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Upgrading graphics card, need advice

RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
Current specs are;

i5 6600K @ 3.50 ghz
8 gigs ram
geforce 750 TI 2gb

I can run Total war Warhammer on 'max' settings, but the game looks so awful compared to many others I see posting online. I think my graphics card is shoe horning me, and ive been wanting to upgrade for awhile. Its been a stellar card; the 750 TI has let me play games like the new doom, and many, many other great new titles and can keep up with them. But I need a new card, and I'm wondering if a GTX 1060 6gb would be worth the investment? I don't have 500 dollars to spend on a card, but I can scrounge up 350-400, and sell my old 750 for about 100 bucks in Canada...

any suggestions would be great, as I'm looking to run TTW II on max settings. Thanks!

Comments

  • ral13ral13 Member Posts: 85Registered Users
    I'm guessing that you're running out of vram on your 750 ti so it is downgrading your graphics automatically. You could turn unlimited video memory on in the advanced settings but your performance would drop tremendously.

    I have the 1060 6GB with a 6600k at 4.1 GHz and on TWW I am mostly gpu limited unless there are lots of units/men on the field. Also bear in mind that I have some settings turned down a little from ultra to avoid any major drops from 60 fps at 1080p (which I am also assuming is your resolution) but most are on ultra. So I would recommend waiting for the next generation of gpus from amd and nvidia (my guess is that they will be releasing at a similar time to TWW2) if your sole objective is the best performance for the money in TWW2. But if you want to be playing TWW at near max settings right now then the 1060 6GB/AMD RX 480 is a very good option.

    Another reason to wait is to also see if they do any more tweaking to the way the game performs from TWW to TWW2.
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
    edited April 3
    ral13 said:

    I'm guessing that you're running out of vram on your 750 ti so it is downgrading your graphics automatically. You could turn unlimited video memory on in the advanced settings but your performance would drop tremendously.

    I have the 1060 6GB with a 6600k at 4.1 GHz and on TWW I am mostly gpu limited unless there are lots of units/men on the field. Also bear in mind that I have some settings turned down a little from ultra to avoid any major drops from 60 fps at 1080p (which I am also assuming is your resolution) but most are on ultra. So I would recommend waiting for the next generation of gpus from amd and nvidia (my guess is that they will be releasing at a similar time to TWW2) if your sole objective is the best performance for the money in TWW2. But if you want to be playing TWW at near max settings right now then the 1060 6GB/AMD RX 480 is a very good option.

    Another reason to wait is to also see if they do any more tweaking to the way the game performs from TWW to TWW2.

    You are spot on with the video ram. As it is, I can have it set to high settings with unlitmited Vram on, but this will also adjust graphics to medium at times to compensate...as it seems to 'forget' that use unlimited Vram has been clicked.

    My resolution is the same as yours. I'm sort of torn, as I play other games as well that don't really need such an intense graphics card to run ok. Heck I can play fallout 4 on high graphics for the most part, and I play doom (2016) on medium-high settings with no real FPS drops either. So I'm also thinking about other games as well. By the sounds of what your saying, I could probably pull off max graphics with a 1060 6GB now, but TTW2 may be more...which is possible, but I think the maps will all be joined together in one big campaign, so I agree they may tweak the graphics a little but I cant see them overhauling the engine or anything crazy.

    Total war games are always so demanding man...but so worth it. Do you know when the next gen of Geforce is coming out? I cant seem to find much info on it.

  • ral13ral13 Member Posts: 85Registered Users
    From what I understand regarding nvidia cards, the next gen (I guess the 11 series) will be a refresh of the current architecture (pascal) which I think is the same sort of thing going from the 700 series to the 900 series. The 700 series was released in May 2013 and the 900 series in september 2014, so considering the 10 series was released in May 2016 I think it would be a reasonable estimate that the 11 series will be released end of q3 or q4 of this year.

    Also the fact amd keep teasing their vega cards means that if they come out before the 11 series it will almost undoubtedly shake up the nvidia prices if you're set on an nvidia card. And obviously also if you're happy with amd they may end up performing really well for the money if amd partner creative assembly like they did for TWW.

    Like you say regarding TWW2 it seems like they probably won't change very much but the fact we don't know at this point it seems safer to wait. Another thing I was also considering was that Attila was kind of a refresh of Rome II but Attila ended up being way more demanding than Rome II.

    Obviously it is up to you but it sounds like you're reasonably happy with how the games you have at the moment are running so it just seems to make a little more sense to me to wait it out at least a little longer.
  • doinwork34doinwork34 Technical Moderator Colorado, USPosts: 2,842Registered Users, Moderators, Tech Moderators
    I have a gtx 760 with 4GB of vram and It works surprisngly well. Like you, I am able to play on max settings (of course, my fps is only in the 20/30s.) But I simply lower those settings to a mix of high and max and from there I can play even large battles at decent frames.

    When I am monitoring my vram usage, all 4gb of vram is used. So I can defintaly see the game thrttoling with only 2GB.


    As for which card you should go with, it depends on a few things.

    What resolution do you want to play at?
    Price range?
    Im assuming you want extreme detail...do you NEED 60fps? Or would you be willing to settle for 40-50?

    The good news is that this generation of cards all have atleast 6GB of vram so you shouldnt have to worry about that unless you are trying to play at 4k or eyefinity etc.


    assuming you want 1080p, extreme settings at 50-60 fps I think you should be good with a gtx 1060 or rx 480.
    Good to go for Rome II! CPU: i5 3570k @ 4.0ghz GPU: GTX 760 4gb @1215MHz-RAM: 8GB1600 Ballistix TracerPSU: Corsair HX750w
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,548Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    I would agree that waiting as long as you can stand it makes sense for two reasons.

    1)
    It is very probable that the new cards will come out around the same time as TWW2 or sooner, so you could get an '1160' or '580' for around the same pricepoint you would pay for the current equivalent cards NOW (more technology : same money) , or,

    2)
    Alternatively, you could get the older card (1060/480) as soon as the new ones' release dates are announced when their price is likely to be dropped to clear the decks for the new cards (less money : Same technology).


    Of course one can play the waiting game forever as new cards are always coming out and you could conceivably wait until you are dead which obviates the need for any expenditure at all...

    My rule of thumb on that is usually based on why I am thinking about an upgrade. If it is because a new game or iteration of a title is coming out, or that new title would be a key decision making factor, its release is the deadline I use to jump (give or take a few weeks in case a new card is going to release JUST after).

    If its NOT about any future game per se, but rather a realization I am not getting what I need I will usually see where I am in the release cycle because the two major video card developers are pretty predictable about how and when they are getting ready to move to the next phase. If I am still early, I will buy what there is now. If I am within a few months potentially of new series, or the Ti or the double amd card... I might wait.

    While Nvidia has owned the top of the performance market for some time, it has a vested interest in maintaining it, and is also sensitive to market share recovery by AMD. AMD on the other hand is usually a counter-puncher and has a tendency to be more innovative (because they have to be). This makes their offerings potentially more intriguing as they are usually a big flash of ... nothing - or, sometimes, a very significant change in the way the market share is moving for them (good or bad). Generally AMD can be relied on to release their new series sometime in the middle of Nvidia's series release OR after it is matured and before their next series is ready to release (like now).

    I agree on ral13's assumption about timing for the Nvidia release, but it could get pressed faster if AMD makes good on an earlier release date for the Vegas. Another way to know when Nvidia is done is when their 'x80' Ti comes out. This is the traditional Boss card that signals the series has gone as far as it is going to go, and Nvidia has to release a new series to be able to maintain performance ownership. The 1080 Ti was announced on or around the last couple of days of February this year and was first obtainable in early March. The first shortages have recently been overcome and trade up and other sorts of promo deals are starting to be prepared.

    This means the 10xx series is done unless there is a Titan update for it, but that would require a new board as the Ti board for this series IS the Titan board. Whatever Nvidia is planning, for what is next - it's new. Whatever it is, it isn't ready yet, and its performance over the current series is -annoyingly- probably going to be influenced by when and what AMD come up with for its Vegas card offerings.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
    good advice in here! thanks folks.

    What I'm going to do is Look around on kijiji for a gtx 980 TI. There are a few locally for sale, costing around 400 for a TI 6gb and 300-350 for the 4 GB version. Failing that, I can pick up the GTX 1060 6GB edition. Its about 350, but the 980 TI 6gb outperforms it by almost 20-30 percent, So I'm hoping I can get some respoinses from the local guys selling second hand. I'm guessing the 980 TI will keep me going for 2-3 years more, eventually getting to medium settings and having to change it up. A lot are online for sale at only a year old. Although I always worry it wont work and get ripped off....
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,548Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    Used is always a risk unless you get it from a known dealer who will warrant it is working - even then not much of a warranty is likely and 'working' is not always that meaningful either! :)

    Personally I never buy used, but - that's me. On my own station's system I just recently replaced a 570 and 580! (these were both on venerable Danger Den liquid blocks... and I hated to get rid of them so it is true I did drag my feet a bit... on the other hand I also have access should I need/want to a number of other machines with far more modern firepower).

    I wish you luck whatever you do, but I leave you with this...

    The CURRENT TWW application is using >4g of Vram, really approaching ~5g. Don't get a card with less than 6g if you can help it, and if you can get more, do it.

    TWW2's sysreqs and recommended aren't out yet nor is there likely to be much information on that for a while - but as I have said elsewhere, a tradition of the series has been that each successive title shows a bit more, pushes the envelope a bit more (for the systems that can take advantage of it). Those systems that were able to push the edge of the previous title are usually more than adequate to play the next title, but are just a step down from where they were... Maybe not all things need to be taken down a notch depending on how overpowered the system is, but usually there area a few steps back. Keep that in mind.

    On a 980 lasting... I have a son in the next room who is using a vanilla 980 and faces really no limitations on anything he is playing at this moment (on mainstream resolution). I would estimate at least two years before anything crosses the threshold of easily playable (if not all on maximum) on mainstream. The only challenge we THOUGHT we might see is Star Citizen, but - the change to Lumberyard and some recent epiphanies at Cloud Imperium have apparently found where the optimization buttons are. With a good CPU and ram, even a 970 plays that game in mainstream res very smoothly.

    Good luck and let us know what you ended up doing!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
    TBH I've never bought used before either, as I prefer the warranty and to know it wasn't overclocked and burned out. In the end though....

    I ended up finding a GTX 980 TI 6GB seahawk with the fan attached. Guy was upgrading to a 1080 something and was selling it for 350, tried to sell it for more but couldn't get any bites. He only bought it a year ago and I have the warranty from it still and everything. He said he overclocked it for a day or two, but found the gains so minimal he didn't bother and changed it back. I cant believe he bought it for 1000 bucks though...year later its already 500-600 used online. Really nice guy, I gotta install it still but he left instructions for install, his number and email if I need help. Nice guy, so here's hoping. I got a family member to pick it up as he lives in another city than me, but here's hoping....I'll let u all know how it works (if it works?) Wish me luck.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 3,815Registered Users
    I've had good luck with used both buying and selling. In fact I find it really difficult to pay full price now knowing I can get a better card for the same amount if I buy used. Maybe someday I will get burned but I figure all the times I've saved will still make getting burned once or twice the better option.

    Of course buying from some random 'good' deal isn't always the best. Craigslist can be ok but definitely inspect before handing over money. For GPU it can be difficult to tell sometimes but many components you can get an idea, I don't buy from smokers or people who don't have any accessories. Reddit, Amazon, and Ebay give somewhat curated lists of sellers but it can be difficult to get a good deal there simply due to that and the seller fees that jack up prices a bit.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,548Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    @Ichon,
    Interesting on the used bit... To me its simply a matter of impatience and reliability. I have little patience for non-optimally working parts - or worse, those that LOOK like they want to work optimally if I just do this or that to them, leading me down a garden path of time-wastage. I see (and or hear about on this forum in support), mostly problems, so I suppose I am always aware of what CAN happen. :)

    Basically, while I consider myself knowledgeable and resourceful when it comes to dealing with system and component problems - that does not translate to 'willfully willing to up my percentage chance of having either a fail or a time consuming annoyance' for the sake of a little bit of money.

    That of course may also be a matter of age : money being not in nearly as short a supply as is time. :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 3,815Registered Users
    The biggest components I buy used are GPU and CPU. I definitely don't recommend buying motherboards or hard drives used. They are more likely to have issues in my experience and you have to wonder why they are being sold in the first place.

    However many people are on a fast GPU upgrade cycle and just want to get some money back for their 1 generation from new GPU which is fine for me as I rarely find the top of the line GPU cost effective or necessary since games are optimized around GPU that are 2-3 years old since that is the 'average' user. GPU can have issues though most of those were associated with miners or early over clockers burning out their cards just short of dead. Now most of the over clocking tools that come with GPU protect the cards unless someone is being just stupid or pushing really hard (which type of people are rarely going to try to unload it onto someone else) so you really only have to worry about the people who tried overclocking without any idea what they are doing. Sure there are a few of those but the odds are low you get one who stopped just short of burning their card completely.

    CPU so long as you can inspect it is really hard to get a messed up one. Even slightly bent pins are rarely a problem and every CPU I've had in the last 10 years I've been able to sell pretty quickly.

    I have bought RAM used but I wouldn't recommend it for inexperienced people because it can be a GIANT time sink it you do have a bad stick.

    Used cases are usually ok, maybe a bad power button but personally I find it is one of the cheapest components anyway and its way better to buy a good case that you then use for several years swapping out components so only buy a used case if you are trying really hard to save money.

    Oh- I also wouldn't recommend buying water coolers used unless it is from a friend.

    Power supplies I've never tried to buy used, though I have bought refurbished but so long as it was a decent brand originally I can't see a huge reason not to try if its cheap (and it should be used!).
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,548Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited April 15
    Of the items you discuss, beside the mobo and drives, I would heartily recommend against a used PSU.

    While I don't feel like this is the place to launch into a long winded description of all the PSU variables involved, I will suggest I can see reasonable arguments for more expensive components - particularly where there is a certain level of rough handling resistance in the components (like self throttling).

    Brand new PSUs on the other hand, with a good warranty-brand are generally available for 50 to 60 dollars (and sometimes less) with more than sufficient 12V+ amperage plus good safety margins. Not enough dollars for the risk reward in my opinion for what that is worth if, like me, you are putting your money saved on a sliding scale with potential time wasted, or more insidiously, brown-out risk that may not be immediately evident.

    I do agree on the video card level of capability vis a vis the average release recommended requirements in that area. I generally have been of the opinion that second or third card from the top card of the top tier is where the best value generally is. This is for either major chip maker.

    Personally I except myself from most rational arguments about saving versus value (used or second/third tier cards etc) since as an old guy (well, I'm 57... I think - I always have to do the math to figure it out) time and predictability matter more to me than money. This is hardly exceptionally as it is often the case that the more money you have the less time you have... and of course vice versa. :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
    Well I got the 980ti installed and running. It brought my FPS up to 70-80 on ultra, so it's VERY smooth now!!

    Only issue I have is the game doesn't look like a lot of other people's ultra settings posted online. It looks fine and all, but still very rough edges and color seems kinda meh. It looks almost the same as my old 750ti looked on high, which is pretty surprising. Unlimited memory is clicked on, resolution 1920x1080, and everything is set to ultra/extreme. FPS is fine, but I'm thinking maybe people just have better monitors than me and are running at 4K or higher resolution.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 3,815Registered Users
    Better monitor can make a dif but so do mods and camera angle.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 62Registered Users
    What mods do you recommend? I can defInitely handle some now!
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 3,815Registered Users
    You might have to try a few before you get the ones you like;

    SweetFX/Reshade not in Warhammer workshop- shader mod for many games that doesn't always improve games in my opinion but it works pretty well for Warhammer TW

    Better Camera
    Olympian Campaign Camera
    UI Unit Markers
    Disable Buff Effects
    Better Border Colors
    Ghastly Ghouls (many unit reskins but this is my favorite since I always seem to end up fighting Vampires)
    State Troops Unit Cards Provincial Coloring
    Daelin's unit Resize Lore Friendly
    Cataphs Southern Realms
    Some of Dryrain's faction reskins are interesting looking
    Skip Intro Logo's
    Realistic Climate Battle Change
    Varied Zombies
    Chaos Cosmetics

    Glory mods for various factions are cool looking units but a bit unbalanced for campaign
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,548Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    I will say mods may be it, but there is no question that a superior panel type monitor running at higher resolution in the same size will also make a huge difference.

    My kids who all have more monitors and more modern monitors at that have such better looking pictures than my old workstation it's not funny. Of course higher frequency and better brands help as well, but with some of these monitors in my computer room we are talking about 8 or 9 year old monitors - and tech has definitely moved on.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
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