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sore losers always trying to get Draws

mofogiemofogie Posts: 2Registered Users
edited May 19 in Multiplayer Area
i would strongly advise taking measures against people who stall to the timer to try to get a draw. i'm sure you've all seen it... a guy with cavalry or air cavalry that can't defeat the remaining forces just running around...

look at this ****.... Thi guy makes a fail composition, then runs around all game, i finally manage to route his whole army, and the green knight escapes with 117 hp!

or how bout this BS.... Another guy keeps a mounted yeoman alive and his team's two lords stall till the end...

i have many more, but i think this suffices. the current system empowers these jerks... and there's alot of these jerks.

I think a very effective and easy solution: the power bar can break ties at the end of the timer, especially if it's an overwhelming power bar, like for example, you have 75% yellow in your bar. This would pressure the stallers to make a move or lose.
Post edited by BillyRuffian on

Comments

  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 812Registered Users
    multiplayer doesn't sound fun....
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Posts: 222Registered Users
    Haven't even played 1 second of this game but I know how annoying being denied victory is
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,536Registered Users
    KGpoopy said:

    multiplayer doesn't sound fun....

    It's fun when people don't do this. MP is not in a good state but it's getting better.
  • TheokolesOfRomeTheokolesOfRome Senior Member The Highlands in me kilt.Posts: 1,260Registered Users
    Best solution is capture points.

    Worked great in Shogun 2.

    If your opponent wouldn't face you or would camp etc - you just captured all the dojos - a timer would start counting down - and when it hit 0 - your opponent lost the match.

    No reason for it not to implemented.
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/brightbluejacket1
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  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Posts: 222Registered Users
    @TheokolesOfRome sorry if I'm being rude but are you a youtuber
  • iamtherealrazieliamtherealraziel Posts: 185Registered Users
    Let's look at this from the others perspective for a second. We see the world a lot better when we have multiple points of view. It sounds like you are not bringing balanced lists. Every race has something that's suppose to counter something else the opponent is bringing. Just a quick disclaimer to follow the previous statement yes there are balance issue and that will lead to unavoidable scenarios sometimes but for the most part that's less of an issue than user error. What I can glean from your comments about your list is either you are not building appropriately for the occasion or are not employing the appropriate tactics. Mounted yeomen are going to route once enough damage is done to their army and flyer must then fight or lose. I'm going to assume you're a dwarf player as most draws in my experience involve them. I'd then wager that you do not take gyrocopters. Gyrocopter are the dwarfs answer to uncatchable crap
  • ODM_EmptythoughtODM_Emptythought France, ParisPosts: 559Registered Users
    edited May 19

    Let's look at this from the others perspective for a second. We see the world a lot better when we have multiple points of view. It sounds like you are not bringing balanced lists. Every race has something that's suppose to counter something else the opponent is bringing. Just a quick disclaimer to follow the previous statement yes there are balance issue and that will lead to unavoidable scenarios sometimes but for the most part that's less of an issue than user error. What I can glean from your comments about your list is either you are not building appropriately for the occasion or are not employing the appropriate tactics. Mounted yeomen are going to route once enough damage is done to their army and flyer must then fight or lose. I'm going to assume you're a dwarf player as most draws in my experience involve them. I'd then wager that you do not take gyrocopters. Gyrocopter are the dwarfs answer to uncatchable crap


    Gyrocopter are useless against most factions as they get destroyed by flying units.
    The problem here is that at the end of the battle when your artillery or/and ranged units are dead, some opponents decide to withdraw their cavalry and flying lord and flee forever which the dwarf can't stop as he doesn't have fast units.

    The other player can also decide to cycle-charge with his lord which the dwarf can't do **** against.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I live in France.... I like animes, mangas, greek/egyptian and roman culture (antiquity + mythology). I usually play Total Warhammer or Battlefleet Gothic and sometimes Vermintide.
    I play almost exclusively MP though 1 or 2 campaigns from time to time can't hurt ;).

  • iamtherealrazieliamtherealraziel Posts: 185Registered Users
    Gyrocopters work vs everybody, and given I was right about my previous guesses I'm going to make a few more assumptions. Instead of researching your gyro's for end of game you send them out immediately to harass/die and or don't ever bother with them. Guard them with thunderers or quarrelers and sit in them to avoid this exact scenario as described by you. They are designed to be fast very fast, even the bombers have like 90 ms. Treat them like light cavalry.
  • TheokolesOfRomeTheokolesOfRome Senior Member The Highlands in me kilt.Posts: 1,260Registered Users

    @TheokolesOfRome sorry if I'm being rude but are you a youtuber

    I play Total War and sometimes upload to youtube.
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/brightbluejacket1
    Watch if you like high quality, edited and cinematic videos with informed content.
    My Rig:
    i7 4790k @ 4ghz
    1 x Titan X Pascal
    16GB 2400Mhz Ram
    1TB SSD Drive
    34" Curved Monitor 3440x1440p
  • ODM_EmptythoughtODM_Emptythought France, ParisPosts: 559Registered Users
    edited May 20

    Gyrocopters work vs everybody, and given I was right about my previous guesses I'm going to make a few more assumptions. Instead of researching your gyro's for end of game you send them out immediately to harass/die and or don't ever bother with them. Guard them with thunderers or quarrelers and sit in them to avoid this exact scenario as described by you. They are designed to be fast very fast, even the bombers have like 90 ms. Treat them like light cavalry.

    So much bs I can't stop laughing. It works vs AI but not vs a good player, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
    Gyros only work vs beastmen (harpies are too slow though they are cheap so it's 50/50), it also works a bit vs orcs and chaos but only if your opponent doesn't have enough flyers or foe-seeker/speed potion.
    In all the cases I mentioned these factions have chariots + cav and most of their units excel at pulling through (especially gorebulls) so it doesn't really matter.
    Worse, if (as you said) you sit with your gyro close to your thunderers, what's the point in bringing it ? At some point the other player will come with his flyers + cav/chariots/large units/summonings and will stop both your gyros and your ranged units.

    Moreover the fact that you mentionned the quarrelers instead of the rangers w/axes to defend your gyros shows that you didn't really try these kind of tactics against players.
    It might work against a few bad players but not against someone with a clue of what the usual dwarf tactics are.

    Instead of bringing gyros you could bring an additionnal runesmith or thunderer/slayer/2rangers etc.... and do a much better work with them. Against bretonnia for example it's better for you to stick with rangers/thunderers and dwarf warriors to stop cav in the back/slayers for pegasii. Your gyro will either keep being chased when he's about to fire (so won't fire) or will be destroyed by pegasii (who are faster than you, especially if it's a hero/lord with foe-seeker/potion).


    And if you try to keep a unit for the end-game as you said it's -800 per gyro for your whole army. Meaning that in the best case where your gyro hasn't been destroyed (extremely unlikely) your main army is weaker than your opponent's and you'll probably lose the battle. In the worst case you've just wasted 800 gold per gyro that has been destroyed and you still lose.

    I advise you to train a bit in MP (lobby or ladder both are ok) and you'll get better.

    Have fun ;)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I live in France.... I like animes, mangas, greek/egyptian and roman culture (antiquity + mythology). I usually play Total Warhammer or Battlefleet Gothic and sometimes Vermintide.
    I play almost exclusively MP though 1 or 2 campaigns from time to time can't hurt ;).

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 399Registered Users
    I agree with the OP that there's no reliable army build that can outdo a committed draw-seeker. The MP win condition is just terribly designed right now. Building an army around a draw condition will weaken you against the actual enemy army you should otherwise be building your army against. If someone wants to build a draw-focused army it's always going to be easy for them to do that.

    Even worse, people who aren't intending to seek out draws can still feel justified in playing for one after a close fight if they happen to have the last cav unit left, because that's literally the rules of the game.

    They should enact a simple 20 minute center-field control marker for the win after time runs out, but in the meantime there's only social norms preventing draw-seeking.
  • iamtherealrazieliamtherealraziel Posts: 185Registered Users
    You'll continue to suffer from a problem I've already solved because you don't listen to answers you don't like. I do not have a slew of people forcing draws on me because I do not let them. I'm happy to demonstrate to you how this all works but I doubt you'd change your view no matter what the evidence.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Posts: 2,536Registered Users

    You'll continue to suffer from a problem I've already solved because you don't listen to answers you don't like. I do not have a slew of people forcing draws on me because I do not let them. I'm happy to demonstrate to you how this all works but I doubt you'd change your view no matter what the evidence.

    Are you the new Dandy?
  • ODM_EmptythoughtODM_Emptythought France, ParisPosts: 559Registered Users

    You'll continue to suffer from a problem I've already solved because you don't listen to answers you don't like. I do not have a slew of people forcing draws on me because I do not let them. I'm happy to demonstrate to you how this all works but I doubt you'd change your view no matter what the evidence.

    Are you the new Dandy?
    There can only be one dandy.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I live in France.... I like animes, mangas, greek/egyptian and roman culture (antiquity + mythology). I usually play Total Warhammer or Battlefleet Gothic and sometimes Vermintide.
    I play almost exclusively MP though 1 or 2 campaigns from time to time can't hurt ;).

  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 1,036Registered Users
    Needs less sentence structure and more screenshots.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited 3:28AM
    As someone who has draw kited multiple times, I 100% agree with the OP.

    I don't deliberately plan to draw kite from the get-go, but yeah, if I start losing, and still have my wight king squad alive, I usually go for the draw. IF I'm successful in originally getting my leadership disengaged from the fight, the KITING part almost always works. It's a very difficult strategy to stop; with the original retreat being the most dangerous part.

    iamtherealraziel: Bringing "anti-draw" units hardly ever works, because most people (such as myself) who go for a draw, only do it after the battle has been raging for awhile. This means that any units which could have killed the draw-kiting units are dead. Or they are in such a weak condition that even if they could catch the draw-kiters (usually Wight Kings for me) they couldn't actually beat them in a fight nor could they pin them down long enough for infantry/missile units to arrive.

    As an additional suggestion, I think CA needs to treat the causes, rather than just the symptoms when it comes to draw-kiting. Specifically, the incredibly disproportionate point values added for a win versus deducted for a loss. This is mainly an issue after your rank has been weighted by a large number of matches, but still, it's a problem. In closely packed groups, it is frustrating to only go up 2-5 ranks for every win, but dropping 50+ ranks for a single loss. If the rank drop for a loss was less severe, I honestly wouldn't feel the need to draw kite in the first place.
  • ODM_EmptythoughtODM_Emptythought France, ParisPosts: 559Registered Users
    It's a shame you feel the need to draw kite...... If you're good enough you should be able to compensate your loses with your wins (it's usually 8 to 11 wins for 1 defeat when you are very high). It's not that hard honestly. If you tryhard you can usually achieve 20 wins in a streak.......

    Please don't waste people's time by draw kiting. And if they deserve their win let them win. I would understand if you would just draw kite when people cheese though (like slayer spam/giant spam vs vampire/ steam tank spam etc.....).
    And please, oh please don't call draw kiting a strategy, it gives credit to it.....
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I live in France.... I like animes, mangas, greek/egyptian and roman culture (antiquity + mythology). I usually play Total Warhammer or Battlefleet Gothic and sometimes Vermintide.
    I play almost exclusively MP though 1 or 2 campaigns from time to time can't hurt ;).