Bretonnia Patch Now Live

CA_Whelan

Patch Notes:

The Total War: WARHAMMER multiplayer leaderboards have been reset.
A 5% score penalty will now be applied to users caught drop-hacking from multiplayer battles (disconnecting under suspicious circumstances).
Fix for users becoming unable to save the game, after the last chapter mission is completed on Legendary difficulty.
Fixed a missing building chain in the Grung Zint settlement.
All income types from Farming/Industry bonuses are now being applied correctly to all resource buildings.
Fixed a rare crash when disbanding Heroes on the campaign map.
Fix for Guardians of the Lady skill giving magic resistance instead of missile resistance.
Fix for Gelt's Pegasus unlock level.
Fix for inconsistency between Strigoi and Ghorst spells and the main lore spells.
Chivalry is no longer gained for torturing people in during Quests.
Updated garrison for Couronne and removed wall building chain.
Various text, game guide and localisation fixes.

Balancing Changes:

Questing Knights
- 8 Charge Bonus

Foot Squires
- 10 Leadership
- 6 Charge Bonus

Men-at-Arms
+ 25 Cost

Helman Ghorsts's Vanhel Danse Macabre
-1 Power Cost

Strigoi's Soulblight
+1 Power Cost

LestaT

Save game compatible?

ODM_Emptythought

The Leaderboard is reset but will we still have our win count ? I have 2900 wins, will I still be able to see that ?

dodge33cymru

Balance changes sound good.

MrMecH

GG, Foot Squire. We will miss you.

Lotus_Moon

So no bret infantry nerfs? hmm ok time to avoid brets till they get balanced.

Thanks for the reset though

Icestrugle

Lotus_Moon said:

So no bret infantry nerfs? hmm ok time to avoid brets till they get balanced.

Thanks for the reset though

What that means then ?

Foot Squires
- 10 Leadership
- 6 Charge Bonus

Men-at-Arms
+ 25 Cost

Argon

Lotus_Moon said:

So no bret infantry nerfs? hmm ok time to avoid brets till they get balanced.

Thanks for the reset though

Foot squires got nerfed and the men at arms had their cost increased

Lotus_Moon

Those nerfs ain't even addressing the problem, Pilgrims are the most op and Foot Squires damage didn't get touched, they could lose 30 LD and nothing would change as they don't lose combat they win it, Besides with the Grail Relique (which is tanky like crazy) around they still high leadership.

The Man-at-arms nerf is the only real nerf, though who uses them? when you got battle pilgrims and food squires

Questing knights -8 Charge Damage, umm its their prolong fighting power and monster killing power that should be nerfed not charge damage.

At least i can still dodge people who select brets until they get fixed.

CA_Whelan

LestaT said:

Save game compatible?

Saves should be fine but you may need to update your mods

Lotus_Moon

ODM_Emptythought said:

The Leaderboard is reset but will we still have our win count ? I have 2900 wins, will I still be able to see that ?

Looks like you keep your 2900 wins, never mind you dont

Wing Zero

MrMecH said:

GG, Foot Squire. We will miss you.

Peasants shouldnt be beating longbeards.

DreadedNorwegian

Brettonia nerfed?? THey should be buffed, at least their morale.

Dalakh

I would have liked to see a -10 Ld on the Grail Pilgrims as well and more importantly a reduction in the Ld buff on the Grail Reliquae from +16 to +12 or as an inferior change an appropriate price increase (and a -10 Ld to keep consistent with Grail Pilgrims).

If their price is not gonna increase the weapon strength of Foot Squires should be put in line with Greatswords.

I feel like the Questing Knights should lose a small amount of weapon strength aswell. 46 is just incredibly high for a full sized cav unit.

Also not even a slight nerf on damage delt by the Mist of the Lady ? On a unit that can run at 85 something speed it's "pretty strong".

ODM_Emptythought

Lotus_Moon said:

Those nerfs ain't even addressing the problem, Pilgrims are the most op and Foot Squires damage didn't get touched, they could lose 30 LD and nothing would change as they don't lose combat they win it, Besides with the Grail Relique (which is tanky like crazy) around they still high leadership.

The Man-at-arms nerf is the only real nerf, though who uses them? when you got battle pilgrims and food squires

Questing knights -8 Charge Damage, umm its their prolong fighting power and monster killing power that should be nerfed not charge damage.

At least i can still dodge people who select brets until they get fixed.

CA now use the method : slowly but surely. They nerf things step by step and have decided to begin with charge bonus.
They sadly don't have a very fast balancing team (or they don't have a team and there's just one guy/girl doing the whole job xD).
Still, the charge bonus nerf will make them take less advantage from spaghetti line, thus making them lose against some units they didn't lose against (chaos warriors etc....). Don't forget that foot squires are still quite squishy and die very fast against mortars, crossbows, orc big uns = any unit with high damage. They still cost 700, let's not make them too underpowered. And -10 leadership is a hell lot. They will have the same leadership as most basic infantry while costing 2* as much.

As for the questing knight they aren't THAT op since they rout easily compared to other cavs (80 armour, no immunity or resistance). These guys get destroyed by anti-large units more than any cav from this price range. I think CA should lower their melee defence a bit (-4 or -5) so that they become a bit more squishy while still having a good DPS.
Don't forget that cav is the main part of bretonnia so making them OP is the least you can do : assymetrical balance !

Pilgrims are easy to deal with honestly. Archers, cav, high DPS infantry all deal good damage against them. Plus, their formation doesn't allow them to charge well compared to Foot squires.
If you have trouble with the bretonnian infantry line it's probably because you don't use the good units or you don't micro them well.
My main concern though would be the grail reliquae : it's like a mortis engine since it's a primary target and you are supposed to kill it with a hero/lord etc.... to make the infantry rout. Since it's almost not doable atm that gives every unit in the AOE a constant immunity to terror etc... and +16 leadership. That's like having a +40 leadership buff. Wich is indeed op if you can't destroy it.

Lucifer

Thanks, going to try the patch now and then update my mods as necessary.

LestaT

CA_Whelan said:

LestaT said:

Save game compatible?

Saves should be fine but you may need to update your mods

Thanks. I don't use mods right now. Just trying to finish my first legendary campaign now.

Emarth

The grail reliquae needs a defence nerf. It should be as easy to destroy as a corpse wagon.

Right now you can pretty much put it on the front line and shell it with artillery as the enemy bunch up around it failing to kill those three peasants.

Ondjage

Lotus_Moon said:

Those nerfs ain't even addressing the problem, Pilgrims are the most op and Foot Squires damage didn't get touched, they could lose 30 LD and nothing would change as they don't lose combat they win it, Besides with the Grail Relique (which is tanky like crazy) around they still high leadership.

The Man-at-arms nerf is the only real nerf, though who uses them? when you got battle pilgrims and food squires

Questing knights -8 Charge Damage, umm its their prolong fighting power and monster killing power that should be nerfed not charge damage.

At least i can still dodge people who select brets until they get fixed.

Im sorry but pilgrims are only really good against wood elves because they are flags with shields, GS eat them alive and empire, beastmen, chaos etc etc dont really have any struggles with them. For a 600 cost unit they dont overperform drasticly. The foot squire nerf might have been too much.... i would rather they have lost 3 damage then lost 10 LD as right now they might not even be worth 700 because they require a grail relique to even function as a main line unit.

-8 Charge Bonus is a huge nerf to any unit regarless if cav or infantry and the fact that you make it out be be some kind of joke shows that you clearly dont know how stats work. The questing knights might still be too good because of their Damage and stats but right now -8 charge seems like a solid nerf. as they will also lose 8 damage on the charge for every model in the unit so with spaghetti lines that means the first and second rank is gonna lose about 160 damage on the charge and 160 for the 2nd strike in combat. 360 damage decrease on the charge is a rather big deal.

Dalakh

Emarth said:

The grail reliquae needs a defence nerf. It should be as easy to destroy as a corpse wagon.

Right now you can pretty much put it on the front line and shell it with artillery as the enemy bunch up around it failing to kill those three peasants.

A bigger hitbox would be a start.

eumaies

If they had to nerf brettonia, this was a well designed tweak.

Questing knights are meant to be a situational can opener but with the charge they were serving as all purpose cavalry. This forces them to diversify without hurting their core function.

Squires now have a major weakness to exploit like the cowardly peasants they are. And their fighting stats were never that great without a spaghetti string-boosted charge. Now brettonia lacks a strong armored infantry option and will have to rely more on its cav, which is fine.

Battle pilgrims didn't need a nerf. Any armored infantry will wipe the floor with the savages now that foot squires are an inferior army core.

re: Grail Relique, they are hard to chase down, but at 600 points they better be. Most factions can get substantial leadership or psychology immunity bonuses for less cost so these are a pretty big investment to make in securing one portion of your battleline.

Lotus_Moon

Ondjage said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Those nerfs ain't even addressing the problem, Pilgrims are the most op and Foot Squires damage didn't get touched, they could lose 30 LD and nothing would change as they don't lose combat they win it, Besides with the Grail Relique (which is tanky like crazy) around they still high leadership.

The Man-at-arms nerf is the only real nerf, though who uses them? when you got battle pilgrims and food squires

Questing knights -8 Charge Damage, umm its their prolong fighting power and monster killing power that should be nerfed not charge damage.

At least i can still dodge people who select brets until they get fixed.

Im sorry but pilgrims are only really good against wood elves because they are flags with shields, GS eat them alive and empire, beastmen, chaos etc etc dont really have any struggles with them. For a 600 cost unit they dont overperform drasticly. The foot squire nerf might have been too much.... i would rather they have lost 3 damage then lost 10 LD as right now they might not even be worth 700 because they require a grail relique to even function as a main line unit.

-8 Charge Bonus is a huge nerf to any unit regarless if cav or infantry and the fact that you make it out be be some kind of joke shows that you clearly dont know how stats work. The questing knights might still be too good because of their Damage and stats but right now -8 charge seems like a solid nerf. as they will also lose 8 damage on the charge for every model in the unit so with spaghetti lines that means the first and second rank is gonna lose about 160 damage on the charge and 160 for the 2nd strike in combat. 360 damage decrease on the charge is a rather big deal.

I must admit with the way you explained the Charge Bonus i did not know that, so i stand corrected thinking it was nothing, still though their charge was not the thing that made them too strong by the way is there anywhere to view how certain stats work, apart from the basic description.

englisharcher89

When will you fix the download time, my gosh from 127 MB takes ages.

KhorneFlakes

thank god its just a beta..those changes are not enough for questing knights and foot squires and no changes to battle pilgrims ..??

also nobody wanted -10 leadreship debuff for footsquires we need them to hold line the problem is that melee stats are good
they do realize footsquire(700) 1v1 draw with greatswords(950 ).....why the living hell is it so hard to understand

questing knights 1v1..ing demigryphs.....and outperforming all other brit cav is somewhat ok..??/ they need much harder nerf.

only good one is just men at arms one

Arthasmenethril

Shouldn't Questing Knights have more Anti-Large then AP since I think they are more known for slaying Monsters then armoured targets.

Ciruelo

CA_Whelan said:

Chivalry is no longer gained for torturing people in during Quests.

Ciruelo

Foot squires need an melee attack and melee defense reduction. Their leadership was good before, they are meant to be brave but not good warriors, rather an aspiring of knight lets say... The charge bonus reduction is good tho.

As mentioned before, Bretonnia needs an infantry that can hold the line without breaking too early but they should never be able to win an infantry combat without the help of their cavalry. Make them stable so they can be the anvil, but let cavalry be the hammer.

KhorneFlakes

Ciruelo said:

Foot squires need an melee attack and melee defense reduction. Their leadership was good before, they are meant to be brave but not good warriors, rather an aspiring of knight lets say... The charge bonus reduction is good tho.

As mentioned before, Bretonnia needs an infantry that can hold the line without breaking too early but they should never be able to win an infantry combat without the help of their cavalry. Make them stable so they can be the anvil, but let cavalry be the hammer.

thank you exactly

bronhoms

Lotus_Moon said:

Ondjage said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Those nerfs ain't even addressing the problem, Pilgrims are the most op and Foot Squires damage didn't get touched, they could lose 30 LD and nothing would change as they don't lose combat they win it, Besides with the Grail Relique (which is tanky like crazy) around they still high leadership.

The Man-at-arms nerf is the only real nerf, though who uses them? when you got battle pilgrims and food squires

Questing knights -8 Charge Damage, umm its their prolong fighting power and monster killing power that should be nerfed not charge damage.

At least i can still dodge people who select brets until they get fixed.

Im sorry but pilgrims are only really good against wood elves because they are flags with shields, GS eat them alive and empire, beastmen, chaos etc etc dont really have any struggles with them. For a 600 cost unit they dont overperform drasticly. The foot squire nerf might have been too much.... i would rather they have lost 3 damage then lost 10 LD as right now they might not even be worth 700 because they require a grail relique to even function as a main line unit.

-8 Charge Bonus is a huge nerf to any unit regarless if cav or infantry and the fact that you make it out be be some kind of joke shows that you clearly dont know how stats work. The questing knights might still be too good because of their Damage and stats but right now -8 charge seems like a solid nerf. as they will also lose 8 damage on the charge for every model in the unit so with spaghetti lines that means the first and second rank is gonna lose about 160 damage on the charge and 160 for the 2nd strike in combat. 360 damage decrease on the charge is a rather big deal.

I must admit with the way you explained the Charge Bonus i did not know that, so i stand corrected thinking it was nothing, still though their charge was not the thing that made them too strong by the way is there anywhere to view how certain stats work, apart from the basic description.

I've tested them a bit now, and they still seem a bit too powerful for their price. They are only going to be fighting infantry, as brett have enough cav to engage enemy cav, so their bonus vs. infantry is just .. too good. They're squires. Not knights. When fighting against something like chaos warriors, or even great swords, they should just get pummeled. When fighting swordsmen or orc boys, they should do quite well.

They should either lose armour piercing or bonus vs. infantry and have melee defence bonus.

hendo1592

I will be testing later tonight! Balancing isn't easy and I'm sure takes a lot of time to make sure all "pieces fit." (It's why an alternate balance for battles is taking time ).

I'm hoping squires aren't useless against anything outside of low tier units. TBH im confused with all the "outrage" against foot troops. When they win their "match ups" (I rarely fight one on one, so it's mostly a group effort-as TW it should) I take heavy losses in most cases or at least more than I would with other races, and in campaign that's important-it's not just about one battle, it's about the bigger picture (this comes from someone who plays the majority of custom battles-half of time which has been spent testing in regards to prolonging battles.

Arthasmenethril

hendo1592 said:

I will be testing later tonight! Balancing isn't easy and I'm sure takes a lot of time to make sure all "pieces fit." (It's why an alternate balance for battles is taking time ).

I'm hoping squires aren't useless against anything outside of low tier units. TBH im confused with all the "outrage" against foot troops. When they win their "match ups" (I rarely fight one on one, so it's mostly a group effort-as TW it should) I take heavy losses in most cases or at least more than I would with other races, and in campaign that's important-it's not just about one battle, it's about the bigger picture (this comes from someone who plays the majority of custom battles-half of time which has been spent testing in regards to prolonging battles.

It's more of Bretonnia is meant to have rubbish infantry and a faction shouldn't require "Chosen" as a best bet against a Bretonnian infantry unit.