratch.
    If CA wanted to make they own races, they would not have paid GW to use the Warhammer licence.


    Compare this to let's say Kislev or Araby. They have actually army list in other GW games and are fairly relevant for all races in the old world.
    One being the first wall against Chaos, the other at least a target for both Bretonnia and Empire.
    Let alone the TK.


    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 8,934Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    SiWI said:


    Maybe the Ogres and the WoC have something relevant to them, but I doubt that there is anything beyond: "orges/WoC fought Cathy troops there and there".
    That translates basically to really nothing for a TW.

    actually i think for Ogres it's also trade with Cathay... they also sit along (or to them it runs?) the Warhammer Silk Road
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Yes! to Boris Todbringer as playable, subfaction leading Legendary Lord with Starting Position Middenheim instead for the Empire! NO to the lazy way of moving Gelt and Volkmar who both belong to Reikland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,450Registered Users

    SiWI said:

    @Mr_Finley7
    Name someone who doesn't get raided by the DE?
    I thought so.

    You said none of the main races interact with Cathay, and now your admitting that Dark Elves do, as the perpetrator of violent raids. So your statement was incorrect yes?
    Interacted means for me more then a footnote of them fighting somewhere.
    If you compare this to let's say DE and Dwarfs, who have important parts of they history connecting each other, then how does this rank to a "DE somewhere distant do what they always do"?

    But hey, if you think that there is "plenty" of cathy in warhammer official lore and CA should totally add them because they are SOOO important for the Warhammer world, feel free to waste your time.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
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