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Game 2 Minor factions

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  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,030
    edited March 2017
    Cult of Slaanesh. Not a race unto itself but as an unplayable minor Dark Elf faction as enemy to perhaps both High Elves and Dark Elves.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    edited March 2017
    RikRiorik said:

    Cult of Slaanesh. Not a race unto itself but as an unplayable minor Dark Elf faction as enemy to perhaps both High Elves and Dark Elves.

    A question on this one. How do you include Slaanesh (or Khorne) as anything other than DLC, when they had to add blood as a DLC in order not to fall foul of Australia's (and presumably some other nations') age restrictions?
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,030
    az88 said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Cult of Slaanesh. Not a race unto itself but as an unplayable minor Dark Elf faction as enemy to perhaps both High Elves and Dark Elves.

    A question on this one. How do you include Slaanesh (or Khorne) as anything other than DLC, when they had to add blood as a DLC in order not to fall foul of Australia's (and presumably some other nation's) age restrictions?
    No idea. I have no idea what the restrictions are or what age limit the current game has. But you can include Slaaneshi units without them having to be orifice perforating snake pitters. If not then Dark Elves are foiled anyways as the Witch Elves are hardly known for the stylishness of their burkas.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038

    MrJade said:

    That's a wild assumption. I see no way for Skaven to be in Game II. DE, HE, Lizardmen, and TKs.

    Aren't tomb kings exclusively old world? There's at least historical Skaven in the new world. Could easily make an argument for Skaven trying to retake ground from lizardmen.
    They could do it by expanding the map in an L shape, south and west at the same time. If you look at the datamined full map there is a border between Lustria and Nehekara which isn't in the game yet even though there is a body of water separating them. I think Skaven are still more likely because they are easier Lizardmen rivals but Tomb Kings are definitely possible.
    I really have no idea which is "more likely" just because we don't really have much information to go on other than the data mine and how still set that is. Which if I'm not mistaken listed tomb kings as dlc for this game which I don't think is going to happen. The fact that they have said they've expanded their plans though hopefully means we do get more minor factions and minor races. I'll love to see factions with slight roster updates in the new world like vampire pirates or entirely new minor races like amazons.

    MrJade said:

    That's a wild assumption. I see no way for Skaven to be in Game II. DE, HE, Lizardmen, and TKs.

    Aren't tomb kings exclusively old world? There's at least historical Skaven in the new world. Could easily make an argument for Skaven trying to retake ground from lizardmen.
    They could do it by expanding the map in an L shape, south and west at the same time. If you look at the datamined full map there is a border between Lustria and Nehekara which isn't in the game yet even though there is a body of water separating them. I think Skaven are still more likely because they are easier Lizardmen rivals but Tomb Kings are definitely possible.
    I really have no idea which is "more likely" just because we don't really have much information to go on other than the data mine and how still set that is. Which if I'm not mistaken listed tomb kings as dlc for this game which I don't think is going to happen. The fact that they have said they've expanded their plans though hopefully means we do get more minor factions and minor races. I'll love to see factions with slight roster updates in the new world like vampire pirates or entirely new minor races like amazons.
    I stated why I find it more likely that Skaven will be instead of Tomb Kings (This is assuming that the New World is in game 2.) In the post you responded to- they have a rivalry with one particular Skaven clan, which could give CA the excuse to make them rivals with the whole faction.

    As for minor factions, I believe that we will see them playable. They will be made playable instead of major factions being added like it was in game 1. The Beastmen, Wood Elves and possibly Chaos Warriors will be the only major factions to be entirely DLC by the end of game 3. I think Araby and Kislev are dead certs for this at some point (I saw on this forum that Araby has/had a roster in Warmaster or something and I believe Kislev was playable in the 6th edition.), with Tilea being probable (Because apparently a lot of the Dogs of War roster was Tilean.) and the Amazons are also in with a shout. Estalia and The Border Princes are also possiblilities, although I don't think we know as much about them as the other 4 I mentioned above (Will have to consult the Wiki.). We could also get a fleshing out of Norsca to make them playable, with new unique units to go alongside the current chaos units they have. I also think in game 3 there will be DLC of other Daemon factions if they are split into 4 and only 2 are playable in the base game for instance. The other 2 will be DLC for that game at some point.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165


    To be fair, that is our assumption at this point. CA has said that the games will all tie in together. They have not said how that will work or if you'll get the other areas if you don't own those games. You're making that assumption based on how DLC has worked for this game. I'm not saying that won't happen, just that it is speculation. Not fact. That also means that people who only own game 2 are completely separate from the other main races of the game which seems unlikely and would only work in the scenario you describe of anyone who purchase one game gets all of the map content from the others.

    That's my point with the differentiation between facts and speculation. It's a fact the that maps will fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. From an economic viewpoint it makes sense to have the maps be all the same (you can see factions you don't own, don't you want to play them?), and from a programming standpoint (if the maps aren't always connected that is a lot of variables by Game III, it's 1+2, 2+3, 1+3, and 1+2+3, that's 4 different cases to troubleshoot, and cause glitches. What if 1+3 but not 2 causes instability? Would CA even try to fix it? Why not just have all the maps always together, save time and headache.)

    Logically it makes sense what I am saying about the maps. Logically it makes sense to keep Skaven until Game III. Could it happen before? Of course. TKs just seem more likely as they can sell a lot of DLC, but aren't super requested, unlike Skaven and the Elves. This gives every game a "most wanted faction". And again, I'm not a TK fanboy. I don't know anything about Fantasy other than what I have read since I got the game. If anything, I am a slight Empire/Dorf and more HE fanboy.

  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,779
    Assuming Game 2 is HE, DE, LM, Skaven and DoC...

    Each of those races gets a few minor factions. Also possible that Empire and VC get provinces around the "Vampire Coast."

    Amazons is ridiculous and will not happen (could be an event).
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    edited March 2017
    seriouslyi, i dont understand why so many people want more human factions in a fantasy game^^

    and when im not wrong in ustiria is a ig HE outpost
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Registered Users Posts: 601
    edited March 2017
    Because getting a faction like the Fimir would essentially be impossible because some people are way too sensitive about them and their lore.

    Fimir examples
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  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    edited March 2017
    this looks lieke fremen from heroquest ; )
  • MakoTheMakoMakoTheMako Registered Users Posts: 1,246
    edited March 2017
    I hope Skaven are a woefully incomplete pre-order DLC faction so I can gain sustenance from the salt and anguish of Skaven fans as they beg for roster additions and are told they are being entitled and to just wait possibly years for their roster to maybe be completed.

    I hope they flesh out the pirates of Sartosa to make sea-faring more interesting.

    die about it

  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    edited March 2017
    dotn forget that FLC work for DLC races
    and it looks like CA learn a muich with game 1
  • chezequerzchezequerz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 300
    If it makes sense for Skaven to be in game 3 rather than 2 then it would be logical that the High Elves, Dark Elves and Lizard men would be in the same 3rd game.

    Tomb Kings are based in Nehekhara which is on the wrong continent entirely. So unless they elected to add all the new world, cut out one of its major players and then add some more to the old world only to later complete that section of the old world and then drop the Skaven into the already released new world I'd say there's really no logical reason that the Tomb Kings would be in the same game as the Elves rather than with Chaos Dwarves or Ogres.
    wyrd bið ful aræd
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065


    I hope they flesh out the pirates of Sartosa to make sea-faring more interesting.

    You'd imagine they'd be rather easy to do (as an army) with a bit of modding, if CA don't bother.

    Free company militia, Handgunners, Swordsmen and Witch Hunters would all work well as human pirates with minor adjustments. You could then have Goblin pirates as cannon fodder, or even better reskin Sneaky Stabbers as a goblin boarding party. Various Elven units and Marauders would also be viable.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165

    If it makes sense for Skaven to be in game 3 rather than 2 then it would be logical that the High Elves, Dark Elves and Lizard men would be in the same 3rd game.

    Tomb Kings are based in Nehekhara which is on the wrong continent entirely. So unless they elected to add all the new world, cut out one of its major players and then add some more to the old world only to later complete that section of the old world and then drop the Skaven into the already released new world I'd say there's really no logical reason that the Tomb Kings would be in the same game as the Elves rather than with Chaos Dwarves or Ogres.

    Again, the map will be complete no matter what you own, and there are no Skaven in the NW, the Lizardmen have killed them all. This is as per documents sourced by Red Dox.
  • Lord_NathanaelLord_Nathanael Registered Users Posts: 1,496
    Merarches said:

    this looks lieke fremen from heroquest ; )

    thats because they are! I didn't know they were called fremen in english though. I played it in german back as a kid, and it had the same name like the fantasy battle race. fimir

    btw, heroquest is actually a warhammer licence game. if you know it and look at the models, it becomes obvious.


    but yeah, fimir hardly have any chance to be included, a society that survives solely on kidnapping and raping. with most of their monsters designs strait out some tentacle hentai


    feel free to point out my errors, I'd like to improve my english
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,870
    MrJade said:

    If it makes sense for Skaven to be in game 3 rather than 2 then it would be logical that the High Elves, Dark Elves and Lizard men would be in the same 3rd game.

    Tomb Kings are based in Nehekhara which is on the wrong continent entirely. So unless they elected to add all the new world, cut out one of its major players and then add some more to the old world only to later complete that section of the old world and then drop the Skaven into the already released new world I'd say there's really no logical reason that the Tomb Kings would be in the same game as the Elves rather than with Chaos Dwarves or Ogres.

    Again, the map will be complete no matter what you own, and there are no Skaven in the NW, the Lizardmen have killed them all. This is as per documents sourced by Red Dox.
    I will upload a video burning my High King Edition Great Book of Grudges box if Skaven are not featured at all in Lustria in game 2.

    Lizardmen need something major to fight.

    CA has taken the gameplay > lore stance many times now. This is another example of that. It's not exactly difficult to justify the Skaven coming back to the New World either...
    MarcusLivius: You are indeed a lord of entitlement.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    If you add Skaven into game two it allows Lizardmen to have an errantry war style mechanic, but with Sotek.
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,330
    edited March 2017
    Bies said:



    I think that the Estalia will work as chaos in old world, sending some expeditions , raiding your lands and razing your cities.

    nah, that's Skaven in warhammer, but I get your reference.

    Humans don't really go into Lustria's jungles

    But yeah, I think Skaven should be for game 3. Dark Elves have also been known to raid the temples of lustria

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,968
    New World from north to south:

    At the very top, you have the Chaos Wastes, occupied by both demons and mortal Chaos worshippers.

    Then, you have the Dark Elf lands of Naggaroth.

    South of the Dark Elf lands, and in the mountains on the western side of the continent, you have a mix of greenskins (mostly escaped Dark Elf slaves) and, according to the Beasts of Chaos book, beastmen. The 'beastmen' have a very different morphology to the Old World beastmen, however, and could in fact be interpreted as Lizardmen described by an in-universe writer who doesn't realise that the Lizardmen aren't Children of Chaos.

    Then there's the High Elf colony of Arheim, followed by more 'no-man's land' that's probably inhabited by Greenskins.

    Then you reach the isthmus, which is where the Lizardmen start. You also have Norse and Southern Realm colonies along the isthmus.

    The inland of Lustria is mostly controlled by the Lizardmen, but the coast is a little more interesting. Somewhere in there are pygmies. The mouth of the Amaxon River is the home of the Amazons, while the Scorpion and Tarantula Coasts (as well as having previously had greenskins) have a number of defiled Lizardmen sites that remain a significant demonic influence. Rounding the northwestern 'corner' of Lustria you hit Vampire Coast, and then in the middle you have a region devastated by the Skaven. South of there it's mostly Lizardmen stuff until you hit the High Elf Citadel of Dusk, although there is a 'headhunter's jungle' in there which could mean pygmies.

    Now, we can probably assume that if DoC are implemented, they'd be a major faction, as would Skaven. This gives the following candidates for minor factions:

    WoC
    Beastmen (maybe)
    Greenskins (lots of)
    Norse
    Southern Realms
    Amazons*
    Pygmies*
    Vampire Counts

    Those marked with an asterisk would require the development of a new list, may cause CA some flak for cultural sensitivity reasons, and may be too minor even to include as minor factions. So I can see them not bothering with those. However, that would give them four to six distinct minor factions they could use... which is more than there were in the original release.

    Regarding Ulthuan... nothing else has established itself on Ulthuan to enough of an extent to be considered a minor faction. The main threats from within are mutated monsters and demons coming down from the Annulii Mountains (which is part of the reason I personally think Game 2 should have demons, although harpies are known to be present in some parts of the Annulii), although Ulthuan is also threatened by raiders coming from across the ocean (mostly, but not exclusively Norse and WoC proper) - and the odd Dark Elf invasion, of course.


    Lizardmen need something major to fight.

    Demons of Chaos would also serve in that role, and have had more interactions with both races of Elves than the Skaven.
  • MakoTheMakoMakoTheMako Registered Users Posts: 1,246
    Beastmen and Savage Orcs are kinda ubiquitous the world over, for the most part.

    die about it

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,968
    edited March 2017
    Well, the greenskins got to the New World because the Dark Elves brought them over as slaves. They don't seem to be able to get a permanent foothold in Lustria - the Lizardmen seem to jump on them with both feet every time they try to move in, and they may well have a means of inhibiting spores from growing back.

    It also seems that Grom's invasion wasn't enough to get them a permanent presence on Ulthuan either - there's no mention of a persistent greenskin problem after the final battle.

    Similarly, the Beasts of Chaos book (which has a map showing global concentrations of Beastmen) has them missing from areas that are strongly under the control of High Elves, Lizardmen, or Tomb Kings. Interestingly, the Dark Lands are also Beastmen-free.

    Greenskins do make a fairly convenient "if you don't know what's there, it's probably them" race, though. Often as not, you'd be right.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    edited March 2017
    Draxynnic said:


    It also seems that Grom's invasion wasn't enough to get them a permanent presence on Ulthuan either - there's no mention of a persistent greenskin problem after the final battle.

    I can think of at least two lots of WD fluff, with battle reports, that place Goblins in the mountains of Ulthuan.

    *edit* It's also worth noting that Grom wasn't killed in battle and various bits of fluff have him surviving and either escaping Ulthuan or dwelling in the mountains. That, as far as I'm aware, is still the case with 8th edition.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 15,480
    I don't see the High Elves, Lizardmen, or Tomb Kings tolerating the presence of the Beastman one way or another. The Lizards would murder all of them pitilessly. Ulthuan lacked any humans to have been turned into Beastmen, and the High Elves seem to have means of keeping them off. Tomb Kings live in a poisoned desert that is mostly uninhabitable by living things... and they wouldn't tolerate Beastmen putting down roots.

    And what do you mean about the Dark Lands not having any? Of course they do... what do you think the Chaos Dwarfs are? Okay, so I'm being silly, but more seriously the Chaos Dwarfs are pretty orderly for a Chaos faction and wouldn't likely tolerate Beastmen either... though it also might just have more to do with a lack of forests.
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  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    It depends what you mean by "Beastmen", Canuovea. Not all Beastmen in the warhammer world as the angry-goat-boy type you get in the old world. In the east you get Beastmen like tigers, in other areas they're more like dogs etc. So a lack of forests isn't an issue for all kinds of Beastmen and you could just include all of them as Gors as a shorthand.

    The issue with them in the Steppes is probably Hobgoblins....who I'm really hoping will make it in. Not much survives the horde of the great Hobgobla Khan - the most powerful leader of greenskins in the warhammer world.
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Registered Users Posts: 601
    I wouldn't mind seeing something like this in the next game for the beastmen... although I'm almost positive we wont
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065

    I wouldn't mind seeing something like this in the next game for the beastmen... although I'm almost positive we wont

    Would be cool as a Ghorgon from Ind.
  • SirEyeballSirEyeball Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 56
    No matter where they expand the map there will be greenskins (Ulthuan not but there are tribes on the small Islands close to it) So there will be more Greenskin factions.
    I watch
    And learn
  • MakoTheMakoMakoTheMako Registered Users Posts: 1,246
    There are regional variant Beastmen all over. Even bug Beastmen. Technically old world Gors are primarily Caprigors, goat men, and Bovigors, who are bull men, whom I affectionately call "Minitaurs"

    Obviously there aren't many in the dark lands, but they do range across the East and the Southlands

    die about it

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,968
    Canuovea said:

    And what do you mean about the Dark Lands not having any? Of course they do... what do you think the Chaos Dwarfs are? Okay, so I'm being silly, but more seriously the Chaos Dwarfs are pretty orderly for a Chaos faction and wouldn't likely tolerate Beastmen either... though it also might just have more to do with a lack of forests.

    I was using the world map in Beasts of Chaos, which shows a 'heat map' of Beastmen concentrations across the world. The largest portions that are 'clean' are Lustria, Ulthuan, Nehekhara and the Dark Lands. (Interestingly, the Southern Realms are also pretty beastmen-free according to that map.)

    My suspicion is that, with the Dark Lands being basically the closest thing the greenskins have to a homeland, the beastmen were never able to get a foothold in the region.

    Of course, there is the element that the Bull Centaurs and other taurine hybrids with the Chaos Dwarfs should count. Maybe the distinction is that they're beastdwarfs rather than beastmen?

    That said, according to the lore, the Old World style beastmen should only really be present in the Old World - other parts of the world have their own versions. CA could ignore this and just clone them, but they could also just not have Beastmen elsewhere and avoid the issue that way. Greenskins do make a suitable 'they're everywhere!' race after all, and the greenskin list is probably universal (perhaps with some deletions) pretty much everywhere except the far east where hobgoblins are dominant.
  • MakoTheMakoMakoTheMako Registered Users Posts: 1,246
    Da East Is Green- Grimgug Ironguy

    die about it

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