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Lizardmen Roster Extremely Un-Loreful Units

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  • CnConradCnConrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,163
    Gamgee said:

    is this a strawman? troll-post? I don't even...


    anyway, those units are nice, have entirely new mechanics, and they are free

    I really hope CA hardcodes these units into the game to prevent sour partypoopers from having fun, after trying to poop the party

    A strawman... post? You have no idea what a logical fallacy is do you, and you have no idea how to call a strawman fallacy if you seen one. I award you -10 points.

    The OP is giving an opinion. It is literally impossible for him to have a strawman argument in this case because he is making the topic of discussion.

    If anything you are the one closest to a logical fallacy yourself by committing an ad hominem attack. I think your post has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in years. So dumb it is worth calling out even if I get banned for it.
    Actually you are the one who is making yourself look foolish.

    It is very funny how you try to lecture using words you do not understand then use the the term dumbest to describe it. If you are going to throw around ad hominem and logical fallacies the least you could do is be a bit more articulate and say "the least intelligent"


    But back to your central complaint. In no way is it literally impossible to create a straw man argument in an opening post. Perhaps looking up literally and impossible would be a good starting point for you.

    Now let me suggest that you Google straw man.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=straw+man+argument&oq=strawman+ar&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0j5j0.5725j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

    The poster that you attacked was implying that the op was creating this extreamly flawed argument as a manner of trolling the people who didn't like the new units. Thus allowing people who were satisfied to successfully argue against it.

    Whether this is true or not doesn't matter, the person you attacked was pointing out how foolish the Op's point was and suggesting that it could not actually be legitimate.
  • Lord_NathanaelLord_Nathanael Registered Users Posts: 1,496
    Gamgee said:

    is this a strawman? troll-post? I don't even...


    anyway, those units are nice, have entirely new mechanics, and they are free

    I really hope CA hardcodes these units into the game to prevent sour partypoopers from having fun, after trying to poop the party

    A strawman... post? You have no idea what a logical fallacy is do you, and you have no idea how to call a strawman fallacy if you seen one. I award you -10 points.

    The OP is giving an opinion. It is literally impossible for him to have a strawman argument in this case because he is making the topic of discussion.

    If anything you are the one closest to a logical fallacy yourself by committing an ad hominem attack. I think your post has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in years. So dumb it is worth calling out even if I get banned for it.
    you try to argue logical fallacies on an international gaming forum between language barriers and thus semantics? sure lets do, but that could take a while and fill the next 4 or so pages up XD

    actually, no, lets not do that, given that my post was short, and based on my wording I could pull a couple arguments out of my backside stating what I actually ment with "is this a strawman?"

    tbh, I was just perplexed at OPs premisse, being that feral dinosaur units be "un-loreful" because they don't exist as models. this is true, but its consent that those units exist in the lore, and also that they are GW approved.
    I wasn't initially sure if the OP was serious about this and maybe even started the thread with a weak argument in order to tear it down with something else linked to it.

    example: someone goes to a left wing political forums, where people have long discussions about various topics such as safety, welfare, class divisions ect.
    then comes a guy and says: we need to get rid of liberalism and globalism, because its the root of all evil!
    is he now a troll or another left winger funnily pretending to be rightwinger to make fun of rightwingers?

    there, done


    feel free to point out my errors, I'd like to improve my english
  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 3,708
    edited May 2017
    Monster packs of all kinds were part of Warhammer 3rd edition. You could have literally anything as a feral monster in 3e.

    So, yes, these are loreful, even if not supported in the most recent versions of the table top game.

    Also, CA may be taking an approach where monster handlers are not shown, but are assumed to be there for lore purposes.
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,912
    edited May 2017
    MrJade said:

    Gamgee said:

    A strawman... post? You have no idea what a logical fallacy is do you, and you have no idea how to call a strawman fallacy if you seen one. I award you -10 points.

    The OP is giving an opinion. It is literally impossible for him to have a strawman argument in this case because he is making the topic of discussion.

    If anything you are the one closest to a logical fallacy yourself by committing an ad hominem attack. I think your post has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in years. So dumb it is worth calling out even if I get banned for it.

    This isn't entirely accurate. You could certainly make a strawman fallacy when starting discussion. If the OP had said, "The Feral units aren't fluff-accurate and I've heard that some of you hear like it because it is fun and you hate the lore!" That would be a strawman unless OP could cite someone who said that.

    Also, he didn't really ad hominem either, he just implied that the post is a troll. He's being a jerk, but no fallacies have been committed here.
    Oh you definitely can, but I figured I should have some brevity to my post or else I could go way off tangent with a huge post. I would argue he did. The OP was not a troll poster. A troll is negative and derogatory term even if not a severe one. No one wants to be called a troll. The OP was just sharing his opinion and the first thing someone does is call him a troll. I suppose you could argue on the fact that the name caller was not specifically stating that because he was a troll his post should be ignored and on a technicality you could make a case out of that if your the lawyer sort.

    However the actions of the poster itself are the most damning piece of evidence to show what his real intent was. He dismissed the poster despite not legally and logically stating that because he thinks the op is a troll his argument holds no merit.
  • SherShahSuriSherShahSuri Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,109
    Heresy... this is Total War!!!!!!!!!! BEGONE!
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,912
    MrJade said:

    Gamgee said:

    A strawman... post? You have no idea what a logical fallacy is do you, and you have no idea how to call a strawman fallacy if you seen one. I award you -10 points.

    The OP is giving an opinion. It is literally impossible for him to have a strawman argument in this case because he is making the topic of discussion.

    If anything you are the one closest to a logical fallacy yourself by committing an ad hominem attack. I think your post has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in years. So dumb it is worth calling out even if I get banned for it.

    This isn't entirely accurate. You could certainly make a strawman fallacy when starting discussion. If the OP had said, "The Feral units aren't fluff-accurate and I've heard that some of you hear like it because it is fun and you hate the lore!" That would be a strawman unless OP could cite someone who said that.

    Also, he didn't really ad hominem either, he just implied that the post is a troll. He's being a jerk, but no fallacies have been committed here.
    You are correct on the first count. You can make a logical fallacy in an OP. However in this case he didn't. For brevity sake I felt I didn't want too long of a post going into the details.

    I suppose if you were feeling like a lawyer you could argue on a technicality that he did not in fact ad hominem when he called him a troll. However a troll is a derogatory term and all the OP did was state his opinion and some basic reasons for why. Then the first poster calls him out as a troll post and doesn't even consider his opinion. Now you could win make a case on a technicality; that the name caller did not specifically state that the OP should be ignored for being a troll.

    However his own follow up actions prove his intent. He did not engage in any meaningful discussion with the OP despite disagreeing with him. Instead his first action was to escalate the situation and all him a troll. His second was to leave and give no chance for discussion. Furthermore if he did not think of him a troll then why post that at all and then leave in anger? I know motivations are only anecdotal evidence, but in this case it can help guide the rest of the discussion and thoughts. Still his actions are the most damning thing proving his intent.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165
    endur said:

    So, yes, these are loreful, even if not supported in the most recent versions of the table top game.

    But they are! Storm of Magic. Or something. I didn't/don't play WHFB.
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387
    edited May 2017
    and that's a flag... because feral dinosaurs are awesome.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • JastallJastall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,135
    They're probably here to give the Lizzies lower-tier dinosaur units, so that you can use the cool stuff before the campaign is pretty much over.

    And anyways, sending packs of ravenous T-rex into my enemies sounds too fun to pass up. It's not like Warhammer has ever tried to be realistic or even make sense anyway.
  • GreyKnightDantesGreyKnightDantes Registered Users Posts: 253
    edited May 2017
    people here are getting mad over the idea of Feral Dinosaurs having no handler yet have no explanation or reason to questhion why Jungle Swarm don't have handlers either....

    They are, in essence, mini dinosaur hordes....


    ==========================================================================================
    When you are trying hard not to burn people but you smell heresy in the air...


  • KopeshKopesh Member Registered Users Posts: 543
    I will have to try a complete army with only feral creatures. It's going to be great! :)
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,912
    MrJade said:

    Gamgee said:

    A strawman... post? You have no idea what a logical fallacy is do you, and you have no idea how to call a strawman fallacy if you seen one. I award you -10 points.

    The OP is giving an opinion. It is literally impossible for him to have a strawman argument in this case because he is making the topic of discussion.

    If anything you are the one closest to a logical fallacy yourself by committing an ad hominem attack. I think your post has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in years. So dumb it is worth calling out even if I get banned for it.

    This isn't entirely accurate. You could certainly make a strawman fallacy when starting discussion. If the OP had said, "The Feral units aren't fluff-accurate and I've heard that some of you hear like it because it is fun and you hate the lore!" That would be a strawman unless OP could cite someone who said that.

    Also, he didn't really ad hominem either, he just implied that the post is a troll. He's being a jerk, but no fallacies have been committed here.
    You are correct on the first count. You can make a logical fallacy in an OP. However in this case he didn't. For brevity sake I felt I didn't want too long of a post going into the details.

    I suppose if you were feeling like a lawyer you could argue on a technicality that he did not in fact ad hominem when he called him a troll. However a troll is a derogatory term and all the OP did was state his opinion and some basic reasons for why. Then the first poster calls him out as a troll post and doesn't even consider his opinion. Now you could win make a case on a technicality; that the name caller did not specifically state that the OP should be ignored for being a troll.

    However his own follow up actions prove his intent. He did not engage in any meaningful discussion with the OP despite disagreeing with him. Instead his first action was to escalate the situation and all him a troll. His second was to leave and give no chance for discussion. calling him a troll. Furthermore if he did not think of him a troll then why post that at all and then leave in anger? I know motivations are only anecdotal evidence, but in this case it can help guide the rest of the discussion and thoughts. Still his actions are the most damning thing proving his intent.
  • CintegoCintego Registered Users Posts: 192

    The title is quite the exercise in hyperbole.

    Considering these units are all mounts, I don't know how you say it's "extremely unloreful". They do exist. Extremely unloreful in my mind would be something made up that doesn't even fit, like Battle Rabbits or something, lol.

    Maybe the word feral is throwing everyone off but to me "feral" units have always felt more like "slight trained" monsters. Not paired with a rider and wouldn't let anyone ride it but trained enough to be sent in the direction of the enemy to munch on them.

    Personally I'm glad Lizardmen are not limited to only mounts for monsters.

    BATTLE RABBITS! IN THE HALFLINGS WILL RIDE THEM
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,643
    Cintego said:

    The title is quite the exercise in hyperbole.

    Considering these units are all mounts, I don't know how you say it's "extremely unloreful". They do exist. Extremely unloreful in my mind would be something made up that doesn't even fit, like Battle Rabbits or something, lol.

    Maybe the word feral is throwing everyone off but to me "feral" units have always felt more like "slight trained" monsters. Not paired with a rider and wouldn't let anyone ride it but trained enough to be sent in the direction of the enemy to munch on them.

    Personally I'm glad Lizardmen are not limited to only mounts for monsters.

    BATTLE RABBITS! IN THE HALFLINGS WILL RIDE THEM
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • TherenTheren Registered Users Posts: 296
    I want to be positive.
    In the end the entire jungle of lustria is basically a gigant anty chaos minefield, and every creature, disease, bug, swamp and man eating busch in there is just an other weapon against the demons and warm blooded thieves.

    We realy don't know how these "feral" thing will work. I hope they will be more like living canonballs, and with the rampaging element, yeah it will surely kill your units too. And? If i can see from far when a carnosaur and a bastilodon just killing each other, and unwillingly stomp to the ground the elven lines may that all is worthe it.
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    From what they said in the stream it really doesn't sound like they'll attack friendlies, just bumrush the closest enemy unit and also it seems like it can trigger before any melee takes place which is important.

    It seems like at least against the AI it's going to be very effective to just toss feral beasts at them.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • TheHolyPilgrimTheHolyPilgrim Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 453
    Yeah, the feral mechanic sounds like an improved, if not just different, implementation of the "Impetuous" trait from Medieval II where your troops might charge without orders from you (though I didn't see that happening all too often).

    In that case, that's all fine with me. Gimme rampaging dinos. Who am I to deny the Great Ones plan?
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,121

    Yeah, the feral mechanic sounds like an improved, if not just different, implementation of the "Impetuous" trait from Medieval II where your troops might charge without orders from you (though I didn't see that happening all too often).

    In that case, that's all fine with me. Gimme rampaging dinos. Who am I to deny the Great Ones plan?

    in MTW2 that trait did only make uint more unresponsive to orders not that they will not respond at all to your orders as it seems LM units will do

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
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