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Suggestions for improvements of Karl Franz

TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior MemberPosts: 4,112Registered Users
Hello folks,

due to some stuff in recent threads (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191271/the-gap-between-old-and-new-content-has-become-too-big/p3 and https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191274/bretonnia-campaign-info-from-pcgamer/p4) i had the idea to make this lil thread to gather some ideas how to improve one of the most bland Vanilla LLs... not as bad as Ungrim, Gelt or Kemmler... but imho still not really impressive, especially if compared to newer LLs... the emperor Karl Franz

He currently is nothing special (imho) and also 2 of his quest items (Reikland Runefang and Ghal Maraz) occupy the same equipment slot, which means he can only use 2 of his 3 Quest Items at the same time... and if i aint mistaken he is the only LL that can't equip all of his Quest Items at the same time

so i had following ideas:

1) Improve his equipment, Namely Ghal Maraz and add Karl Franz armour as Quest item, maybe Titled "Armour of the Emperor", here a small text from the WHFB Wiki (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Karl_Franz#Wargear):
Being the Emperor of a powerful and ancient empire, Karl Franz is bestowed by his title as Emperor with some of the most powerful magical weapons and armour in the entire Old World. The Emperor's armour was forged for him by the unparalleled talents of Dwarf smiths, and incorporates some of the actual armour worn by Magnus the Pious at the Battle of Kislev. It is made of black gromril and is richly gilded and adorned with runes and symbols of power.

The Emperor is armed with the Hammer of Sigmar, Ghal Maraz, the weapon given to Sigmar by Kurgan Ironbeard, the ancient Dwarf High King, in thanks for Sigmar's aid. Ghal Maraz, the Skullsplitter, is one of the most potent magical weapons ever crafted by the Dwarfs of old, in the days when their power was at its height. The Emperor also wears an enchanted amulet known as the Silver Seal around his neck. This seal wards against the most powerful attacks and blows his enemies can muster and even counter magic spells cast against the Emperor. It was made for Magnus the Pious by the Warrior Mage Fredrik von Tarnus, after the Great War against Chaos.

so what do we get out of this text:
Armour:
first: his armour should be black, not white/steel coloured^^
second: his armour is made out of Gromril and incorporates armour of Magnus the Pious
so unlocking it could give Karl Franz a nice buff in Armour and (for the campaign map) a reduction of Corruption... other ideas are gladly welcomed
Ghal Maraz:
It's one of the most powerful runic weapons in the Warhammer world it seems, i guess if you would look for more powerful runic weapons you might find them only in the Axes of Grimnir and maybe the Hammer that was in Karak Dum (can't remember it's name)... so it should be quite potent

also: maybe make it easier to reach the quest battle for Ghal Maraz, considering how easily the Dwarfs currently whipe out the Greenskins

again: ideas how to specifically improve Ghal Maraz is gladly welcomed

2) Improve his abilities... afterall he is the Emperor and Heir of Sigmar Heldenhammer, unique buffs that improve Greatswords and other units futher than they would be with normal Generals, with improved buffing for the Greatswords these could also become more useful during the campaign, since from what i've read they end up being surpassed by fully buffed Halberdiers later on

again: suggestions how to improve that specifically are welcomed

3) Strengthen Deathclaw, in lore terms Deathclaw is the biggest and strongest Imperial Griffon (which are iirc hte biggest griffons in the WH world) ever...

4) Unique Units: in the lore there are 2 Branches of the Reiksguard: the Reiksguard Knights or Imperial Cavalry AND the Imperial Foot. Again an excerpt from the WH FB Wiki:
Though known mostly for their expertise in cavalry warfare, the Reikguards are normally divided into a mounted arm known as the Reiksguard Knights, or the Imperial Cavalry, and an infantry arm, that they called the Imperial Foot. Although the infantry arm does not have the glamorous image of their cavalry counterparts, they are nonetheless a crack and flexible fighting force.They are based near the Emperor's palace and can be seen parading through the streets, escorting the Emperor on state occasions, and patrolling the city walls when the Emperor is on leave. The Reiksguard foot regiments are normally protected by both shields and heavily-armoured suits of full plate, adorned with a dazziling array of plumes and ribbons and kept polished to a mirror-like finish. They are armed with heavy swords, halberds or great two-handed swords that they fight in conjunction with other Imperial regiments, providing a flexible and battle-hardened support unit that provides exceptional aid in offence and defence.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Order_of_the_Reiksguard

so i'd suggest to add the Imperial foot as units recruitable only for the armies of Karl Franz himself aswell as maybe the Reiksmarshals army. in effect they would be elite Versions (and quite expensive ones, yet still beaten by elite infantry of Chaos, GS, Dwarfs etc. in straight up fights) of the Swordsmen, Halberdiers and Greatswords,to allow the Emperors (and the Reiksmarshals... since he's the Grandmaster of the Reiksguard) army to have an elite backbone based around these units, imho they should be recruitable from the Reiksfort with the same requirements as the Reiksguard.

t would give a nice little motiviation to use Karl Franz more instead of normal Generals, but to avoid having the Imperial Foot units make the normal units obsolete for Karls and the Reiksmarshals armies they could be limited to, let's say, 4 or maybe 6 units per army (so 12 alltogether) and, as already mentioned, be quite expensive in recruitement and upkeek.

and again: as i said i'm open to suggestions for improvement of these ideas^^
Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.

Comments

  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,395Registered Users
    edited February 21
    Wow, that would make him a little too powerful. Remember Valten?(If he gets added) I'm not saying he should replace Franz or be too significantly more powerful than him but that's the role Valten would play. Valten is the "Avatar Champion of Sigmar". I would consider him the supreme fighting choose for the empire.

    I think Karl Franz as emperor and being the greatest statemen should have a skill to lower all the upkeep in his personal army significantly and have a huge aura of leadership . I think Valten should play the super powerful warrior role for the Empire.

    What do you think?
    Post edited by ChaosDragonBorn on
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users
    it should be noted that Valten isn't ingame yet... and with Valten there would be the problem that we would have Ghal maraz then on 2 Lords

    i do agree though that the buffs from Ghal Maraz and the Armour shouldnt transform him into a one man army^^ Both the Armour aswell as Ghal maraz could also provide (improved) leadership skills, but imho currently the amount of work one has to do for Ghal Maraz is not really balanced out by it's advantages(and as i mentioned the Runefang and Ghal Maraz share the same slot, giving him the disadvantage of not being capable of using all his Legendary Items)... with the buff i really didnt mean a buff of +200 armour and 250 attack but Ghal maraz is only a slgiht improvement over the Reikland Runefang iirc... so a bit more than currently, maybe:
    8 attack for Ghal Maraz (instead of 6)
    5 to 10% Weapon damage as standard improvement (currently non outside of the ability)
    a slgiht reduction in corruption (well... it's the Weapon of Sigmar afterall)

    Armour:
    I'm open for ideas^^

    and the base idea of the Leadership: yeah... but i think he could use some more buffing to his units too

    and for the super powerfulw arriot thing: We also have Helborg who is considered the Empires greatest swordsmen open for inclusion... and/or Schwarzhelm
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users
    Also, sry for Double poste and mstakes, am zwing Mythos Smartphone right now, i dont mean that ca should inclusdr all Ideas but its more ment to be a grab bag of potentially interesting improvements For Karl franz
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,395Registered Users
    I know, I spoke as if Valten is going to be added. My bad.

    Ghal Maraz (In addition to current attributes)
    Increase Leadership aura 25%
    +5 melee defense for Greatswords
    +5 charge to Reiksguard
    -30% upkeep to army
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 2,971Registered Users
    KF should have similar skills to what Orion gets, Moghur and Louen.

    What I mean is Orion gets big upkeep reduction to Wild Riders.

    KF could get for Demigryph Knights, while future Kult Helborg would be with Reiksguard reduction but increased Demigryph upkeep.

    Heir of Sigmar ability, makes all units for certain time unbreakable or immune to psychology.

    Also reduced upkeep of State Troops would welcome, and only for him.
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users
    edited February 21

    I know, I spoke as if Valten is going to be added. My bad.

    Ghal Maraz (In addition to current attributes)
    Increase Leadership aura 25%
    +5 melee defense for Greatswords
    +5 charge to Reiksguard
    -30% upkeep to army

    nice idea

    KF should have similar skills to what Orion gets, Moghur and Louen.

    What I mean is Orion gets big upkeep reduction to Wild Riders.

    KF could get for Demigryph Knights, while future Kult Helborg would be with Reiksguard reduction but increased Demigryph upkeep.

    Heir of Sigmar ability, makes all units for certain time unbreakable or immune to psychology.

    Also reduced upkeep of State Troops would welcome, and only for him.

    well.. the Problem with the Demigryph/Reiksguard idea is: the Reiksguard are the Emperors HOUSEHOLD troops... so... well...
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 2,971Registered Users
    edited February 21

    I know, I spoke as if Valten is going to be added. My bad.

    Ghal Maraz (In addition to current attributes)
    Increase Leadership aura 25%
    +5 melee defense for Greatswords
    +5 charge to Reiksguard
    -30% upkeep to army

    nice idea

    KF should have similar skills to what Orion gets, Moghur and Louen.

    What I mean is Orion gets big upkeep reduction to Wild Riders.

    KF could get for Demigryph Knights, while future Kult Helborg would be with Reiksguard reduction but increased Demigryph upkeep.

    Heir of Sigmar ability, makes all units for certain time unbreakable or immune to psychology.

    Also reduced upkeep of State Troops would welcome, and only for him.

    well.. the Problem with the Demigryph/Reiksguard idea is: the Reiksguard are the Emperors HOUSEHOLD troops... so... well...
    But Kurt Helborg is Reikshmarshal if he was Legendary Lord then yes.

    Otherwise KF should get it :)
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 153Registered Users
    Improved Deathclaw and armor would be enough
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 153Registered Users
    I would also like Empire to get some form of + to Lord levels when recruited
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 2,971Registered Users
    edited February 23
    Hmmm I was thinking if Bretonnia can call Green Knight, why not do something like this for KF and call Schwarzhelm for few turns?

    http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ludwig_Schwarzhelm

    Ludwig Schwarzhelm, known as the Emperor's Champion or the Emperor's Sword of Justice is the personal bodyguard of Karl Franz and bearer of his personal battle standard.
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users
    Schwarzhelm "for a few turns"? He doesnt appear and disappear like the Green Knight... Karl Franz uses him pretty much like an agent in the game... so i wouldnt mind him being a legendary hero you get when starting with/recruiting Karl Franz. But only temporary? He still is "only" a man
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 153Registered Users
    Would love to get Swarzhelm as an improved and better looking empire capt
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 2,971Registered Users

    Schwarzhelm "for a few turns"? He doesnt appear and disappear like the Green Knight... Karl Franz uses him pretty much like an agent in the game... so i wouldnt mind him being a legendary hero you get when starting with/recruiting Karl Franz. But only temporary? He still is "only" a man

    Aaaaand?

    Summoning doesn't mean to get something from another world etheral or daemonic. He would be called normally from wherever he is serving, add Kurt Helborg as LL and there is an interesting bunch of characters (I read the book Emperor Armies that's why :P )

    He would be powerful melee character called only by Karl Franz to support him in war effort or sent as agent crush the opposition, each faction could get this system for Legendary Heroes as of now.

    He could lead armies by his decree, but Helborg is more suitable and he is proper LL in the army book.

    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users

    Schwarzhelm "for a few turns"? He doesnt appear and disappear like the Green Knight... Karl Franz uses him pretty much like an agent in the game... so i wouldnt mind him being a legendary hero you get when starting with/recruiting Karl Franz. But only temporary? He still is "only" a man

    Aaaaand?

    Summoning doesn't mean to get something from another world etheral or daemonic. He would be called normally from wherever he is serving, add Kurt Helborg as LL and there is an interesting bunch of characters (I read the book Emperor Armies that's why :P )

    He would be powerful melee character called only by Karl Franz to support him in war effort or sent as agent crush the opposition, each faction could get this system for Legendary Heroes as of now.

    He could lead armies by his decree, but Helborg is more suitable and he is proper LL in the army book.

    i simply mean that imho it wouldnt really fit to summon him, not ebcause "Summon" in the sense of magic but because, imho, he should be permanent... a vastly improved version of the current Empire Captain hero

    and yes: Helborg should be the LL of the 2 :smiley:
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • HartassenHartassen Junior Member Posts: 83Registered Users
    Karl franz definitely needs a buff. Nobody who's competitive at this game would think of bringing him to a quick battle.

    The most obvious buff due to the lore would be to give him 120 armor just like ironbreakers and other high armor units considering what type of armor he's actually wearing. I'm sure he needs more buffs than that but it would be a good start.

    He frequently loses to a generic empire general due to the RNG of combat Yes, the one that costs 500-525 less gold. His unique weapons cost too much and have too long cooldowns to be valuable. His silver seal isn't purchaseable in multiplayer so there's no way to boost his survivability except spamming regrowth on him. And if I want to do that then why not brig the "real emperor": boris todbringer who performs twice as well as franz does and is actually CHEAPER!

    Please do something CA. One of the most iconic figures in warhammer is a total waste of money in competitive play.
    "Ah, but the truth is like an expensive ****, Jerek. She comes in many dresses and will bend over for any with the money to pamper her." ~ Konrad von Carstein
  • gladonosgladonos Posts: 417Registered Users

    Hello folks,

    due to some stuff in recent threads (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191271/the-gap-between-old-and-new-content-has-become-too-big/p3 and https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191274/bretonnia-campaign-info-from-pcgamer/p4) i had the idea to make this lil thread to gather some ideas how to improve one of the most bland Vanilla LLs... not as bad as Ungrim, Gelt or Kemmler... but imho still not really impressive, especially if compared to newer LLs... the emperor Karl Franz


    and again: as i said i'm open to suggestions for improvement of these ideas^^

    You may wanna edit Gelt out because now he far exceeds the other empire LLs and i feel likes hes now like vlad used to be where you can't NOT pick him...

    It's stupid to suggest that Karl Mar-i mean Franz... should get unique units so here is my suggestions for him, Kemmler, Mannfred and Azhag:



    Karl Franz:

    His upkeep reduction should apply to halberdiers.

    +5 leadership to all forces faction wide.



    Kemmlar:

    25% upkeep reduction for necromancers removed and added to Helman Ghorst.

    40% upkeep reduction to Zombies and Skeletons .

    Krell added as a starter Wight king that has the lore of fire.



    Mannfred:

    +2 Capacity for Wight kings.



    Azhag:

    Change the starter units to: Orc boy big 'uns, Night goblin archers and Trolls.

    Upkeep reduction for Trolls and Giants by 25%.



  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 1,302Registered Users
    edited March 11

    I know, I spoke as if Valten is going to be added. My bad.

    Ghal Maraz (In addition to current attributes)
    Increase Leadership aura 25%
    +5 melee defense for Greatswords
    +5 charge to Reiksguard
    -30% upkeep to army

    25 aura and -30 percent upkeep are too large. I'd say decrease army upkeep 6 percent and increase aura 6 percent.
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.
  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Senior Member Posts: 3,103Registered Users
    I like the ideas in the OP, particularly #2 and #3.

    What I would change about Deathclaw is just lessen the penalties to melee attack and defense. Yea, that will make him strong but it should. Deathclaw saves Franz (by sacrificing himself) I believe in the end times. Deathclaw is awesome and half the reason I always choose Franz still.

    Also, afaik, Karl Franz is the only lord to have a legendary item that replaces another one? Ghal Maraz and Reikland Runefang....Do any other lords have two of the same slot quest items?

    I'd like to see the Reikland Runefang, as cool as it is, to be changed to something else personally.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 4,112Registered Users
    "Also, afaik, Karl Franz is the only lord to have a legendary item that replaces another one? Ghal Maraz and Reikland Runefang....Do any other lords have two of the same slot quest items?"
    nope, only Karl
    Every wrong is recorded! Every slight against us! Page after Page, etched in blood! Clan Gunnison! Karak Eight-Peaks! Josef Bugman!

    Metal noise, blood and fire, tell me what you most desire.

    You've got some demon flesh on your bumper, but that's just the way the world is today I'm afraid.
  • HeroofRome1HeroofRome1 Member Posts: 1,298Registered Users

    I like the ideas in the OP, particularly #2 and #3.

    What I would change about Deathclaw is just lessen the penalties to melee attack and defense. Yea, that will make him strong but it should. Deathclaw saves Franz (by sacrificing himself) I believe in the end times. Deathclaw is awesome and half the reason I always choose Franz still.

    Also, afaik, Karl Franz is the only lord to have a legendary item that replaces another one? Ghal Maraz and Reikland Runefang....Do any other lords have two of the same slot quest items?

    I'd like to see the Reikland Runefang, as cool as it is, to be changed to something else personally.

    Maybe once you unlock Ghal Maraz you could gift the Reikland Runefang to another lord?
    Team Dwarfs, Team Empire, Team Bretonnia Team Grim, Team elf slayers, Team Belegar
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Posts: 199Registered Users



    Maybe once you unlock Ghal Maraz you could gift the Reikland Runefang to another lord?

    Or maybe he can give Ghal Maraz to somebody.
    ...someone used to hammers
    ...someone of the metalurgic profession
    ...a smith




  • Ares354Ares354 Posts: 98Registered Users
    From TT point of view.

    He's armor is like Dwarf one, so should be 120. He's silver seal give him magic resistance 2, so in game about 20%. And 4+ word save so bonus armor or defense skill this item give him.

    Ghal Maraz need dmg buff, a bit more, cos Karl don't use shield like Luen so I don't see reason he's offensive and dmg should be on same level.

    And as for Mount, Karl can use Dragon as well. Both Deathclaw and Imperial Dragon can have idfferent abilites to be usefull vs other faction.

    In what Karl sucks is defense skill, pathetic 30. As person who use Hammer in fight with no shield, he's offense should be higer then Luen.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 876Registered Users
    edited August 12

    "Also, afaik, Karl Franz is the only lord to have a legendary item that replaces another one? Ghal Maraz and Reikland Runefang....Do any other lords have two of the same slot quest items?"
    nope, only Karl

    That's because Karl Franz is the Emporer and the Elector Count of Reikland which grants him access to both weapons, not to mention the Reikland Runefang is mainly a backup weapon due to Ghal Maraz being the stronger weapon.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Posts: 774Registered Users
    I´d love to see imperial foot ( more durable elites to reenforce line..... would be nice...)

    Ok

    Improvements for MP :

    Add his silver seal as item : Granting 25 % Magic resistance , 15 % physical resistance and +10 MD

    Add effect to Ghal Maraz : Magic dmg ( passive) , to active ability : +10 MA ; +10 sec duration ; unbreakable for Karl

    His armor ( if still required) : +15 A ; + 20 physical resistance


    Add abilitiy perma ability, that buffs reiksguard when fielded together with karl " The Emperors finest" giving Immune to psy and MD to Reiksguard.

    Add an ability to signiyfy his position as leader of the Empire " For Sigmar, For the Empire !" Increase Ldrship by 10, MA by 8 and CB by 12 ( not % to buff the line infantry) . Duration 24 sec.

    Improvements for Campaign :

    We need an way that the Emperor actually feels like the Emperor. Suggestion :

    Electorial council. You have to maintain balance between the provinces and hold support of the council to a certain degree, otherwise an counter-Emperor may be called out.Depending on your support in the council, you ll get xy allies and a secsession war might happen, if you don t act quickly, cause some provinces may be neutral.Their favor you could gain through ,again , doing their pleads.

    To simulate politics, the event windows form Attila could be used, as well as your general actions towards electors, your actions in regards to their biddings ( support in war, give money, give city back, destroy region xy etc)

    You would also be able to call out imperial commands, basically rally the Empire as a whole against an united enemy, again, depending on your influence xy electors will follow, order an stop of war between electors and generally influence the gouverning of the Empire.