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STRAWPOLL: Should main faction names be changed from their race to their respective nation?

Ork_HistorianOrk_Historian Posts: 10Registered Users
edited July 2017 in General Discussion
This was posted on the Subreddit.

"Just curious what the community thinks"

Question


Should main faction names be changed from their race to their respective nation? (I.E. Empire faction name changed to Reikland, Greenskins to Broken Teeth etc.)


Answers

1.) Yes, but it should be a toggle-able option.


2.) Yes, it should be patched and done over.


3.) No, it should remain the same as is.



LINK: https://strawpoll.com/f3b395f

Post edited by Ork_Historian on
«13

Comments

  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,478Registered Users, Moderators
    I'd be interested in what the result would be if there was no middle ground, so ie, 2 or 3.
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  • Coldone666Coldone666 Posts: 620Registered Users
    They need to keep the name as Greenskins, Empire etc so the casuals no who is who. Only the people who are really into Warhammer would know about Reikland or Broken Tooth.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Posts: 3,905Registered Users
    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.
  • DolorousEddDolorousEdd Junior Member Posts: 555Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Team Dwarfs
    Team Bretonnia
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    Team Clan Pestilens
  • KrilralKrilral Member Posts: 910Registered Users

    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Yeah, this basically. Franz is the emperor of the entire empire, and if the other provinces think differently, it just makes them treasonous scum. I'd be okay with changing the names of the factions where it makes sense though, such as "Waaagh Grimgor" or something similar.

    And yeah, more toggles aren't always a good thing. Especially with minor things like this, where more options will just lead to cluttering. I wouldn't call it a "crap" poll like Krunch though. That's just needlessly rude, and to be fair, if the people want a toggle, then let them say they want a toggle.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,514Registered Users
    Krilral said:

    And yeah, more toggles aren't always a good thing. Especially with minor things like this, where more options will just lead to cluttering. I wouldn't call it a "crap" poll like Krunch though. That's just needlessly rude, and to be fair, if the people want a toggle, then let them say they want a toggle.

    Possibly a better approach would be to have a four options?

    1) Leave it as it is
    2) Have a toggle, but if that isn't practical, leave it as it is
    3) Have a toggle, but if that isn't practical, change the names
    4) Change the names

    This allows people who think a toggle is a good idea to say so while still making them get off the fence. B)

  • Donorma_IronshieldDonorma_Ironshield Posts: 383Registered Users
    I played with the Lorehammer mod that does this, and honestly; it really added to the atmosphere of the grand campaign. It sparked a lot of interest to learn more about the factions as well compared to generic names for me.

    I'm all for this becoming vanilla.
  • EizoEizo Posts: 1,006Registered Users
    I think the reason they use the generic name is to represent the armybook from Warhammer TT and that they need a baseline representation of the army list that every sub faction uses for MP and custom battle purposes.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,214Registered Users
    I wonder why this keeps coming up? It's about 239123123 on the list of things that need to be improved.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • JollyRogeroJollyRogero Member Posts: 668Registered Users
    I wish it were the case that you begin with a regional or faction name, but become the race name when you Confederate enough factions or take enough regions - for example, Reikland becomes The Empire once you have taken the historical boundaries of the Empire. There was a name change confederation ability in the past few total war titles, so they could do it if they wanted to.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,242Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    They should not be changed, for the simple reason that they already CAN be changed; they're called mods.

    The last thing we need for this game is to have "my" way be THE way, despite the fact that I can already have it my way through mods in the first place.
    The other thing is that I can always change my mind and want it changed from Empire to Reikland, and given mods I (and everyone else) can already make that choose whenever I want.

    The only people that have a problem with this, are the sort of people who want to be in total control of everyone else. Just because I like and use the mod to change Empire to Reikland, doesn't mean I should tell CA to make it "official".

    I wonder why this keeps coming up? It's about 239123123 on the list of things that need to be improved.

    It was also like, what, the second mod made for the game, after removing regional occupation?

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Senior Member Posts: 3,549Registered Users
    I'd really rather they don't change it. Especially for "The Empire". You are not Reikland, in my view. You are Karl Franz and his faction. He is Emperor even if that's not as powerful as it should be. He might also be the Elector Count of Reikland but he is (Prince and) Emperor.

    Which means he leads the Empire. The dwarfs, I'm not sure they have a name for their nation or not but if you are Thorgrim, you are high king which means you speak for your people I believe.

    Same for the new game. There should be a main Skaven faction called "Skaven" who represent the Council of 13, the ruling body of the Skaven Under-Empire. For High Elves, if you're Tyrion you should be "High Elves".

    Basically if the legendary lord you picked is the leader of the race, then I would say make their name be the race's name.

    The only really fuzzy area in the current game in my mind is the Vampire Counts.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Posts: 719Registered Users
    I personally would liked them patched in. It adds in a lot to the immersion.

    I can see a few arguements that I don't think make a tonne of sense. The first is that casual gamers won't understand. I don't think this is correct. When you click on a faction you are able to see which 'race' you are choosing and it's location, and if they really know nothing, the difference between empire and reikland means nothing and probably takes more lore explanation to know why you are playing as something called the empire with a controlled region with less than one province, instead of a nation with its own name.

    When people say the empire should stay the empire, I get the arguement but I don't agree. You aren't playing as the empire your playing as Karl Franz. He may be the emperor but the empire is closer to a collection of vassals under a single prince than a unified nation so that if you really wanted to be lore friendly, you should never take an empire province/or conferderate, unless you are reikland expanding its territory, you should only vassalise.

    This works the same as bretonnia, same as greenskins, same as dwarfs and everyone.

    If you really were playing as the emperor or undisputed king you would start in complete control of your races areas or in most cases with all subfactions as vassals except obvious ones like empire successionists. It's explained in all races lore that each subfaction within a race is very independent and autonomous even if they show allegiance to a single leader.

    When you play as Clan angrund, or couronne, you aren't playing as rebels.

    It also looks really silly when you look at the faction select or diplomacy screen and there are multiple factions within a race,but one is called the race.

    Though one arguement does make some sense, it can and has been modded in. I play with mods, but I also play with mods like steel faith to make the game lore friendly, and if there was a poll on making dragons powerhouses or staying the same, I would want the dragons updated. I would prefer a toggle as an option, so everyone wins, but if it was a straight yes or no. It's definitely yes.
  • UrgatUrgat Posts: 994Registered Users
    I vote yes, change name, and have your faction change names when they meet conditions, if applicable; for instance, you unit a percent of the provinces as Karl Franz? Reikland becomes the Empire (with pop up event, great fanfare music and a kiss from the cheerleaders. Throw in an achievement for the collectionists).
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    I personally would liked them patched in. It adds in a lot to the immersion.

    I can see a few arguements that I don't think make a tonne of sense. The first is that casual gamers won't understand. I don't think this is correct. When you click on a faction you are able to see which 'race' you are choosing and it's location, and if they really know nothing, the difference between empire and reikland means nothing and probably takes more lore explanation to know why you are playing as something called the empire with a controlled region with less than one province, instead of a nation with its own name.

    When people say the empire should stay the empire, I get the arguement but I don't agree. You aren't playing as the empire your playing as Karl Franz. He may be the emperor but the empire is closer to a collection of vassals under a single prince than a unified nation so that if you really wanted to be lore friendly, you should never take an empire province/or conferderate, unless you are reikland expanding its territory, you should only vassalise.

    This works the same as bretonnia, same as greenskins, same as dwarfs and everyone.

    If you really were playing as the emperor or undisputed king you would start in complete control of your races areas or in most cases with all subfactions as vassals except obvious ones like empire successionists. It's explained in all races lore that each subfaction within a race is very independent and autonomous even if they show allegiance to a single leader.

    When you play as Clan angrund, or couronne, you aren't playing as rebels.

    It also looks really silly when you look at the faction select or diplomacy screen and there are multiple factions within a race,but one is called the race.

    Though one arguement does make some sense, it can and has been modded in. I play with mods, but I also play with mods like steel faith to make the game lore friendly, and if there was a poll on making dragons powerhouses or staying the same, I would want the dragons updated. I would prefer a toggle as an option, so everyone wins, but if it was a straight yes or no. It's definitely yes.

    The Emperor is always ruler of the Empire. In this case Karl Franz is leading the Empire against a chaos threat, and the Elector counts are throwing tantrums. It has always been the case that the Emperor has to work with the Electors, and he can't just march an army in to take command because each state maintains its own force.

    But it doesn't change the fact Karl Franz IS the Emperor of the Empire. He is allowed to wave that banner and claim dominion. You do this by confederating (Hence why the Empire suffer a penalty unlike Bretonnia).

    Likewise, High King Thorgrimm does have the authority to represent the Dwarf race. That is his right as High King.

    Mannfred and Grimgor can be argued because they are egotistical warlords.

    It is not entirely accurate of course, but it isn't exactly a problem. If we really want to argue for immersion, then get that list out because there is a lot more that is a problem there...

    Mods work to allow people to tailor the names as they see fit. There is no need whatsoever for CA to change it.
  • MrDarth0MrDarth0 Junior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,257Registered Users
    I dont really care, but would have been nice if they made it right from the beginning.
  • bol14bol14 Senior Member USAPosts: 825Registered Users
    No. Not only is this utterly and completely pointless but its nice to just have the plain names. If you want the strange nation names, stick to the secondary factions. For people who are unfamiliar to warhammer (i.e. me) it is nice and organized to have the race name. Not only that but it helps connect the game to the tabletop.
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    The actual race names from TT should always be present in the game. If you want lore accurate name for everybody it takes less than a minute to find an appropriate mod and download it.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,082Registered Users

    I wish it were the case that you begin with a regional or faction name, but become the race name when you Confederate enough factions or take enough regions - for example, Reikland becomes The Empire once you have taken the historical boundaries of the Empire. There was a name change confederation ability in the past few total war titles, so they could do it if they wanted to.

    @JollyRogero
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=893737697&searchtext=confederation+rename

    this is what you want then

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • JollyRogeroJollyRogero Member Posts: 668Registered Users
    blaat said:

    I wish it were the case that you begin with a regional or faction name, but become the race name when you Confederate enough factions or take enough regions - for example, Reikland becomes The Empire once you have taken the historical boundaries of the Empire. There was a name change confederation ability in the past few total war titles, so they could do it if they wanted to.

    @JollyRogero
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=893737697&searchtext=confederation+rename

    this is what you want then
    That will do plenty well - thanks!
  • SchusselSchussel Posts: 747Registered Users
    No
    its good as it is.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,082Registered Users

    blaat said:

    I wish it were the case that you begin with a regional or faction name, but become the race name when you Confederate enough factions or take enough regions - for example, Reikland becomes The Empire once you have taken the historical boundaries of the Empire. There was a name change confederation ability in the past few total war titles, so they could do it if they wanted to.

    @JollyRogero
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=893737697&searchtext=confederation+rename

    this is what you want then
    That will do plenty well - thanks!
    just buy me a WH2 copy works a lot better then thanks :p

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,640Registered Users

    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Karl Franz is the Emperor in name only at the beginning of the Campaign, Karl Franz is in fact only the Elector Count of Reikland at the beginning of the Campaign, but in late game the name 'the Empire' is usually fitting, unless Karl Franz is about to lose. Main Faction names like "Dwarfs" and "Greenskins" are more ridiculous, it's like naming one of the Human Factions "Humans".
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Karl Franz is the Emperor in name only at the beginning of the Campaign, Karl Franz is in fact only the Elector Count of Reikland at the beginning of the Campaign, but in late game the name 'the Empire' is usually fitting, unless Karl Franz is about to lose. Main Faction names like "Dwarfs" and "Greenskins" are more ridiculous, it's like naming one of the Human Factions "Humans".
    Those named worked for TT, why not here? In the end you can make the change yourself very easily. If you don't want to learn to do that, just look at the number of mods that already do it. There really is no outstanding issue here.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,640Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Tayvar said:

    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Karl Franz is the Emperor in name only at the beginning of the Campaign, Karl Franz is in fact only the Elector Count of Reikland at the beginning of the Campaign, but in late game the name 'the Empire' is usually fitting, unless Karl Franz is about to lose. Main Faction names like "Dwarfs" and "Greenskins" are more ridiculous, it's like naming one of the Human Factions "Humans".
    Those named worked for TT, why not here?
    Because the Tabletop is Custom Battles Only? Gameplay-Wise, with no playable campaign map.
  • PetromirPetromir Senior Member Posts: 2,151Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    Nemox said:

    Tayvar said:

    Krunch said:

    A poll with a middleground is a crap poll. You want to see how people feel when given 2 options, giving them a middle ground is a bad idea for polling. Remember, this is a poll, not a referendum or vote, it is just seeing general opinion not deciding on something so a middle ground is unecessary.

    Agreed. If I had to choose between changing main faction names or not, my vote would be no. I like it the way it is, and it doesn't make sense for some factions: Franz is not the Emperor of Reikland, he is the Emperor of all provinces.
    Karl Franz is the Emperor in name only at the beginning of the Campaign, Karl Franz is in fact only the Elector Count of Reikland at the beginning of the Campaign, but in late game the name 'the Empire' is usually fitting, unless Karl Franz is about to lose. Main Faction names like "Dwarfs" and "Greenskins" are more ridiculous, it's like naming one of the Human Factions "Humans".
    Those named worked for TT, why not here?
    Because the Tabletop is Custom Battles Only? Gameplay-Wise, with no playable campaign map.
    No campaign systems were ever published unless of course you live in the real world where there were a number of systems published by GW. Narrative, map, and a a number of other systems were explored in GW publications.
  • Ork_HistorianOrk_Historian Posts: 10Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    All of you, great responses and great counter arguments. Thank you blaat for linking the mod, I will use this.
    It's awesome to see some good arguments from both sides, and really it just comes down to a small quality of life and more immersive little change. Some people find it more immersive to play as the Empire, some find it more immersive to play as Reikland, and ultimately numbers will decide what the popular opinion is. Of course, this does not guarantee change by any stretch, but I thought it would be a useful bit of information for the dev team, and the community to have, should this topic ever come up.


    Cheers!
  • SindrissSindriss Posts: 417Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    There is definitely room for improvement over the current mess. It's absurd having armies like Dwarves and Clan Angrund existing in the same campaign. Are Clan Angrund not Dwarves? They should keep the original names but just as cultures on the selection menu. People saying it's for noobs is a poor excuse. It's perfectly ok to be unfamiliar with an army. That's what the introductions are for and theres a description of the faction when you click on them. It's not like those completely new to Warhammer are going to know the difference between Empire and Brettonia and it's not like that's a big problem.
  • mahboi1mahboi1 Member Posts: 773Registered Users
    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.
    Sigmar wills it!
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