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Will Dark Elves have slave soldiers from other factions?

JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387
i figured that since those guys practice slavery that they'd be able to "hire" slaves to fight for them.
if not slave soldiers, will they have any other kinds of slavery mechanic, as in an economic use or something?
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  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,132
    edited June 2017
    No such thing exists in their tabletop roster or their 8th Edition Lore. Nor do I feel that they require units from other races beyond Harpies - that's the chaff.

    As for an economic mechanic? It was said in an early interview that their campaign would revolve around raiding and sacking, so I would expect it to be present in some form too. :)
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387
    i know they don't have slave soldiers on the table top, it was just an idea i got, and thought that just maybe they'd have a mechanic like that... like maybe when they defeat an enemy lord, they'd be able to enslave a unit of choice after the battle, and then use them for his own army for a limited amount of turns (or until they die or get dismissed for all i care).

    it would have to be balanced out so a Dark Elf LL wouldn't just be able to outright steal other factions monsters (like giants) but otherwise i think it would be an interesting mechanic.. and when all things are considered, CA themselves said they want to make every race's playstyle unique, and the slavery mechanic i'm speaking of is something we haven't seen before, and would probably not feel too unfriendly to their lore once put to the test.

    maybe there could be some kind of drawback to having too many slave soldiers.. perhaps they'd rebel/start infighting if you enslaved too many, or something like that.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 872
    I imagine a slave chaff unit would fit in pretty well, similar to skaven slaves. Any thing more I wouldn't count on, DE don't seem like they would trust slaves with any functioning weapons.

    I would like to see ork slave units in the chaos dwarf army list though.
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    I imagine a slave chaff unit would fit in pretty well, similar to skaven slaves. Any thing more I wouldn't count on, DE don't seem like they would trust slaves with any functioning weapons.

    I would like to see ork slave units in the chaos dwarf army list though.

    of course not :dizzy: i assume they'd give them basic weaponry and use them as cannon fodder.. because hey.. they're just lowly slaves, we can get more.
  • BaronRodneyBaronRodney Registered Users Posts: 837
    Perhaps the ability to capture units after a battle but not have them replenish.

    It's a slippery slope into the realms of detracting from their own roster though.
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    Perhaps the ability to capture units after a battle but not have them replenish.

    It's a slippery slope into the realms of detracting from their own roster though.

    well as long as that didn't happen, i assume it could be a cool mechanic.
    i love the idea of the no-replenishment-rule as well. that would pretty much balance the whole thing out very well, as DE players wouldn't prioritize slave soldiers over their own in-roster DE soldiers.

    it would be more of a neat bonus that could come in handy as your units are depleting while in foreign territory.
    there would be pros and cons for sure, to having slave soldiers - particularly when you've got many of them.

    think of the Bretonnia peasantry mechanic, but slightly changed.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,359
    Highly doubt we will see specialied (race different) slave-units. Even if I really liked Malus Darkblades strategy involving "defetated" Dark Elves as expendable slave soldiers.



    But I do hope we will get some kind of slavery gameplay mechanic overall. Since Skaven and Chaos Dwarf society are also based on slavery principles, it should be there in some (building?) form.

    -----Red Dox
  • BiesBies Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,197
    Someone found a solution ?! :)






    "I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."









  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,900
    That list is silly - a lot of the 'slave units' there are things that have been mentioned in the lore to make bad slaves, certainly not slaves that the Dark Elves would dare give decent weapons to. High Elves in particular would rather die.

    There is, however, mention in the 8E lore of Dark Elves using greenskin and human slave warriors. You have to look in the books of other races (or earlier Dark Elf) books, though - they're not in the 8E Dark Elf book that I can find. I've raised the possibility of representing this ingame before, and a lot of Dark Elf fans were fiercely against the idea - they felt that it would be against the character of the Dark Elf army to have a cheap chaff unit.
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,132
    edited June 2017
    Draxynnic said:

    That list is silly - a lot of the 'slave units' there are things that have been mentioned in the lore to make bad slaves, certainly not slaves that the Dark Elves would dare give decent weapons to. High Elves in particular would rather die.

    There is, however, mention in the 8E lore of Dark Elves using greenskin and human slave warriors. You have to look in the books of other races (or earlier Dark Elf) books, though - they're not in the 8E Dark Elf book that I can find. I've raised the possibility of representing this ingame before, and a lot of Dark Elf fans were fiercely against the idea - they felt that it would be against the character of the Dark Elf army to have a cheap chaff unit.

    There's no mention of human slaves in the 8th Edition - that comes from two footnotes in 6th and 7th under conditions which no longer exist in 8th, and their use of Greenskins was as cat's paws. Not as units driven in front of their own or otherwise integrated into their armies.

    (It may well have been me arguing against you the last time, come to think of it. Just restating my position that the Dark Elves categorically do not need the other races to function, in that case.)
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,900
    The use of greenskins was ambiguous in the text, and at the very least they were brought to Naggaroth first.

    The 8E books also skip over a lot of detail that was in the previous books. It's unclear whether the event isn't mentioned in the 8E army book because it was explicitly retconned or just because they didn't feel it was important enough to leave in.

    Nevertheless, I didn't raise it to restart the argument - merely to observe that the idea has been raised, and quite a few people objected to it.
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,132
    Draxynnic said:

    The use of greenskins was ambiguous in the text, and at the very least they were brought to Naggaroth first.

    The 8E books also skip over a lot of detail that was in the previous books. It's unclear whether the event isn't mentioned in the 8E army book because it was explicitly retconned or just because they didn't feel it was important enough to leave in.

    Nevertheless, I didn't raise it to restart the argument - merely to observe that the idea has been raised, and quite a few people objected to it.

    Disagree on the clarity of the humans point, but completely fair to raise it. :)
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,760
    They won't unless it was a unit in the 8th edition. Which is what CA bases the army rosters on.
  • PaulHPaulH Registered Users Posts: 1,387
    The fact that they are looking into non-codex race packs means that they are expanding their scope to previous editions. Does this mean that Dark Elves will have slave units? No. Highly doubtful. But does it mean that they don't exist lorefully? No. Of course they do.
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,152

    They won't unless it was a unit in the 8th edition. Which is what CA bases the army rosters on.

    The 8th ed army books are the starting point but not a limit and non 8th ed stuff has appeared.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,867

    No such thing exists in their tabletop roster or their 8th Edition Lore. Nor do I feel that they require units from other races beyond Harpies - that's the chaff.

    As for an economic mechanic? It was said in an early interview that their campaign would revolve around raiding and sacking, so I would expect it to be present in some form too. :)

    The Dark Elves should have some kind of slavery mechanic, raiding and sacking alone is not so special.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Elves#Economy
  • KopeshKopesh Member Registered Users Posts: 542
    Slave units are not impossible. However, captured slaves are the workforce in Naggaroth. Dark Elves are mostly the rulers and warriors. Of course, slaves have other uses, such as blood sacrifices. So even if it is very atypical, slaves could perhaps be added as fodder units.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872
    CA have already stated they can draw on the more obscure stuff in the lore, not just 8E.


    That being said I am confident that we will not see a slave unit for DE. Slavery will no doubt be its mechanics for economy and maybe some other gimmicks.
  • AwesomeLionAwesomeLion Member Registered Users Posts: 1,223
    Not as army units, but we already know DE are going to have some sort of slave mechanic. I imagine this might be something simple like gaining reducing growth in a raided territory which also gives the DE "slave resources", which could either be a unique resource or just something that boosts DE growth
    Total War: Warhammer <3
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,867

    Not as army units, but we already know DE are going to have some sort of slave mechanic. I imagine this might be something simple like gaining reducing growth in a raided territory which also gives the DE "slave resources", which could either be a unique resource or just something that boosts DE growth

    It seems so, anyway CA is not stranger for slave mechanics, from ancient history's Total War Games.
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    Not as army units, but we already know DE are going to have some sort of slave mechanic. I imagine this might be something simple like gaining reducing growth in a raided territory which also gives the DE "slave resources", which could either be a unique resource or just something that boosts DE growth

    wow that sounds so exci-zzzZZzzzzZZzzz
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,656
    edited June 2017
    I would argue that Dark Elves getting disposable slaves as an actual unit would take away from Skaven/Chaos Dwarf game-play.

    Dark Elves don't need slave units to fill any role or holes in their army list. Keeping them as strictly economic benefits I would argue is actually more in line with DE lore. The slaves til the fields so the DE can sustain a military that can rival the other races despite their tiny comparative population.
    Post edited by Commissar_G on
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,692
    edited June 2017
    It's not a thing in the lore and hardly seem necessary, they have a large and interesting roster as is. They are based on having expensive elite and specialized units, not fodder infantry, and this would change the whole purpose and balancing of the faction.

    Using slaves from other factions on a battlefield just doesn't seem like something DE (or anyone else) would do, and it is more than enough that we are getting a pirate/raid focused faction to represent this part of their lore. I'm also pretty sure slavery was mentioned briefly in an interview as part of how factions will differ from each other on the campaign.
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  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872
    krunsh said:

    It's not a thing in the lore and hardly seem necessary, they have a large and interesting roster as is. They are based on having expensive elite and specialized units, not fodder infantry, and this would change the whole purpose and balancing of the faction.

    Using slaves from other factions on a battlefield just doesn't seem like something DE (or anyone else) would do, and it is more than enough that we are getting a pirate/raid focused faction to represent this part of their lore. I'm also pretty sure slavery was mentioned briefly in an interview as part of how factions will differ from each other on the campaign.

    I think only Chaos Dwarves are likely to use Orcs/Hobgoblins to fill their own roster.

    But I expect that will be Game 3 so loooong way off now.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,692
    Nemox said:

    krunsh said:

    It's not a thing in the lore and hardly seem necessary, they have a large and interesting roster as is. They are based on having expensive elite and specialized units, not fodder infantry, and this would change the whole purpose and balancing of the faction.

    Using slaves from other factions on a battlefield just doesn't seem like something DE (or anyone else) would do, and it is more than enough that we are getting a pirate/raid focused faction to represent this part of their lore. I'm also pretty sure slavery was mentioned briefly in an interview as part of how factions will differ from each other on the campaign.

    I think only Chaos Dwarves are likely to use Orcs/Hobgoblins to fill their own roster.

    But I expect that will be Game 3 so loooong way off now.
    Yes, and this isn't much of a slave mechanic as much as it is simply part of their army roster (Like skaven slaves are).
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  • GorvarGorvar Registered Users Posts: 109
    Red_Dox said:

    Highly doubt we will see specialied (race different) slave-units. Even if I really liked Malus Darkblades strategy involving "defetated" Dark Elves as expendable slave soldiers.




    But I do hope we will get some kind of slavery gameplay mechanic overall. Since Skaven and Chaos Dwarf society are also based on slavery principles, it should be there in some (building?) form.

    -----Red Dox
    Thanks for the post, I love the Mallus Darkblade comic book series.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,359
    Gorvar said:


    Thanks for the post, I love the Mallus Darkblade comic book series.

    Just a shame they never finished book#4 :(
    I still am curious how Malus part on the Ulthuan invasion would have ended. Despite the fact GW retconned "Stom of Chaos" later on. Afaik ended the novel series after comic book two, so nothing to gain on that front either *sigh*.

    ------Red Dox
  • UrgatUrgat Registered Users Posts: 996
    edited June 2017
    Heh. Every edition of Warhammer, someone brought the exact same question for the actual TT army actually.
    It never happened.
    DE slaves are goods to be sold, they're not to be released on a battlefield where at best they'll be "damaged" or killed, at worst, they'll turn on their masters. It did happen a few times in the lore though, but those are remarkable footnotes, not a regular practice. Iirc DE maim their slaves so they can't run, makes them inpropper for anything else but labour.
    I remember that one story where the DE fight a bretonnian army; just before the battle, the pointy ears "release" their slaves. Obviously the slaves run for their lives and try to reach the Brets lines. Just before they get out of range, the DE shoot them all, turning the ground into something impossible to manage for the Bretonnian cavalry. This being fluff written for the glory of the DE, I suppose it worked (the Brets could just, dunno, avoid the area where the dead bodies are - they were mostly cavalry, they could leisurely go around, or back away far enough to force the DE to move forward or give up, or any number of other possibilities, but heh).
    In any case, those slaves were used as difficult terrain, not combat units.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,898
    Two words: "Pls no."
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  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387
    Canuovea said:

    Two words: "Pls no."

    why do you say that like i am speaking heresy??
    slave soldiers wouldn't be that insanely lore unfriendly.
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